PayPal Brings Contactless Payments to German iPhones Under New EU Rules

[Baslea]

As the EU in a guise for the consumer in reality is anti-American tech. Yet you (the royal you) happily use the iPhone. Go figure..

Of course, as for me iOS is still better than Android, which doesn't mean that everything Android offers is s*** and there's no room for improvement. If the EU fights American tech to (for me) become better, then they should continue. Again, Apple can always choose to exit EU.

 

[.wojtek]

The only drawback I can think of is getting forced to download and use multiple apps to pay if a merchant decides certain methods aren't allowed.

said noone ever as it's not a thing anywhere xD

 

[surferfb]

said noone ever as it's not a thing anywhere xD

That's absolutely a thing in the United States.

Walmart Stands Firm on Why It Doesn't Accept Apple Pay in the U.S.

Walmart still does not accept Apple Pay or other NFC payments at its more than 4,600 stores across the U.S., and it stood firm on its reasoning for...

www.macrumors.com

 

[I7guy]

Of course, as for me iOS is still better than Android, which doesn't mean that everything Android offers is s*** and there's no room for improvement. If the EU fights American tech to (for me) become better, then they should continue. Again, Apple can always choose to exit EU.

I thing they should, along with google and facebook. And let the eu pour some $$$ into a company that can compete non a world class level.

 

[Baslea]

I thing they should, along with google and facebook. And let the eu pour some $$$ into a company that can compete non a world class level.

I couldn't mind less, tbh, I would even welcome it. Please don't forget to take Microsoft with their Office-**** as well. It would suck the first time, but in a few years they would bring up even better alternatives. It's not like EU dont have the funds or money to do so, they just see no point as there are (unfortunately) already established alternatives and - even If you try to create something new - they big US players try to destroy it in the core. So yea, go for it.

 

[sw1tcher]

The only drawback I can think of is getting forced to download and use multiple apps to pay if a merchant decides certain methods aren't allowed.

said noone ever as it's not a thing anywhere xD

That's absolutely a thing in the United States.

Walmart Stands Firm on Why It Doesn't Accept Apple Pay in the U.S.

Walmart still does not accept Apple Pay or other NFC payments at its more than 4,600 stores across the U.S., and it stood firm on its reasoning for...

www.macrumors.com

Except you're not being "forced" to download the Walmart app "to pay" for purchases made in their stores. You can pay for a purchase using another method (cash, debit card, credit card, gift card, etc.)

 

[surferfb]

Except you're not being "forced" to download the Walmart app "to pay" for purchases made in their stores. You can pay for a purchase using another method (cash, debit card, credit card, gift card, etc.)

I think it was clear we were talking paying via the phone. As in "the downside to allowing other payment processors to use the phone's NFC chip". But sure, you can always use cash/card whatever.

 

[AppliedMicro]

PayPal gets a 4% cut...

Not on contactless Mastercard payments in Europe (what this article is about).

Since you replied quoting an article citing Apple’s 0.15% cut, it’s an Apples to Oranges comparison.

 

[garyjones027]

That's absolutely a thing in the United States.

Walmart Stands Firm on Why It Doesn't Accept Apple Pay in the U.S.

Walmart still does not accept Apple Pay or other NFC payments at its more than 4,600 stores across the U.S., and it stood firm on its reasoning for...

www.macrumors.com

Yes.

The situation in the USA is that there are no laws mandating NFC on payment terminals. This is why large U.S. retailers like Walmart can choose whether to support NFC or not. Walmart decided not to support it in favor of its own Walmart Pay function within the Walmart app.

Most major retailers in the U.S. implemented NFC during the pandemic because of high customer demand.

I expect Walmart will continue to avoid NFC because it is the largest retailer in the U.S. and has a very large, loyal customer base. There have been customer complaints about the lack of tap-to-pay options like Apple Pay and Google Pay, especially since other major stores offer them. However, due to its strong customer loyalty, Walmart will continue without NFC for many years.

 

[Naraxus]

Apple‘s iOS operating system may and does remain proprietary and a differentiating factor.

iOS is not Android. And fair access to third-party providers does not make it the same.

Lol. So now it's "not fair" that Apple wants a roi for a distribution model it expended large amounts of capital to create, develope, and maintain, a massive gamble that was, at the time, completely unheard of in the mobile phone industry but because of a few whiny freeloaders they're now expected to give away the farm?

 

[AppliedMicro]

So now it's "not fair" that Apple wants a roi for a distribution model it expended large amounts of capital to create,

They’re not the first monopolist to spend large amounts of capital on their business and business model.
But regardless, them exploiting their monopoly power in anticompetitive ways is neither fair nor desirable.

a massive gamble that was, at the time

…and?

We’re not living g 10 or 15 years in the past.
Apple succeeded in capturing that opportunity and were more than handsomely rewarded.

They've "only" become the most valuable company in the world - and one of the most profitable ones at that.

 

[AppliedMicro]

they're now expected to give away the farm?

At least let others farm on their land, yes.

If you're Apple is the equivalent of an individual farm(er), that'd be a gross mischaracterisation.

Apple are no small farmer.
Keeping with your analogy, they single-handedly own half of all farm land.
In the entire country.
In a duopoly.

Maybe a bit less.
But adjusted for its superior "fertility", they do.
Compared to the other player in the market, that.

If the same ownership concentration existed for (all of) the nation's farmland as does for mobile OS...
...there would be no question if government regulation - and allowing others to farm on it - is warranted.

 

[Seoras]

PayPal has ****** exchange rates normally, I agree (and always choose the card's exchange rate instead for that reason — at least PayPal gives you the choice), but for their new Mastercard they now have documented that the Mastercard exchange rate will be applied, without any conversion fees.

The reason Wise.com (formerly transferwise) came into existence was because of the ****** exchange rates from the banks and cards (including Visa/MC).
They circumvented the banking exchange system by pooling money exchanges between people in different countries. No money is actually exchanged as your money goes into a pool and you get paid from a similar pool at the receiving end.
I've been running an online services business for 12 years now which uses PayPal for the website payments which I've never liked (their software or fees).
I have to payout royalties each month to an internationally diverse group of people and I've used wise.com for several years now to do that.
Just incase anyone wonders why I'm so in favour of wise over Paypal, it's the years of frustration with the later and their fees while always being impressed by the former.
Check the exchange rate you get with MC and compare it to what wise would have given you.
With wise the fee is fixed so it becomes more cost effective the more money you move.

 

[klasma]

Check the exchange rate you get with MC and compare it to what wise would have given you.
With wise the fee is fixed so it becomes more cost effective the more money you move.

Good point, so I checked the current rates for converting 1000 USD to EUR. With Mastercard it was 895.82 EUR, while with Wise it was only 893.85 EUR. However, with the conversion fee, I would actually pay 897.73 EUR with Wise. The fee also isn’t fixed, but variable, see here: https://wise.com/be/pricing/card-fe...ceCurrency=EUR&targetCurrency=USD&track=false. The fee isn’t very high at (apparently) 0.46%, but still.

Furthermore, I couldn’t find any actual definition of the Wise card fees, other than “varies with currency” or using their calculator. That’s too intransparent for my taste.

I understand that PayPal isn’t great if you use it for receiving payments as a business, but for a consumer it’s a good payment method. PayPal also saved me from fraudulent sellers more than once with their buyer protection.

 

[Naraxus]

At least let others farm on their land, yes.

You're joking right? Apple should be forced to let others onto their property?

 

[Naraxus]

They’re not the first monopolist to spend large amounts of capital on their business and business model.
But regardless, them exploiting their monopoly power in anticompetitive ways is neither fair nor desirable.

Apple is not a monopoly despite how much you and others erroneously claim they are.

 

[germanbeer007]

So... don't use it. Problem solved

people who have a problem with iPhone being locked down should just not use it. problem solved.

 

[.wojtek]

That's absolutely a thing in the United States.

Walmart Stands Firm on Why It Doesn't Accept Apple Pay in the U.S.

Walmart still does not accept Apple Pay or other NFC payments at its more than 4,600 stores across the U.S., and it stood firm on its reasoning for...

www.macrumors.com

Well... one thing - I'm sorry for USA being weird and abusive and whatnot (only there you have weird blue-green bubble discourse xD). Secondly - it's slightly different case, wouldn't you say? And Willmar is thw same abuser of it's position as apple ans both should be regulated 🤷‍♂️

 

[surferfb]

Well... one thing - I'm sorry for USA being weird and abusive and whatnot (only there you have weird blue-green bubble discourse xD). Secondly - it's slightly different case, wouldn't you say? And Willmar is thw same abuser of it's position as apple ans both should be regulated 🤷‍♂️

I don't see Apple as an abuser of their position. As far as I'm concerned, they design the phone and the OS and should get to decide how it works together. I know that is a minority position among MacRumors commenters.

But honestly, I don't have particularly strong feelings over this compared to other EU regulations. In my perfect world it wouldn't exist, but it's so far down the list of bad ones it's not worth getting worked up over.

 

[.wojtek]

I don't see Apple as an abuser of their position. As far as I'm concerned, they design the phone and the OS and should get to decide how it works together. I know that is a minority position among MacRumors commenters.

It's the same thing as Walmart: "they created the shop so they get to decide how the shop works together".

But ad rem - MS also created the Windows and yet was regulated hard. Just because we have two players doesn't mean it's not duopoly or some other position abuse...

 

[surferfb]

It's the same thing as Walmart: "they created the shop so they get to decide how the shop works together".

Agree. Just in this case, the EU is saying "we get to decide how the shop works." Which, IMO, ideally wouldn't happen, especially when there is an "open" competitor on the market that actually has more than twice the marketshare and already works how EU is demanding the minority player work.

Again, I understand reasonable people disagree and (at least on MacRumors) I appear to be in the minority on this.

But ad rem - MS also created the Windows and yet was regulated hard. Just because we have two players doesn't mean it's not duopoly or some other position abuse...

Microsoft had like 90% of the desktop PC market; iOS has less than 30% of the smartphone market in the EU, I'd argue the only thing similar about the cases is they both involve American tech companies.

 

[AppliedMicro]

You're joking right?

Not at all.
See above.

Apple should be forced to let others onto their property?

I don't think I was unclear in my posts above, was I?

Bill Gates owns 0.03% of all farmland in the U.S. as the largest private owner of farmland.
About 275,000 acres of a total of about 875 million acres.

Apple own about 25%-50% of the market (in the U.S. and in Europe).
50% or more, if you adjust for "fertility" (keeping with the comparison).
And 95% or more in their duopoly with Google.

👉 Since you liked the "farm" comparison so much: Would you let a duopoly of two (!) private landowners own 95% of all farmland? Let them deny others access to their "property"? And impose their rules and access pricing on a take-it-or-leave-it basis?

Apple is not a monopoly despite how much you and others erroneously claim they are.

…and yet they have monopoly power.

iOS has less than 30% of the smartphone market in the EU, I'd argue the only thing similar about the cases is they both involve American tech companies.

...and Google accounts for the other 65% of the market (in software).
Acting mostly in unison with Apple.

 

[Naraxus]

Bill Gates owns 0.03% of all farmland in the U.S. as the largest private owner of farmland.
About 275,000 acres of a total of about 875 million acres.

Apple own about 25%-50% of the market (in the U.S. and in Europe).
50% or more, if you adjust for "fertility" (keeping with the comparison).
And 95% or more in their duopoly with Google.

👉 Since you liked the "farm" comparison so much: Would you let a duopoly of two (!) private landowners own 95% of all farmland? Let them deny others access to their "property"? And impose their rules and access pricing on a take-it-or-leave-it basis?

If it's his property he can do whatever he wants with it and deny or allow access to it as he sees fit.

…and yet they have monopoly power.

Irrelevant. Apple has not been convicted of being a monopoly.

 

[AppliedMicro]

If it's his property he can do whatever he wants with it and deny or allow access to it as he sees fit.

Absolutely. Cause he owns 0.03% of the “market” and does not have monopoly power.
But when your market share is thousand times that (in percent), government will and should impose access rights.

Allowing owners of important important materials or platforms with monopoly power to do “as they see fit” and impede competition is undesirable.

Irrelevant. Apple has not been convicted of being a monopoly.

Irrelevant - cause they have been found of violating antitrust law.

 

[.wojtek]

Microsoft had like 90% of the desktop PC market; iOS has less than 30% of the smartphone market in the EU, I'd argue the only thing similar about the cases is they both involve American tech companies.

And both with Google have 100% making them perfect duopoly...