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Panther on Track for September

I think HTML in email is a bad idea. More and more email programs are giving you the option of converting to text or bouncing the message since it is used by spammers to track valid accounts and activity, and it opens some security holes on the PC side of the fence in certain situations.

On a different note, I hope Apple takes its time with Panther. Get it right, so I don't have to wait for 10.3.1 or later. Usually, Apple can't release new goodies for me soon enough, but in this case, I am more than willing to wait.

Plus, it is smart for Apple. If there are terrible bugs, it'll make the major trade publications, and right now, they have a great differentiator vs. M$ that their products don't need patches every week. They need to keep the impression that Apple does things right and you get quality. (Plus, with the sales of the G5, they can wait until Q4 for the revenue.)
 
It's not the wait, it's the anticipation

I'm not in the market for a new mac. Got too many bills. And my iBook (16 VRAM) serves just fine with its added 512MB from Crucial.

But every day I rush to the rumor pages to see if any new rumors have popped up, any new indication of *when*...

I used to say, "Apple doesn't comment on unannounced or unreleased products." like ten times a day before keynotes... Of course I knew as little before a release then as I do now.

Come on, ship damnu. :)

I need my fix. ;)

*joking*

Jaedreth
 
Agreed, I want Apple to add polish to Panther and not let the cat out of the cage until it is finely groomed, the claws nicely manicured, the fangs nice and sharp, and the wits to back it up. I can wait as long as Apple needs to make sure Panther is exactly like we all hope it can be. I'd be lying if I said I'm not dying to have it right now, but not at the expense of bugs being overlooked at the sake of a quick GM copy being pressed.
 
Sorry to disagree about HTML composition in Mail.app - but -

I have to disagree with those of you that don't like HTML email composition...

Ok - it's down to the individual - some like it - some don't. I happen to think that if used correctly, being able to write HTML email is a good thing.

Even in subtle ways - being able to make some text bold or italic can be useful. I'm not talking about full blown web-page-like emails...

At the very least we should be given the choice:

Plain Text or standards-based HTML
 
The biggest problem with HTML e-mail and why I leave it off on all e-mail is that 90% of the e-mail I receive is spam. With 95% of that going into my spam mailbox, the few that do get through I don't want to have to be bothered by seeing nude pictures in my e-mail. I never asked for them, and I certainly don't want them. Anyone who wants to send me HTML e-mail better send me a link to their webpage and not HTML embedded in the e-mail.
 
Re: Sorry to disagree about HTML composition in Mail.app - but -

Originally posted by DanUk2003
I have to disagree with those of you that don't like HTML email composition...

Ok - it's down to the individual - some like it - some don't. I happen to think that if used correctly, being able to write HTML email is a good thing.

Even in subtle ways - being able to make some text bold or italic can be useful. I'm not talking about full blown web-page-like emails...

At the very least we should be given the choice:

Plain Text or standards-based HTML
Click to expand...

You can do styles and font sizing without HTML.

Choice is good I agree, but sometimes it's better not to.

Perhaps somebody should create a standard for styled mail without HTML.
 
Re: Re: Sorry to disagree about HTML composition in Mail.app - but -

Originally posted by Blackcat
You can do styles and font sizing without HTML.
Click to expand...


I was not aware you could do styles without HTML (or Rich Text, which is proprietary_in Mail.app and doesn't show up on anything BUT Mail...)

I agree an in-between would be good...

But i still like sending lightly-formatted HTML email - it can look better than plain text if used appropriately and for the right reasons...


Like marmite - you love it or hate it!!
 
Re: Sorry to disagree about HTML composition in Mail.app - but -

Originally posted by DanUk2003
Even in subtle ways - being able to make some text bold or italic can be useful. I'm not talking about full blown web-page-like emails...

At the very least we should be given the choice:

Plain Text or standards-based HTML
Click to expand...

That's the beauty of rich text formatted e-mails. You can BOLD Italics Underline without needing the overhead of HTML. Honestly you really don't need HTML other then to make life easier and prettier. I mean really if you want to send a picture then attach it. If you want to send a link then plain text it and cut and paste. Does it take a few extra steps to get things done? Sure. But what’s the primary purpose of e-mail? Communication right? Its not like you can’t communicate through plain text. I’m of the opinion, as you said, ALL services be it yahoo groups, to credit card companies, to hotmail, to whatever should provide the option of doing Plain text, RTF, or HTML when composing an e-mail.
 
Re: Re: Sorry to disagree about HTML composition in Mail.app - but -

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
That's the beauty of rich text formatted e-mails. You can BOLD Italics Underline without needing the overhead of HTML.
Click to expand...


This is true - you can do it with Rich Text. Try writing a Rich Text email in Mail.app and viewing it in any other client e.g. Outlook etc...

It's formatted elements DO NOT show up and EVERYTHING appears as plain text.

ANSWER: HTML is standards-based whereas Rich Text (NOT "RTF" format BTW) is not a standard and if done in Mail.app only appears in Mail.app!
 
Re: Re: Sorry to disagree about HTML composition in Mail.app - but -

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
That's the beauty of rich text formatted e-mails. You can BOLD Italics Underline without needing the overhead of HTML. Honestly you really don't need HTML other then to make life easier and prettier. I mean really if you want to send a picture then attach it.
Click to expand...

I want to send pictures to my grandmother, and I am not going to train her to start double clicking on all sorts of unknown e-mail attachments. I'd also argue with the other people who want to create a new standard that does exactly the same thing that an existing one does. However, I'm not going to detail such arguments here, as this is completely off-topic.

I find it fascinating that Panther is getting such coverage in the Windows journals. It sounds like Panther will be the first MacOS that is more or less plug-and-play in a Windows network, which I find highly cool.
 
Slightly OT but not really:

Following the "Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn" article's link to videos of the Longhorn UI (right here)... what is up with these vids? I see windows that are rotating around and around and doing absolutely nothing useful. All these videos show is visual "tricks" that have NO applicable use.

If that's all that Panther has to contend with........
 
Twilight Zone

You have entered another Operating System. A System not only of Sight and Sound but of constantly rotating windows floating across the screen pointlessly where you can't see a damned thing you're doing. Welcome to Longhorn.

Sure, it looks cool that the compositing is *capable* of rendering such real time, but who the heck would ever do that? I don't want to snap my neck trying to keep track of what I'm typing.

I like my neck where it is.

Now, Panther's Expose, on the other hand. I can see everything I'm doing and switch windows easily and quickly.

Welcome to Mac OS X.


Jaedreth
 
Even those "cool" tricks seem to be pretty unimpressive...perhaps it's purely just to show the flexibility of the new graphics engine in Windows, but if they are going to be doing any effects like that, it definitely would make things even more annoying working with the GUI...although the "dizzy" effect might make a decent screen saver.
 
Re: Re: Doubtful

Originally posted by mj_1903
I think Apple could quite easily finish off the paint work in 3 weeks.

As for XCode, well thats a different story.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that, is Xcode flakey or missing great hunks of features? I have been itching to take it for a spin - don't tell me its a turkey!

BTW, I can't remember a thread that has gone sooo off topic. Someone start a html mail vs plain txt thread please, its gotta be a winner! Zealots of both persuasions, start your engines! ;)
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Yeah, Panther is definitely going to be cool.
Click to expand...
Those wave windows stuff are just as useless as the OSX minimize fx. I think this is just to show what is possible.
Anyway, in XP you have the possibility to turn off stupid gui-stuff you don't need. In OSX you have to install alot of 3party crap that doesn't work when you update the system.
OSX have alot to learn from XP and the other way around!
 
XCode vs Panther

Well, I'd rather be programming Panther than XCode. They do have to make XCode take advantage of the G5 architecture, and put plenty of hooks into it for the PPC 970 DIMD "Altivec" thingie, and make it run well on other computers too. Keep in mind, Codewarrior still compiles *far* faster. If you don't have an XServe cluster sitting around at home, then why use XCode? I mean besides it being better. *heh* They are trying to make XCode a speed demon, so that it's better in *every* way.

So yeah, I expect Panther to be done well before XCode.

Like I said, since they did a feature freeze, and the last developer seed was all bug fixes, I don't anticipate another developer seed, and I expect people from divergant groups on panther development to all be working together to hammer out the code as quickly as possible. They wouldn't have ended new features this early for a November or December release. Even if it isn't ready by September, it should be announced then, *with* a ship date, and miss Sept. by just a few hairs, say Oct. 5th.

However, they still could have it done *by* Apple Expo, if they pull enough people onto the job.

Jaedreth
 
If it is a matter of just hammering out the rest of the bugs and finishing the code, then lets hope all the developers testing Panther did a good job of logging all the bugs so Apple could make it as good as possible. I'd like to think they'd seed at least one more version to developers just to give it a more of a real world spin before it goes GM, just incase Apple misses a thing or two, though.
 
HTML *AND* stylized email are both evil

Originally posted by Booga
I want to send pictures to my grandmother, and I am not going to train her to start double clicking on all sorts of unknown e-mail attachments.
Click to expand...

Why? Complex HTML is just as much of a security issue as attachments...though of course, not for us Mac users.

Besides, with standard email, you can have JPEG and GIF attachments display in the email window without using HTML or stylized text.

And just to be clear, all forms of stylized text are evil...just not as bad as HTML.

For those who don't get it yet, let me ask what the correct font is, and what is the correct font size? What is the correct text color and background?

Unless you say Mishawaka, 9pt, black and white, then you're wrong.

Now obviously everyone else has their own "correct" answer. The problem is that there is no way of specifying styles such as bold, italic, or underline, without specifying the other attributes.

This means that the sender is going to tell the recipient what font, size and colors are correct for them to be reading the email.

This is the problem.

The recipient should specify these settings.

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if there wasn't so much abuse, but 99% of the HTML and stylized email I receive that isn't SPAM is in no way formatted other than making it harder to read due to font, size and color settings. In other words, for the occasional underline, bold or italic, I'm getting pink text on a red background in a 6 point exaggerated serif font.

It would be one thing if there was an absolute need for those attributes, but underlining, bold and italics use for calling out text can just as easily be accomplished with *asterisks* and CAPITALIZATION.

Most people don't realize why they should configure their clients to display MONOSPACED fonts and not specify any styles for the recipient. Once you realize how others will be reading your email (or as the case may be *not* reading your email) you'll probably change your mind about formatting it.

It's ironic that this debate is occurring in a Mac forum since the problem worsens as email is sent from one larger set of parameters that define the rendering of an email to a smaller. In other words we're already in the minority and due to rendering differences we're more affected by receiving email that uses a font, size and color which may look ok on Outlook with XP but is almost unreadable on a Mac with Mail or Entourage.

More info about all this at:
http://kevinJedwards.com/HTMLemail.html
 
Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
has there been an announcement of any deal for g5 purchasers where they'll get panther for 20 bucks or something? it would suck for G5's to be shipping in bulk in Sep and then a week or 2 later panther comes out for an additional 129...
Click to expand...

if you order from Powermax.com with Applecare they have said that they will include a free version of Panther when it comes out.
 
Yep Panther is going to be very cool. I'm looking forward to the speed increases as well as the multi-user login function - will be very useful when I have to share my PB with my wife!!
 
Originally posted by Mudbug

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,1140092,00.asp

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,1090247,00.asp

especially the third link - Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn!

heh
Click to expand...

I find it somewhat interesting that the site is comparing Panther to Longhorn. Even the site admits that it’s more accurate to compare it to XP since that is what is going to be going head to head with Panther for the time being. Heck Apple could be two revs down the road by the time Longhorn debuts. There is more then enough time to put Longhorn in its place. And the other beautiful thing is that MS keeps secrets about as well as Enron. More intentional and unintentional OS leaks are bound to happen between now and 2005 allowing Apple to get a good picture as to what the completion has up its sleeve and counter accordingly. I just wish Apple would do technology demos (Ya ya I know trade secrets and such.) as to what its future plans are. MS occasionally does this. I saw something on hand gestures to replace the mouse which was kinda cool. I’d kill to know what it has up its sleeve between now and 2005.
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If it is a matter of just hammering out the rest of the bugs and finishing the code, then lets hope all the developers testing Panther did a good job of logging all the bugs so Apple could make it as good as possible. I'd like to think they'd seed at least one more version to developers just to give it a more of a real world spin before it goes GM, just incase Apple misses a thing or two, though.
Click to expand...
I'm expecting a new seed either late this week or early next week, with another one around 10 - 14 days after that.

XCode was always planned to ship GM with Panther. The ADC site even had a 9/15/03 date for XCode availability, although I can't find the link anymore.
 
Link for XCode

Then likely it's not there anymore. :)

That is another consideration, release of Panther might be held up by completion of XCode.

I can't wait to test out XCode, it might make me break my vow to never program again. :)

I can't wait to transform my iBook with Panther. Finally, I will be able to let Shal use her user without quitting everything I have going.

Now, I *know* this won't be part of Panther, but what I want to see is a hot key to bring the computer to the login screen without interrupting any users. So let's say you have opened three users. Then you hit the key combination, and log in as >console.

Then you get your console going, log in as root (if you know what you're doing only!), and then once you have your background processes all set up, hit the command key, while in >console, it pops you back to the login screen, and you log into your admin user (though you never logged out) and you're right back into your gui users...

I know so many unix geeks that would *love* this.

Jaedreth
 
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