Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
OWC's Upcoming Thunderbolt 5 Hub Adds Three More Thunderbolt 5 Ports to Latest Macs
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
is the dock being discussed a TB5 dock? What is your meaning of 'similar', 'not at all the same?'
UGREEN Revodok 105 USB C Hub 5 in 1 Multiport Adapter 4K HDMI, 100W Power Delivery, 3 USB-A Data Ports, USB C Dongle for MacBook Pro/Air, iPad Pro, iMac, iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max, XPS, Thinkpad
UGREEN 5-in-1 USB C Hub With a 4K HDMI port, a 100W USB-C PD port, a 5 Gbps USB-A data port, and two 480 Mbps USB-A ports. Extra 2 USB-A 2.0 ports are perfectly connected to your keyboards and mice.
www.amazon.com
A similar USB dock for 12 bucks.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
UGREEN Revodok 105 USB C Hub 5 in 1 Multiport Adapter 4K HDMI, 100W Power Delivery, 3 USB-A Data Ports, USB C Dongle for MacBook Pro/Air, iPad Pro, iMac, iPhone 15 Pro/Pro Max, XPS, Thinkpad
UGREEN 5-in-1 USB C Hub With a 4K HDMI port, a 100W USB-C PD port, a 5 Gbps USB-A data port, and two 480 Mbps USB-A ports. Extra 2 USB-A 2.0 ports are perfectly connected to your keyboards and mice.www.amazon.com
A similar USB dock for 12 bucks.
Again, I don't think that word means what you think it means. A dock that lets me crawl along with my 1990's usb A mouse and keyboard but provides no power to my lap top or a single video connection beyond 30hz 4k, is just not even close to similar to a dock that provides 145 watts of power, speeds up to 120 g/s (versus 5), multiple modern usb-C compatible ports, and can connect multiple 8k displays, and a fan to keep things cool. It's just apples to oranges. You will no doubt say, 'but the $12 hub does all I need to do', and I say, 'great', but it doesn't do what someone that wants to connect multiple high speed devices while being powered can do. And that is why they pay more. Have a nice Amazon day!
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
Yes. I made that mistake at first, too. First off, I'd been waiting for OWC (or another reputable dock maker besides Kensington, which already has one out) to bring out a TB5 dock, and secondly, the size of OWC's new TB5 hub is large enough I instinctively assumed it was a dock. To me, docks tend to offer multiple USB-A and USB-C, at least one HDMI and maybe a DisplayPort, an ethernet jack and an SD card reader (a few even had an internal drive bay). A hub...is more limited.
I'm curious...how many people need to add 2 TB5 (and 1 USB-A) port to their new M4Pro or M4Max Mac?
I suspect mainly some pro. users?
Most Thunderbolt hubs only have 3 extra Thunderbolt ports and one host port
This is normal
Most of the ones I have seen, often have like an HDMI or some other USB etc, I hadn't seen or payed close attention and see like a 100% Thunder bolt Hub, I have seen "Docks" mostly I think...
Reason why is I haven't hit the TB Port limit, until lately, even on my CalDigit Dock I am maxed out (finally)...
This looks cool, it just reminds me of the old school days where I had an actual Firewire Hub! It was basically called a 2-1 Firewire Hub, I think it was called FireHub.
That's not about math, but about your post very much not making this clear...
In any case, the article's headline is wrong - attaching a three port hub into one of the ports adds two ports, not three.
My post had two possible interpretations, one made sense and one didn't, you chose to correct me based on the one that didn't. You may notice I mentioned exactly 5 ports...
I frankly didn't care to make it unambiguous because whoever invested their time into correcting what was clearly a joke could have probably spent it by interpreting the right way.
Anyway, yes, the title is ambiguous at best, but the adapter technically adds three ports and takes one. Not easy to explain in a title though, if it said "adds two ports" it may have been interpreted as just having two, I guess.
The article makes it clear though.
To be fair, not that this diminishes your main point in any way, the dock @Corefile linked does charge the laptop with up to 95W. But... Trust a $12 device from a brand of cheap and often shoddy products to hand 95W to my rather expensive laptop? Nope.
Only if you plug in a USB-C PD adapter to the adapter. It’s not self-powered like docks are (they plug into the wall).
So these portable adapters are useful for portable situations (ie not near a wall outlet) but docks have the advantage of just plug in, no other power adapter needed because you have to use the one it comes with to use it at all.
It's the same size as their previous Thunderbolt 2/3/4 docks, so it will stack nicely with them, if that's something one would want to do (probably not).
It doesn't have more ports than their Thunderbolt 4 hub, so why the extra size? Does it need that space for a larger heat sink?
Most Thunderbolt 4 hubs/docks allowed connecting two Apple Studio Displays or Apple Pro Displays XDR (they use HBR2 x4 with DSC to achieve 5K60 or 6K60).
Even a Thunderbolt 3 dock (Titan Ridge) could do it (but you might loose USB 3.x on one of the displays).
I think you'll get TB5 speed at the ports on the dock, but you will be limited to TB4 data bandwidth from the host. This is not useful, unless you consider replacing the Thunderbolt 5 hub with something like a Thunderbolt 5 version of the Blackmagic eGPU or Sonnet eGPU Breakaway Puck RX 5500 XT/5700 which could use the extra bandwidth for DisplayPort data from the eGPU (except Apple Silicon Macs don't support eGPUs and PCs don't like this kind of eGPU and Apple might not update Intel macOS for Thunderbolt 5 hubs/docks/eGPUs?).
OWC today announced its new Thunderbolt 5 Hub, one of the first accessories to support Intel's latest Thunderbolt standard, and offering Thunderbolt 5 compatibility with Apple's new Mac mini and MacBook Pro Models with M4 Pro and M4 Max chips.
The hub converts a single Thunderbolt port into three Thunderbolt 5 ports and one USB-A port, and delivers up to 80Gb/s bi-directional data transfer speeds. It can achieve speeds up to twice as fast as Thunderbolt 4, with bandwidth up to 120Gb/s available for display connections, and supports connecting up to three 8K displays at 60Hz with Display Stream Compression, making it suitable for demanding visual workflows.
In terms of charging output, the hub provides up to 140W power delivery, which is enough for a 16-inch MacBook Pro, while the aluminum enclosure features passive cooling for silent operation.
OWC is keen to emphasize backward compatibility with Thunderbolt 3/4 and USB-C devices, allowing users to connect both newer and legacy peripherals. The hub also enables the creation of three separate device daisy chains that can operate independently.
The OWC Thunderbolt 5 Hub is available for pre-order at $189.99 from the company's website and will begin shipping in December. OWC announced a new Thunderbolt 5 external SSD earlier this month.
Article Link: OWC's Upcoming Thunderbolt 5 Hub Adds Three More Thunderbolt 5 Ports to Latest Macs
An OWC Thunderbolt 5 hub is a Wait-And-See product. I've bought more than one regrettable Thunderbolt product from OWC, and have read so many complaints from other users.
A CalDigit Thunderbolt 5 hub is a Must Buy.
If I had a boy of a certain age, this would be a Must Buy. It looks like a caped crimefighter's wheels should.
Alas, my girls are 25 and 27 and I have to call the youngest Staff Sergeant.
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
To be equally fair, and I think this does somewhat diminish your point (smiles), the $12 hub mentioned provides power in the same way a meal is free, assuming you provide your own food. The hub is not actually supplying the power with its own power supply, but more accurately its a pass through from a power supply you provide... Its designed thus so as to not take up a charging port on your computer as back in the dark days between MagSafe the original and MagSafe the new, MacBook Airs only had two ports (and before that one!), and one had to be used for power (if you wanted to charge). I totally agree with you that one has to be careful not to be penny wise but pound foolish with these cheap amazon products, though I am guilty of that myself from time to time.
I'm not sure why people keep saying this. This hub has four Thunderbolt 5 ports, not three, and so it does "add" three if you consider the net number of additional ports (i.e, taking away one for the upstream connection), as the article headline must be doing. That seems like a reasonable interpretation to me. (I'm even ignoring USB-A since most discussions are scoped specifically to Thunderbolt.)
Am I missing something, or did people just not look at both sides of the device?
EDIT: OK, I'm failing to account for the loss of another port on the Mac itself (not just the hub) as the other side of the upstream connection. So with that included, that count makes sense. But the article's characterization of this setup still seems reasonable to me...
Last edited:
You forget that it takes two ports to connect a hub.I'm not sure why people keep saying this. This hub has four Thunderbolt 5 ports, not three, and so it does "add" three if you consider the net number of additional ports (i.e, taking away one for the upstream connection), as the article headline must be doing. That seems like a reasonable interpretation to me. (I'm even ignoring USB-A since most discussions are scoped specifically to Thunderbolt.)
Am I missing something, or did people just not look at both sides of the device?
The fourth port you mentioned is not usable - it is taken away just as the upstream connection is taken away since they are connected together.
Before: One usable port:
Mac -> Mac Thunderbolt port output 1
After: Three usable ports:
Mac -> Mac Thunderbolt port output 1 -> Hub Thunderbolt Port input -> Thunderbolt Hub -> Hub Thunderbolt Port output 1, Hub Thunderbolt Port output 2, Hub Thunderbolt Port output 3
Increase in usable ports: 3 - 1 = 2.
In other words:
Before: Mac(1) = 1 usable port
After: Mac(1) + Hub(4) - Connection(2) = 3 usable ports
Net change: 3 - 1 = 2
People did not look at both sides of the device. Sorry.I'm not sure why people keep saying this. This hub has four Thunderbolt 5 ports, not three, and so it does "add" three if you consider the net number of additional ports (i.e, taking away one for the upstream connection), as the article headline must be doing. That seems like a reasonable interpretation to me. (I'm even ignoring USB-A since most discussions are scoped specifically to Thunderbolt.)
Am I missing something, or did people just not look at both sides of the device?
I've heard good things about the CalDigit TS4 dock Verge Review but don't have direct experience so can't vouch for it (I've always found long term YMMV)...
"Good news" is my need for a dock has over time been eliminated
Thanks. The CalDigit site simply says "sold out" for their current (or most recent) TB dock, which doesn't bode well for the health of the company.
I have an old LG 5K that doesn't support DSC. An uncompressed 5K@60hz stream eats up pretty much all the DisplayPort bandwidth on TB3/TB4/USB4 connection. What I'm really interested in is if a TB5 hub can distribute the 3x extra DisplayPort bandwidth you get with TB5/USB4v2 across older TB3/TB4 devices so I can hook up more old monitors to one port.
*** TB4 and USB4v1 are EXACTLY identical to TB3 as far as their on-the-wire connection. The differences between TB3, TB4, and USB4v1 are in how they are licensed and a small difference in minimum requirements(e.g. TB3 requires hubs to support at least 3 ports and TB4 requires at least 4 ports... although most TB3 hosts support more than 3 ports). TB4 is a strict superset of the requirements of USB4 and TB3.
**** TB5 and USB4v2 are likewise related where TB5 is a strict superset of USB4v2 and where USB4's optional compatibility with TB4 is guaranteed.
***** USB4 certified hosts are NOT required to work with USB3 devices as anything but USB2 degraded devices, but all Thunderbolt hosts are required to support USB3. This is supposed to make USB4 more economical.
*** TB4 and USB4v1 are EXACTLY identical to TB3 as far as their on-the-wire connection. The differences between TB3, TB4, and USB4v1 are in how they are licensed and a small difference in minimum requirements(e.g. TB3 requires hubs to support at least 3 ports and TB4 requires at least 4 ports... although most TB3 hosts support more than 3 ports). TB4 is a strict superset of the requirements of USB4 and TB3.
**** TB5 and USB4v2 are likewise related where TB5 is a strict superset of USB4v2 and where USB4's optional compatibility with TB4 is guaranteed.
***** USB4 certified hosts are NOT required to work with USB3 devices as anything but USB2 degraded devices, but all Thunderbolt hosts are required to support USB3. This is supposed to make USB4 more economical.
Last edited:
Yup. An LG UltraFine 5K is ≈ 30 Gbps which leaves ≈ 10 Gbps for transmit while receive is mostly unaffected.
With Thunderbolt 5, after connecting an LG UltraFine 5K, you could get 50 Gbps transmit and 80 Gbps receive. Or you could get 90 Gbps transmit and 40 Gbps receive. Probably the former makes more sense.
How does Thunderbolt 5 determine when it should use the asymmetric 120/40 Gbps transmit/receive mode instead of the symmetric 80/80 Gbps mode?
Does Thunderbolt 5 ever choose an asymmetric 40/120 Gbps transmit/receive mode?
How often does it change modes?
The limit for displays is determined by how many DisplayPort inputs the host Thunderbolt controller has.
Apple Silicon M4 Pro Thunderbolt 5 controllers are still limited to two DisplayPort inputs each? This means a Thunderbolt 5 dock is limited to one LG UltraFine 5K and no other displays.
Apple does not state this limit in the Mac tech specs. OWC and Kensington state this limit in their Thunderbolt 5 hub/dock tech specs.
Apple Silicon M4 Max Thunderbolt 5 controllers have three DisplayPort inputs according to Kensington Thunderbolt 5 tech specs (but they only mention MacBook models).
Actually, OWC only mentions dual display support for M1,M2,M3 Macs - it doesn't say anything about triple display or M4.... So if you want tech specs for OWC Thunderbolt 5 hub, then look at tech specs for Kensington Thunderbolt 5 dock.
Intel PCs will have Thunderbolt 5 controllers with 3 DisplayPort inputs so a Thunderbolt 5 dock can connect one LG UltraFine 5K display and another display.
https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/accessories/thunderboltex-5/
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/THUNDERBOLTS-5#kf
USB4v1 uses 40 Gbps while TB4 uses 41.25 Gbps on the wire.
USB4v1 has optional Thunderbolt support.
TB4 supports USB4v1.
TB5 docks should be able to support USB 3.2 gen 2x2 (20 Gbps). OWC mentions this (names it USB-C). However, this can only work if USB tunnelling is not used since the Apple Silicon USB controllers that are used for USB tunnelling are limited to USB 3.1 gen 2 (10 Gbps). If Apple doesn't disable USB tunnelling for Thunderbolt 5 docks, then you can disable it by putting a Thunderbolt 3 dock between the Thunderbolt 5 dock and the Mac but you'll loose the 80 or 120 Gbps modes of Thunderbolt 5.