Paul Thurrott: Leopard Copied Vista!

[GFLPraxis]

Here we go again Paul Thurrott, Microsoft fanboy extraordinaire, has written another article.
Apple Mac OS X Leopard Preview: Who's the Copycat Now?

Sometimes I wonder how Apple CEO Steve Jobs can sleep at night. He appears to spend half his waking hours ridiculing Microsoft's admittedly behind-schedule operating system, Windows Vista, for copying Mac OS X features. But this week at Apple's annual Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC), he announced ten new features for Leopard, the next version of OS X, most of which will seem more than vaguely familiar to Windows users. I'm not dim: Microsoft does copy Apple on a fairly regular basis. But seriously, Steve. Apple's just as bad.

Ugh.

 

[opik]

FYI (to paul)..steve jobs purposdely only showed the features that windows already has or will have on vista so that they won't be able to copy in time..as he said "it's not smart to start the photocopiers too early."

 

[balamw]

Ugh.

I really don't think Paul is completely wrong, this time, and many of the posts in response to the keynote confirm that.

None of the features presented this week were revolutionary and many of them are similar to features in Vista. While those of us who drink the RDF kool-aid may ultimately prefer the implementations of said features better in OS X, that doesn't necessarily hold true for all users.

We'll have to wait for Vista to go gold and the Top Secret features to see the light of day before we can really assess what's going on here.

B

 

[netdog]

FYI (to paul)..steve jobs purposdely only showed the features that windows already has or will have on vista so that they won't be able to copy in time..as he said "it's not smart to start the photocopiers too early."

Yup, let the journalists make hay with this while the sun shines. I expect that the full feature set, or close to it, will be introduced at MW07, and Steve will have the last laugh.

 

[GFLPraxis]

The best response I've seen to this is here:
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=193683&cid=15882836

It basicly smashes everything Paul Thurrott says with some actual facts.

 

[seansf]

I am so sick of these MS apologizers claiming that Apple stole features from Vista. Until a paying consumer can actually USE those features, they are ideas. I am not suggesting that some features of OSX weren't inspired by MS's ideas...but to say MS developed them first is overstating things.

 

[Passante]

I still don't understand how one could "copy" something that has not been released yet.

I really love how Vista's version of spotlight will equal Leopard when SP1 for Vista is released. Pleeese how can you count on a service pack release in late '07 when the version 1.0 may not meet its most current shipping date.

 

[balamw]

It basicly smashes everything Paul Thurrott says with some actual facts.

While I agree with most of the points in the /. post , they're mostly opinions at this point until both OSes are released.

B

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

I really don't think Paul is completely wrong, this time, and many of the posts in response to the keynote confirm that.

None of the features presented this week were revolutionary and many of them are similar to features in Vista. While those of us who drink the RDF kool-aid may ultimately prefer the implementations of said features better in OS X, that doesn't necessarily hold true for all users.

We'll have to wait for Vista to go gold and the Top Secret features to see the light of day before we can really assess what's going on here.

B

Yeah, I agree - while Paul might've been a bit harsh, so was Apple when it came to accusing Microsoft of copying at the recent WWDC.

And to the member above who said that 'Steve only previewed what Vista already has' - wouldn't that imply that Apple did copy some of Vista's features?

Steve didn't preview only what Vista had - Vista doesn't have Spaces, or Core Animation, or iChat AV's features...etc - but he didn't preview too much, in my opinion, that mattered to the end user (Time Machine and Spaces exempt ).

 

[0098386]

Forgive me, but I think that's a joke. Just sounds a little silly.

 

[Timepass]

Yeah, I agree - while Paul might've been a bit harsh, so was Apple when it came to accusing Microsoft of copying at the recent WWDC.

And to the member above who said that 'Steve only previewed what Vista already has' - wouldn't that imply that Apple did copy some of Vista's features?

Steve didn't preview only what Vista had - Vista doesn't have Spaces, or Core Animation, or iChat AV's features...etc - but he didn't preview too much, in my opinion, that mattered to the end user (Time Machine and Spaces exempt ).

I though I might like to point out to you that Windows XP already has something like spaces so is very safe to assume that it is in vista or easily can get it from M$ after the reliase. Check out M$ power toys been out since 2002.

2 of the biggest things are a a lot like things either already in XP or where announced in vista a while ago (and had a working verson at that point as well) So yeah Apple is looking like a huge hypocryt here

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Faugh, Paul Thurrot. Even if there is some truth to what he says he is so eager to rip up OS X I prefer not to listen to him. I fart in his general direction.

 

[Kardashian]

Josh Thomas: Vista copied Tiger!

 

[hulugu]

I though I might like to point out to you that Windows XP already has something like spaces so is very safe to assume that it is in vista or easily can get it from M$ after the reliase. Check out M$ power toys been out since 2002.

2 of the biggest things are a a lot like things either already in XP or where announced in vista a while ago (and had a working verson at that point as well) So yeah Apple is looking like a huge hypocryt here

We keep going over this and I don't know why:

Spaces=Virtual Desktops, has been on Linux for years. Apple has copied the idea like Microsoft, but has a much better implementation.

Time Machine = VMS, which has been used on Unix since forever, and which Microsoft merely picked up.


Really, the only thing I can think of that Apple has taken from Windows is Fast User Switching, everything else came from old Apple products (Dashboard), BeOS (Spotlight), or Unix (Spaces, Time Machine, etc.).

And that ignores the Bertrand's presentation which showed clearly how similar Windows Vista looks like OSX.

In some ways this is a childish argument because the computer industry should be about feeding on new ideas and reinventing them to suit their customers. But, Microsoft will tout anything and everything in Vista as brand-new and revolutionary when in reality all of their ideas were previously implemented.

 

[DavidLeblond]

I though I might like to point out to you that Windows XP already has something like spaces so is very safe to assume that it is in vista or easily can get it from M$ after the reliase. Check out M$ power toys been out since 2002.

2 of the biggest things are a a lot like things either already in XP or where announced in vista a while ago (and had a working verson at that point as well) So yeah Apple is looking like a huge hypocryt here

Have you ever used virtual desktops for XP? There is a reason it wasn't in the final version. Its horrid. Nothing like Spaces. For one, you can only do 4 desktops. You can't move between the desktops. See them all at once. etc etc etc...

 

[Timepass]

Have you ever used virtual desktops for XP? There is a reason it wasn't in the final version. Its horrid. Nothing like Spaces. For one, you can only do 4 desktops. You can't move between the desktops. See them all at once. etc etc etc...

I used it. I didnt like it personally but I have friends who do like it.

What I think it comical here is when the truth is pretty much smeared in your face here eveyone thinks of reasons to say apple not doing this because of X. yet if m$ even remotaly copies apple any any way everyone screams.

Face it apple was a copy cat here and took things from M$ that they had been using and put it in there OS. Dashboard is a konfab rip off. There no way in hell apple would of brought dashboard around if it was not for konfab. Space is a copy of something in XP or linux for a while. They just refinded it a little. No one is arguing that. Simple turth is apple just got slammed here and eatting there own words and looking kind of bad right now.

also would like to add apple would not be getting this flack if they wouldnt scream M$ coping all the time. Or ripping appart there comp. Has apple gotten that despared that is his to mud sling. Are it products really not as good as they act like they are? There current acction make me question them because clearly they dont have enough faith in there stuff that it will sell itself. How offen do you see M$ attacking the flaws in OSX. apple spent more time at WWDC attacking M$ then they did showing off their stuff.

Apple getting this crap because of how they acted. They are getting all this crap because they thew stones at other for coping and they turn around and do it. They deserve what they get for it.

 

[Xander562]

i like it how he says that OSX has nothing, repeat, nothing like windows media center..... and Front Row is.....?

he also makes a point about the lack of tablet OSes. Why would Apple spend the time and money to make a tablet OS if there isnt anything to run it on? besides, tablets are falures anyways.

 

[Abstract]

Apple's version of Windows Search will now search other Mac clients and workgroup servers, functionality that Microsoft will add to Windows Vista with the release of Vista SP1 and Longhorn Server in late 2007. It will also support advanced search features, like better search syntax, just like Windows Search. And, as with Windows Vista, you'll be able to launch applications and find recent items with Spotlight. Gee, Spotlight still seems an awful lot like Windows Search.

That's hilarious. Windows' search feature is worthless, and their new Windows Search feature isn't out and was so over the head at Microsoft that they cut it out. They had 5 years to make a decent search feature, and couldn't. Tiger had Spotlight already, so it's not like Leopard having decent search is a Microsoft idea. It's nobody's idea, really, because it's the most basic of ideas. I'm guessing that since Spotlight has proven to be so decent, Microsoft knows it has to implement this as well. Maybe if Spotlight never existed, Microsoft would have just given up on their Windows Search and pretend they never tried.

And everything that Leopard has that's a copy wasn't copied from Microsoft. There's an example of an earlier version of these features somewhere else, but it won't be from Microsoft.

The only major copy is Spaces, and that's a multiple desktop rip-off. Hell, that's a major multiple desktop improvement. Apple made that feature useful for me. I very rarely use it in Linux.

However, Thurrott has some good points in there as well, just very few.

 

[jaxstate]

So are you saying Apple copied the idea of having media center capabilities from MS. These types of conversations can go on forever. I don't really see it as copying, I see it as the natural progression of a OS. It works the other way around too. I don't see MS copying the spotlight feature from OSX, just the natural progression of the search function. Just my .02.

i like it how he says that OSX has nothing, repeat, nothing like windows media center..... and Front Row is.....?

he also makes a point about the lack of tablet OSes. Why would Apple spend the time and money to make a tablet OS if there isnt anything to run it on? besides, tablets are falures anyways.

 

[DavidLeblond]

At least when Apple "copies" something, they make it their own. They actually add to it.

Like Spaces... yes, its virtual desktop. But they added the Expose feature to it and the ability to drag windows around to the various desktops.

Time Machine... volume shadow copy? Can volume shadow copy work within applications and in conjunction with the Windows search? No.

Even Dashboard... ok lets just say they DID copy Konfabulator... Konfab was annoying, you couldn't have too many widgets up because they got in the way. So they made it into a hidden layer.

When was the last time MS copied something of Apple's and made it BETTER?

 

[GFLPraxis]

Time Machine... volume shadow copy? Can volume shadow copy work within applications and in conjunction with the Windows search? No.

Actually, Volume Shadow Copy in itself is a copy of functionality from BeOS, IIRC. So at worst you can say Apple copied BeOS. But you are entirely correct.

 

[jaxstate]

Blah. It's still a copy.

At least when Apple "copies" something, they make it their own. They actually add to it.

Like Spaces... yes, its virtual desktop. But they added the Expose feature to it and the ability to drag windows around to the various desktops.

Time Machine... volume shadow copy? Can volume shadow copy work within applications and in conjunction with the Windows search? No.

Even Dashboard... ok lets just say they DID copy Konfabulator... Konfab was annoying, you couldn't have too many widgets up because they got in the way. So they made it into a hidden layer.

When was the last time MS copied something of Apple's and made it BETTER?

 

[Timepass]

When was the last time MS copied something of Apple's and made it BETTER?

One thing that comes to my mind is clear type power toy for XP. Most of the reviews I read on it (and personally experince) is it better than the one OSX has on it (sorry dont rememeber the name off the top of my head and I just resently set up clear type on another computer today). Also came out after OSX. Just though I would point that out.

 

[topgunn]

To a reporter/columnist/blogger/etc, is it better to be truthful and honest yet boring or ignorant and loud yet captivaing? The latter gets so many more readers/buyers/hits so guys like Thurrott flurish. He says crap like this to get a rise out of people which leads to his articles getting posted on forums which leads to getting a rise out of more people which lands a link on more forums and so on and so on and so on.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

To a reporter/columnist/blogger/etc, is it better to be truthful and honest yet boring or ignorant and loud yet captivaing? The latter gets so many more readers/buyers/hits so guys like Thurrott flurish. He says crap like this to get a rise out of people which leads to his articles getting posted on forums which leads to getting a rise out of more people which lands a link on more forums and so on and so on and so on.

I (unfortunately) agree with everything he said.