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Panther for pros?
- Thread starter pbeach
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pbeach said:
Well, this is not Panther's fault. A B&W G3 is DOG slow to begin with, especially when you're running something as processor & RAM intensive as Panther. I wouldn't throw the book at Panther until you've tried it on a more modern Mac. And having 20 years of Mac experience adds up to nil once you move from the old MacOS into MacOSX. OSX is UNIX and nothing like pervious versions of (non-OSX) MacOS.
But I'm glad that you're happy you're back with OS9.
pbeach said:
Quite true. But a lot of them that I encounter seem to be on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" path, not the "OSX is too slow to use in a production environment" path. But I'm sure I encounter 1/100 of the graphic designers that you do. Another angle is the some of the necessary software that some publication pros use totally BLOW in OSX. Font management software people, I'm looking in your direction! Again, this isn't because of Panther. It's poor coding and slow bug fixing on the part of the developers.
I'd love to see some "real world" comparisons of doing the same tasks in OS9 versus OSX.
Yes, I've not heard good things about Illustrator in OSX. But I've no experience with any version of Photoshop after PS7 in OSX.
Maybe one of the things that you learn as you use OSX is that it's a multi-threaded OS. So you can actually do a task that requires the processor's attention (or is otherwise "slow"), and switch to another app to do other things while you wait. Something you cannot do in <=OS9.
Increasing your productivity!
After using OSX as my primary OS since 10.1, and finally converting (weening?) 250+ users from OS9 (some kicking and screaming), I would never want to go back to OS9. When I am forced to use OS9, I'm quite unhappy. Where are the logs man?!? Where is my command line?!?
Maybe one of the things that you learn as you use OSX is that it's a multi-threaded OS. So you can actually do a task that requires the processor's attention (or is otherwise "slow"), and switch to another app to do other things while you wait. Something you cannot do in <=OS9.
Increasing your productivity!
After using OSX as my primary OS since 10.1, and finally converting (weening?) 250+ users from OS9 (some kicking and screaming), I would never want to go back to OS9. When I am forced to use OS9, I'm quite unhappy. Where are the logs man?!? Where is my command line?!?
you need a little perspective...
Try running Windows XP on a PIII. OS X wasn't made to run on a G3. It'll work, but as a 'professional' you should know you use the right tool for the job period, no exceptions. Get with the times OS X is so much better than OS 9 ever was or could be! (except for print window, dammit!)
To each their own.
-j
p.s. you have some really awesome work, it's ashame you don't get a mac that compares with your windows machine for a real comparison.
Try running Windows XP on a PIII. OS X wasn't made to run on a G3. It'll work, but as a 'professional' you should know you use the right tool for the job period, no exceptions. Get with the times OS X is so much better than OS 9 ever was or could be! (except for print window, dammit!)
To each their own.
-j
p.s. you have some really awesome work, it's ashame you don't get a mac that compares with your windows machine for a real comparison.
pbeach said:
(like a lot of people) I am a design professional who uses my computers for hard work, every day. I'm not sure what pbeach is smoking, but I have found Panther to be a lot more productive than 9.x once I sunk into it a bit. It is not sluggish like Jaguar, even on a G4 450. Haven't had any problems with Illustrator or Photoshop whatsoever. The only company I have a gripe with right now is Macromedia- for more than one reason, but mostly because Fireworks MX is buggy as hell.
Basically, Apple makes no bones about the fact that X is a more demanding OS, such is the way of progress, but the OS itself is very beneficial to productivity if you know what you're doing. I was once clinging to 9 for dear life also, I finally made the leap at Panther, and there's no longer any comparison.
Basically, Apple makes no bones about the fact that X is a more demanding OS, such is the way of progress, but the OS itself is very beneficial to productivity if you know what you're doing. I was once clinging to 9 for dear life also, I finally made the leap at Panther, and there's no longer any comparison.
Have you tried doing a clean install of panther using the custom install option and only installing the bare minimums. Some programs that you wont need will still be there, but you could always delete them. Like some have said, i don't think that apple creating a bare bones os would improve speeds on the apps you are talking about. If a program is running noticably slow in panther then it is most likely the developers fault not a slow os. I find photoshop cs to be far more usable than 6 was in os 9. I have only used freehand in os 9 and it ran fairly well.
The Adobe CS Suite is sluggish at best on my 1Ghz G4, I don't know how you got anything done. Panther on the other hand is quick and stable.
For the machine you are using I think 9.2 is the right choice, for newer machines Panther really is the way to go - okay, minus the Font problems.
For the machine you are using I think 9.2 is the right choice, for newer machines Panther really is the way to go - okay, minus the Font problems.
Non-QE Machine
One of the main problems you have with the B&W is that you can't use a Quartz Extreme capable graphics card in that machine. I use 2 Mac's - my home one is a Dual 500Mhz G4 with 896MB RAM and a Radeon 8500 video card - my work one is a Single 500MHz G4 with the stock ATI Rage 128 AGP card.
When I first got my dual 500, it "felt" about the same speed as my single processor one at work. (Although code compilation and some Final Cut Pro benchmarking showed the dual to be a lot faster.) Then I put the Radeon card in it, (which enabled Quartz Extreme), it was like putting JATO rockets on the thing!
I just wish I had opted for the Radeon 9000, it was near the same price and, from what I've read, doesn't suffer the same "sleep" issues that the 8500 does.
PS: BTW - Well written apps can be just as fast, if not faster in OS X. For some anecdotal evidence, compare the highly tunned RC5 crack client at distributed.net on OS 9 vs. OS X. Unless you're running something that's eating the CPU up, the OS X version is usually faster. The main problem, IMO, is all the carbon apps that were tuned for OS 8/9 but have been simply ported to OS X. If those developers will take the time to optimize their code for OS X, I think things will get much better. (I seem to remember Windows 95 having the same sort of problem with Win3.x, 16Bit apps running dog slow too.)
One of the main problems you have with the B&W is that you can't use a Quartz Extreme capable graphics card in that machine. I use 2 Mac's - my home one is a Dual 500Mhz G4 with 896MB RAM and a Radeon 8500 video card - my work one is a Single 500MHz G4 with the stock ATI Rage 128 AGP card.
When I first got my dual 500, it "felt" about the same speed as my single processor one at work. (Although code compilation and some Final Cut Pro benchmarking showed the dual to be a lot faster.) Then I put the Radeon card in it, (which enabled Quartz Extreme), it was like putting JATO rockets on the thing!
I just wish I had opted for the Radeon 9000, it was near the same price and, from what I've read, doesn't suffer the same "sleep" issues that the 8500 does.
PS: BTW - Well written apps can be just as fast, if not faster in OS X. For some anecdotal evidence, compare the highly tunned RC5 crack client at distributed.net on OS 9 vs. OS X. Unless you're running something that's eating the CPU up, the OS X version is usually faster. The main problem, IMO, is all the carbon apps that were tuned for OS 8/9 but have been simply ported to OS X. If those developers will take the time to optimize their code for OS X, I think things will get much better. (I seem to remember Windows 95 having the same sort of problem with Win3.x, 16Bit apps running dog slow too.)
You aren't still using 10.3.0, are you? Upgrade to 10.3.4 using Software Update if you haven't already - that will fix bugs in the initial Panther release.pbeach said: