Paternalism in Apple Products/Making the switch from Windows

[HansDiag]

Hi, I'm thinking about replacing my Windows Machine with a MBP in near Future. I don't want to start a discussion about price-performance ratio, ideologies and so on, my biggest concern ist paternalism

My current machine is an Asus 13" Ultrabook - 4 years ago a top level machine and at about 1300$ one of the most expensive Laptops except for Macs What annoyed me since almost day 1 was the total lack of support - Asus throws in what feels like 20 new models a year and stops support on the earlier ones as soon as a new model comes out. At the same time they make it impossible for users to upgrade certain drivers - the processor and GPU can only be updated by asus approved intel-drivers instead of the plain intel drivers, and there are non because of said lack of support - so I'm stuck to 4 year old drivers and cant use certain features my system would be otherwise capable of.

Also, there are other "features" that i have no control over, like the auto-adjusting contrast-ratio on the display which is aweful for a normal user and catastrophic for my professional work. Could be fixed by installing a plain driver - only i cant.

So I have been thinking for a long time to finally try a MBP - because I wanted hardware and software from the same company, tuned in, and with updates and support for years (Surface Book hasnt been around that long). But after using iPhones for many years now and reading a lot about MBP in the last weeks, I'm not that sure any more. My iPhones either got close-to-bricked by updates or Apps stop working because i refuse to update the OS. And in the discussion about the MBP battery life i read about the lack of user-control over disabling the dGPU and background processes using more energy than displayed and thought to myself: as a customer, will I be at Apples mercy just as much as with any other manufacturer? Whats your opinion as long-time apple users? What do you think as a former windows user?

 

[kschendel]

If you want detailed control, pick the hardware you like and run Linux. That's going to be your only option if control is of top importance.

Macs are at least sort-of Unix based under the covers, although Apple's Mach implementation deviates in various subtle and unsubtle ways from other unixen. I occasionally use Windows, although as little as I can get away with, and its architecture seems much more monolithic and centralized. At least in theory, then, you should have more detailed control with a Mac. Whether that works out in practice is hard to quantify.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Whats your opinion as long-time apple users? What do you think as a former windows user?"

If you're obsessed with having "control", you're probably not going to like the Mac OS.

 

[HansDiag]

If you want detailed control, pick the hardware you like and run Linux. That's going to be your only option if control is of top importance.

Macs are at least sort-of Unix based under the covers, although Apple's Mach implementation deviates in various subtle and unsubtle ways from other unixen. I occasionally use Windows, although as little as I can get away with, and its architecture seems much more monolithic and centralized. At least in theory, then, you should have more detailed control with a Mac. Whether that works out in practice is hard to quantify.

I think linux wont be an option due to everday work with Adobe CC. Plus I think the experience wont be anywere near the original OS when it comes to drivers, gpu switching, battery life and such...

"Whats your opinion as long-time apple users? What do you think as a former windows user?"

If you're obsessed with having "control", you're probably not going to like the Mac OS.

obsessed is the wrong word, "concerned about" would be more like it. Of course there is more control in linux but is there more control over the OS and Hardware in Mac OS than in Windows?

 

[CreatorCode]

Paternalism is a human trait. Computers don't have it. Not even if they're Macs.

If you can identify concrete questions (like "Can I change X? How do I change Y? Is there an option to adjust Z?") you can get useful answers.

Those answers may well be "No, you can't. That option doesn't exist." But at least you'll have a meaningful answer.

If you keep asking broad philosophical questions, you're guaranteed to get bad answers.

Apple's marketing often presents its products as being "magical" or having other metaphysical qualities. I think that's misleading and counterproductive, but unfortunately Apple doesn't listen to me.

 

[HansDiag]

If you can identify concrete questions (like "Can I change X? How do I change Y? Is there an option to adjust Z?") you can get useful answers.

i guess you are right. So here are some concrete problems I had using PC and iPhone on a daily basis:

1. Closing the Laptops Lid without having it go to sleep, still not possible on MBP?
2. Can you turn off wifi but keep on LAN?
3. Can you control all auto-adjusting on the screen and keyboard backlight?
4. Can you get the latest security fixes without updating the entire OS?
5. Will (any/some/major) Apps just stop working because I'm not on the latest OS? (Like a mandatory app-update which itself requires an OS update)
6. Is it common to find older versions of software somewhere outside the app-store in the mac-world (like it is with windows)
7. Can i set a maximum battery charge in the Bios (or elsewhere)?

P
If you keep asking broad philosophical questions, you're guaranteed to get bad answers.

Still I'm interested in the "overall" apple-experience. Ive seen the bloating battery-thing on friends MBPs and their struggle to get it fixed and heard much about apple only fixing obvious engineering-mistakes after class-action lawsuits. On the other hand I heard often times that they have the best support and are very accomodating. Hard to come to a conclusion...

 

[chabig]

1. Closing the Laptops Lid without having it go to sleep, still not possible on MBP?
2. Can you turn off wifi but keep on LAN?
3. Can you control all auto-adjusting on the screen and keyboard backlight?
4. Can you get the latest security fixes without updating the entire OS?
5. Will (any/some/major) Apps just stop working because I'm not on the latest OS? (Like a mandatory app-update which itself requires an OS update)
6. Is it common to find older versions of software somewhere outside the app-store in the mac-world (like it is with windows)
7. Can i set a maximum battery charge in the Bios (or elsewhere)?

1. Always possible on Mac, if it's on AC power with external keyboard, trackpad (mouse) and display connected.
2. Yes of course. You have total control over network interfaces.
3. Yes, you have manual control in addition to auto.
4. Not sure what you mean. No, I guess, as security updates are issued as OS updates.
5. Rarely, and then only about 4-5 years later. I can't even think of any.
6. Not for App Store apps. Outside the App Store, it would depend on whether the developer makes old versions available after updates. If it's important to you, save the installers yourself.
7. I don't think so.

 

[HansDiag]

1. Always possible on Mac, if it's on AC power with external keyboard, trackpad (mouse) and display connected.

yep i know that, but i meant in normal, "non-docking-station"-mode - seems to be a thermal issue of some kind but this is totally annoying if you ask me.

 

[chabig]

yep i know that, but i meant in normal, "non-docking-station"-mode - seems to be a thermal issue of some kind but this is totally annoying if you ask me.

I'm genuinely curious how you would be using the machine in this situation?

 

[HansDiag]

I'm genuinely curious how you would be using the machine in this situation?

Its the first thing i do on a new windows machine, set it to "do nothing" when i close the lid. For example to keep rendering a video or scene, closing it up when I'm sitting at a table talking to people without having it stop synching on dropbox, exiting a Facebook/Skype chat, stopping a download. To put it under my TV to quickly watch something on the big screen, the list goes on... I think its harder to justify the force-sleep than to find reasons for staying on.

Is it possible to turn off the built in screen when mirroring?
Can i lock the screen (like with password/Touch ID) while programs keep running in the background?
[doublepost=1482134300][/doublepost]

4. Not sure what you mean. No, I guess, as security updates are issued as OS updates.

I meant like on iOS - no security fix without updating the entire OS to the next version. On windows you get years of fixes for outdated OS-versions - for example, can i be on Mountain Lion and have just the latest security fixes or do i have to upgrade to sierra?

Not quite sure how this works in the mac world or if it is as much a difference as with Windows 7, 8 and 10...

 

[chabig]

Is it possible to turn off the built in screen when mirroring? Can i lock the screen (like with password/Touch ID) while programs keep running in the background?

I see. I forgot that you could set Windows to do nothing. The Mac equivalent would be to lock the screen, which turns off the display but leaves the machine running. Ctrl-shift-power does that, or you can set a hot corner is System Preferences.

I meant like on iOS - no security fix without updating the entire OS to the next version. On windows you get years of fixes for outdated OS-versions - for example, can i be on Mountain Lion and have just the latest security fixes or do i have to upgrade to sierra?

Sometimes Apple will issue security updates for older OSes, but you always want to update to the latest OS for maximum security.

 

[OldMarketMeg]

[QUOTE="HansDiag, post: 24084057, member: 1062244
1. Closing the Laptops Lid without having it go to sleep, still not possible on MBP?
[/QUOTE]

There is an app called Caffeine that should help.

 

[Zazoh]

There is a huge gap/swing/chasm where a Mac is either not that configurable, or VERY configurable once you start editing plist files and doing Terminal commands to turn something off or on. The documentation is spread far and wide.

You are a Windows power user, it takes one of those about a year of pain moving from one ecosystem to become a power user of the other. Doable, but you won't like the road.

 

[HansDiag]

a year of pain

Great but i thought so, my DOS/Windows knowledge comes from using it my entire life, so a year for getting confident in Mac should be fine.

 

[satcomer]

Great but i thought so, my DOS/Windows knowledge comes from using it my entire life, so a year for getting confident in Mac should be fine.

Just replace the command key in place for the control key in Windows in Keyboard commmands. There is page from Apple Support called Mac Keyboard Shortcuts. If you are a true "switcher" then get the book Mac OS Sierrra: This Misssing Manual by David Pogue. You won't regret it.

 

[Dave Braine]

4. Not sure what you mean. No, I guess, as security updates are issued as OS updates.

Incorrect. I've just installed the latest Security Update for El Capitan without having to update the OS.

 

[r0k]

I've used Windows, Linux and MacOS over the years. I have had apps "stop working" on OSX when Apple went from PowerPC to Intel architecture then kept a PPC emulator around for "a few years" and suddenly discontinued it. This meant that some expensive programs I'd bought and paid for as PPC binaries were no longer usable unless I kept one of my Macs running an older OS. I decided to let those apps go. Wouldn't you know it, they were Adobe apps. The only Adobe app I use nowadays is Photoshop Elements and I got that through the app store so I get updates automagically.

As for control, I believe there is a lot of control possible on MacOS. One example is networking. I can start and stop wifi while ethernet keeps working. I'm sure you'll be happier with MacOS than you ever were with Windows.

 

[thekev]

i guess you are right. So here are some concrete problems I had using PC and iPhone on a daily basis:

1. Closing the Laptops Lid without having it go to sleep, still not possible on MBP?
2. Can you turn off wifi but keep on LAN?
3. Can you control all auto-adjusting on the screen and keyboard backlight?
4. Can you get the latest security fixes without updating the entire OS?
5. Will (any/some/major) Apps just stop working because I'm not on the latest OS? (Like a mandatory app-update which itself requires an OS update)
6. Is it common to find older versions of software somewhere outside the app-store in the mac-world (like it is with windows)
7. Can i set a maximum battery charge in the Bios (or elsewhere)?

1. It will remain awake if an external display is attached.
2. You can disable wifi independent of wired connectivity, such as ethernet.
3. Yes
4. Sometimes
5. Yes. An app could remove support for older OS releases in an update. This does happen.
6. No.
7. No. Why would you even want to do this? It's a bad idea in most cases.

 

[HansDiag]

7. No. Why would you even want to do this? It's a bad idea in most cases.

Usually i set it to 80-90% max charge to elongate battery health - i usually dont need more than a few hours on battery and prefer having a few hours of battery life even after 5 years or so. I just looked it up, Apple charges 199$ for a battery replacement - that is a lot but if you spend upwards of 3000$ on a machine you shouldnt care...
[doublepost=1482394417][/doublepost]

Incorrect. I've just installed the latest Security Update for El Capitan without having to update the OS.

good to know, thanks!
[doublepost=1482394792][/doublepost]

Wouldn't you know it, they were Adobe apps.

The Adobe CS was also the most expensive software i used, but with the new monthly plan this wont happen any more. I'm not even shure what to think about it, more of an oldschool-guy wanting to "own" software but we have no choice.

I worked for companies that still used the now free CS2 in 2015 but usually you had to update the license every 3 years or so, I'm happy with 5 years of support. I Just asked because on the iPhone, not willing to update the OS, Apps, even paid ones, stopped working after less than 2 years, and thats annoying to me.

 

[satcomer]

Usually i set it to 80-90% max charge to elongate battery health - i usually dont need more than a few hours on battery and prefer having a few hours of battery life even after 5 years or so. I just looked it up, Apple charges 199$ for a battery replacement - that is a lot but if you spend upwards of 3000$ on a machine you shouldnt care...
[doublepost=1482394417][/doublepost]
good to know, thanks!
[doublepost=1482394792][/doublepost]
The Adobe CS was also the most expensive software i used, but with the new monthly plan this wont happen any more. I'm not even shure what to think about it, more of an oldschool-guy wanting to "own" software but we have no choice.

I worked for companies that still used the now free CS2 in 2015 but usually you had to update the license every 3 years or so, I'm happy with 5 years of support. I Just asked because on the iPhone, not willing to update the OS, Apps, even paid ones, stopped working after less than 2 years, and thats annoying to me.

If you want a semi cheap good Photoshop alternative on a Mac is Pixelmator. You won't be disappointed!

 

[HansDiag]

If you want a semi cheap good Photoshop alternative on a Mac is Pixelmator. You won't be disappointed!

Ive tried Pixelmator in a very early version, seems to be fine. Adobe is the industry standard, so theres no way around it as a professional, especially if you have to work togehter in bigger teams, with clients or other companies.

 

[satcomer]

Ive tried Pixelmator in a very early version, seems to be fine. Adobe is the industry standard, so theres no way around it as a professional, especially if you have to work togehter in bigger teams, with clients or other companies.

So this is a work computer!

 

[HansDiag]

So this is a work computer!

Why confused? Don't you use a mac to get some work done?

 

[satcomer]

Why confused? Don't you use a mac to get some work done?

My work and home computers are Macs! My radio station local programs and shows are recorded and processed on Macs before up loaded to the Linux server running the in air broadcasts using Rivendell.

I'm what you call an advanced enthusiast and local accounts live sports, interviews and in house tech problems.

Now with Pixelmator it is a program that's extremely light on it's feet. So unless your a working photographer then that program will most likely serve all your photo enhancements at a relitive cheap price. Besides for what it does it is extremely cheap and uses built in MacOS services so yearly system upgrades rarely interfere and keeps runnning.

 

[Rok73]

There is an app called Caffeine that should help.

You wouldn't want to use an app that was written for OS X 10.4 on El Cap or Sierra and hasn't been updated for newer OS versions.