Panther and iChat

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret reports that Apple will not be seeding "Panther" (10.3) builds until after MWSF. They also report that 10.4 will be code-named "Merlot".

Macnews.net.tc, however, claims that 10.3 will be released in July, alongside Quictkime 6.5 and iChat 2.

 

[fuge]

wonder

haven't upgraded to 10.2 (Jaguar) yet so I'm wondering what the new features will be and if I should wait. Of course waiting is just an excuse that one could use to never move forward. Anyone know what Panther will entail and what quicktime 6.5 is going to feature?

first post?

 

[nuckinfutz]

Improved Audio

I know that Presonus makers of Audio Interfaces and other Pro products has been telling OSX users that mLAN(Audio/Midi over Firewire) won't be available until 10.3.

I haven't read much else about what's in 10.3. I expect some hefty architecture changes(low level) and updates to many of the iApps.

 

[Bradcoe]

I wonder about $$$

Will this upgrade to 10.3 cost money?? And don't just say yes because Jaguar (10.2) cost money. I don't think this is a fair reason. If it does cost $ and Apple releases it less than a year after Jaguar (before July/August 2003) then I'm going to seriously recondiser my views of Apple. I love their current pricing scheme behind OS X server with its unlimited client liscenese ability. Lets have at least a year between $129.00 OS upgrade costs.

 

[drastik]

Re: I wonder about $$$

Originally posted by Bradcoe
Will this upgrade to 10.3 cost money?? And don't just say yes because Jaguar (10.2) cost money. I don't think this is a fair reason. If it does cost $ and Apple releases it less than a year after Jaguar (before July/August 2003) then I'm going to seriously recondiser my views of Apple. I love their current pricing scheme behind OS X server with its unlimited client liscenese ability. Lets have at least a year between $129.00 OS upgrade costs.

I think price will depend on what they introduce, as it did with 10.2. SInce apple has been very public abpout innovating out of rough times, and haredware has been getting regular updates, my guess is big innovation on the software side, so it will probably cost money.

It will be almost a year, once it ships, I'm sure. Thing is, I'm thrilled with Jaguar, I can't beleive I didn't get it the day it came out. If Panther is the Same, sign me up.

 

[e-coli]

10.3 will have to be awfully compelling for me to make another switch. I love jaguar. i can't possible imgine what they could do to make it much better.

well...maybe a bit faster, but...

 

[Bear]

Originally posted by e-coli
10.3 will have to be awfully compelling for me to make another switch. I love jaguar. i can't possible imgine what they could do to make it much better.

well...maybe a bit faster, but...

I know this is a minor point, but going from 10.2 to 10.3 is an upgrade, not a switch.

Hopefully apps that broke between 10.1 and 10.2 won't have the same problem going from 10.2 to 10.3.

 

[rugby]

My professional opinion is that 10.3 will be free. 10.1 was a free update and then 10.2 cost money. If they continue the pattern they're on 10.3 should be free.

Of course that's taken with a mighty big dose of "who really knows"

 

[pimentoLoaf]

Jaguar speeds up graphics processing a helluva lot... a noticeable improvement was seen on my 500mhz dual-USB iBook playing Links 2002. That game used to jerk around alot, prompting me to use os9 for it. Since upgrading, the animation is really smooth on osX -- even with full galleries under Tournament mode.

Panther won't allow booting into os9. One program, Photoshop Elements 1.0, loses it's menus when run under Classic, and other quirky things happen under different programs. Which brings me to...

How many of you would like to wager even odds that Quark, not yet ready for osX, is the reason that Panther was pushed back six months? Anyone have it? What happens when run under Classic?

 

[jfruh]

What with all the debate on Mac OS X pricing, I wonder if anyone has ever sat down and reviewed the pricing for classic Mac OS updates.

Back in the days when the OS was bit more stable (and I was a bit less obsessive), I kept the OS 7.5.x that came on my PowerCenter 150 all the way until 8.5 came out (which I had to pay for). I seem to recall that friends who had 8.0 also had to pay for 8.5.

I've been using OS X as my primary OS since the public beta. 10.2 does it for me as far as I'm concerned. My machine is 2 years old at this point and I don't see much reason to pay more for the OS when I'll probably just get a new Mac in the next couple years anyway. I'll get all the free upgrades Apple puts out of course (including "free+$19.95 shipping and handling") but won't bother paying for the new stuff absent something REALLY compelling. I would hope that the next couple iterations of the iApps (particularly iChat, which is nice but rough) won't require a paid OS upgrade.

jf

 

[crackpip]

Pricing

Phil Schiller said during an interview when 10.2 was announced as a pay upgrade, that apple will release one major free upgrade inbetween each pay upgrade, which as rugby pointed out is the schedule apple has used for quite a while. So 10.3 will be free.

crackpip

 

[tpjunkie]

pimento loaf-

What do you mean Panther won't allow booting into OS 9? As far as I have heard, its going to be the new hardware that will not permit booting into 9.

 

[springscansing]

Yeah, what's his about Panther not allowing you to boot to 9? How could software do that anyway? Could I not just old option at startup and select 9? Unless all my audio apps are updated soon, I still need to be able to boot to 9, and probably will need to for the next 6 months at least!

 

[os4]

booting OS9?

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf


Panther won't allow booting into os9. One program, Photoshop Elements 1.0, loses it's menus when run under Classic, and other quirky things happen under different programs. Which brings me to...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the HARDWARE that Apple will release in 2003 will not boot into OS9. I have heard nothing that speculates that a version of OSX will somehow disallow a computer booting into 9.

 

[springscansing]

Re: booting OS9?

Originally posted by os4


Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the HARDWARE that Apple will release in 2003 will not boot into OS9. I have heard nothing that speculates that a version of OSX will somehow disallow a computer booting into 9.

This is what I've heard as well. Having 10.3 canabalize OS 9 would be ridiculous.

 

[Unicron]

OS Dates & Cost

for the last 5 years, Apple has mainted this pricining schedule for OS Upgrades:

OS 8 released late 1997

OS 8.5 released late 1998 $99 upgrade

OS 9 released late 1999 $99 upgrade

OS X beta released late 2000 $30 upgrade

OS X 10.0 released early 2001 $129 upgrade

OS X 10.1 released late 2001 $19 upgrade (or free)

OS X 10.2 released late 2002 $129 upgrade

Hope that clears things up for you...

It's 1-1.5 years between full paid upgrades.

So yes, 10.3 will be free (just like the 10.1 update was. Go pick you update disc at an Apple Store or pay $19 for shipping from Apple online)

 

[Billicus]

Just a thought - but how soon will Apple's operating systems become too complicated to run on older G3 processors - like the original iMac, etc.?

 

[pimentoLoaf]

As I understand it, hardware has nothing to do with the booting process, as this is a software "switch".

Go under the Apple Menu and select System Preferences, then Startup Disk. os9 & osX on my drive are logical (or software), not physical (or hardware) drives: the system is fooled into thinking they are separate hard drives. So... it's just a question of changing something in software that determines what gets booted into.

It's similar to when one puts Linux on a PC: at bootup, a menu will pop-up asking if you'd prefer Linux or Windows; no hardware is involved.

Not booting into os9 for Panther was always my assumption, based on the various threads that went on a few months back. This is the first I've heard that the system's chips were involved.

 

[Mr. Dibbs]

soft controlled booting

::Slaps his forehead:: OY! NO NO no.... you got it all mixed up. being a person who watches every Jobs keynote webcast, I can speak from the mouth of the horse on this matter. first, to paraphrase Jobs, the reason macs will not boot into OS9 starting 2003 is simply the fact that apple is likely [radically perhaps, a la gigawire, etc...] to change/upgrade the hardware for all mac computers, and Jobs' executive decision, he said himself that apple will stop developing drivers for the classic OS for the new computers which will be released post 2002. for anyone who knows about the option key boot up, they will recognize that if they have a hard disk with only os 9 on it, they can boot into that os on that disk without messing with any software. the real key is in the firmware. Jobs also made rather redundant assurances that for all the classic and quark users "your old macs will boot into classic just fine." because the classic OS has drivers which will allegedly run any machine shipped until 2003, excluding the educational boxes...any machine shipped pree '03 will run nine.
The key to apple's strategy was said by jobs himself in that apple has been spread out way too thin because it has had to develop and fix problems on two entirely different platforms, X and 9, and that the company is one again going to focus it's rescources on the future, meaning Panther and X, and is leaving classic to have the dirt clods hit it's casket, which was rolled out in the WWDC a while ago. hope this helps. --Dibbs

 

[zimv20]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
Quark... Anyone have it? What happens when run under Classic?

runs fine for me. i'm running an old version, 3.32.

and i can print straight from the app (indeed, any os9 app), [complaint] something i cannot do from osx (stupid epson won't update their laser printer drivers -- and no, i couldn't get gimp print to work for it either).
[/complaint]

 

[Bear]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
As I understand it, hardware has nothing to do with the booting process, as this is a software "switch".

Actually the software process you describe sounds about right. However, the OS has to know how to talk with the hardware. If there is a change to a hardware component, it may prevent an older OS from knowing how to boot.

This happens with all OS's and computers. So, it is quite possibly Apple will be releasing hardware that requires a change to OS 9 if you want OS 9 bootable.

The bulk of these changes happen when the processor is changed for a different model. (G3 versus G4 for example.) As well as when the support chips are modified.

Also, remember testing OS 9 on new hardware (even if there are no changes required) takes up additional resources that Apple probably wants to use elsewhere. Compatability mode testing also takes resources.

 

[backdraft]

Originally posted by e-coli
10.3 will have to be awfully compelling for me to make another switch. I love jaguar. i can't possible imgine what they could do to make it much better.

well...maybe a bit faster, but...

Here are a couple of ideas that I found on the net that WOULD improve OS X.

http://www.applelinks.net/juan_m

It wouldn't be a bad idea to send these in to apple.

 

[FelixDerKater]

I sure hope that iChat 2.0 doesn't require 10.3, as iChat 1.0 required 10.2. That is worse than Microsoft tactics. You can download MSN Messenger updates without buying a whole OS upgrade.

 

[hobie]

Originally posted by zimv20


and i can print straight from the app (indeed, any os9 app), [complaint] something i cannot do from osx (stupid epson won't update their laser printer drivers -- and no, i couldn't get gimp print to work for it either).
[/complaint]

Try to do an international search, I've heard from X native Epson drivers in Germany and France.

 

[jholzner]

Originally posted by FelixDerKater
I sure hope that iChat 2.0 doesn't require 10.3, as iChat 1.0 required 10.2. That is worse than Microsoft tactics. You can download MSN Messenger updates without buying a whole OS upgrade.

Well, I don't agree that it's even similar to Microsoft tactics. iChat uses new things not available in 10.1.x. iChat utilizes rendezvous as well as the new addressbook. So, you need 10.2 to use iChat...Apple wasn't just trying to screw you over.