IF the op would like to have an SSD, he should get one with a Sandforce controller which kills your intel in speed. And FYI, my CS5 loads in 2.5 seconds after the 4 second first time load...continuing to use CS5 will store it in the flash cache and make it even faster.
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PC guy needing some clarification
- Thread starter RuggedPro
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Mike225
macrumors 6502a
...making it an SSD. I think you are trying to argue something different... and I think I know what it is.
Yes, that your intel is outdated and if your trying to get the OP to buy an SSD dont be recommending the intels until they are updated to the better controllers. If your looking for good performance you need to get a sandforce, I believe they are currently in either OCZ or OWC and one of these does have its own trim support built in so that is not a problem for OS X and Apple may finally integrate the trim support in Lion...who knows
Reconfigured setups thanks to the info in this thread. (still investigating SSD. Super expensive.)
I gotta say.... for $1000 difference..... lack of blu ray, less memory, and lighter weight graphics card..... It seems like a no-brainer to me that the Envy is the better choice.
Tell me if I've missed something?
I gotta say.... for $1000 difference..... lack of blu ray, less memory, and lighter weight graphics card..... It seems like a no-brainer to me that the Envy is the better choice.
Tell me if I've missed something?
Mike225
macrumors 6502a
Show me where I recommended or tried to get him to buy an Intel SSD. I told him what I was using and a speed benchmark based on that. Did you want me to tell him I was using an OCZ when I was really using an Intel G2?
It depends what you want, there have been many discussions about the blu-ray and most of them end with "Apple and MS agree that blue-ray wont last" Then the other thing to consider is there are no current viruses for Mac, the pc world is infested. Mac doesnt come with the bloatware crap that almost every factory PC has, I looked at the customization for that Envy and I didnt see an option to just have a clean install but I do remember Dell offering that some time ago but it did cost something like $50 extra to get them to not install the crap. Of course you can get alot from the website that sounds like a big Apple only sales pitch like the, "We build the hardware and the software...so it works better together" - Yes that sounds like something you would get from a salesman at bestbuy or something but its true. Calendar integrates with mail and can integrate with MobileMe also just as an example. If you *ABSOLUTELY* need to run something windows you have alot of options; Bootcamp, Parallels, VMware, and there are a few free ones but I recommend Bootcamp for anything windows. You can get the 8gig ram upgrade for I believe around $150 from places like OWC and the photoshop isnt that expensive for the package they are installing. Hope some of that helps you.
Just so you know, laptop quadcores are running at much lower clock frequencies than their dual core counterparts, which means that for most tasks they'll usually be slower. Only heavily multithreaded stuff like video encoding will be faster. Not to mention they usually put out a lot of heat. There isn't much sense buying quad core for a laptop at the moment IMO.
Every PC laptop I've tried has had an absolutely awful trackpad compared to the Macbook Pros. They also are typically not quite as intuitive to use when it comes to the various extra functions controlling things like volume etc. Even if the Macbook Pros don't have the best specs on paper, in real use they are more effortless in my experience. Plus most OSX software is much higher quality (more intuitive UI etc) than similar efforts for the PC.
Also consider getting for example the cheaper 15" MBP and an external monitor for more desktop real estate. I often use my 13" MBP as a desktop with a 30" 2560x1600 display and it works great.
As for SSDs..it seems to be that the Sandforce controller devices can't really reach the speeds stated, they seem to degrade quite a bit when the drives get full and they seem to have the same sort of "users as beta testers" thing going that OCZ had with their drives. The Intel G2 (though I wouldn't buy one now since G3 is right around the corner) is an effortless, no nonsense option.
Every PC laptop I've tried has had an absolutely awful trackpad compared to the Macbook Pros. They also are typically not quite as intuitive to use when it comes to the various extra functions controlling things like volume etc. Even if the Macbook Pros don't have the best specs on paper, in real use they are more effortless in my experience. Plus most OSX software is much higher quality (more intuitive UI etc) than similar efforts for the PC.
Also consider getting for example the cheaper 15" MBP and an external monitor for more desktop real estate. I often use my 13" MBP as a desktop with a 30" 2560x1600 display and it works great.
As for SSDs..it seems to be that the Sandforce controller devices can't really reach the speeds stated, they seem to degrade quite a bit when the drives get full and they seem to have the same sort of "users as beta testers" thing going that OCZ had with their drives. The Intel G2 (though I wouldn't buy one now since G3 is right around the corner) is an effortless, no nonsense option.
Blu101
macrumors 6502a
Along with what everyone else has said...I think you may be overlooking the main reason to switch from pc to mac...mac OS X. Seriously, the overall experience alone is worth any hardware differences any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Don't forget specs are nearly useless in real world use. I've seen slower processor computers wipe the floor with higher spec computers with my own two eyes. System optimization = hardware and software that work well together. No pc will ever give you that. Too many individual components from too many individual companies assembled by yet another company. Apple may be a bit over priced, but you do get what you pay for (take advantage of student discount, apple refurb or 3rd parties like amazon to ease the burden on the wallet, and do your own RAM and HDD upgrades - price should be closer to the Envy). I'm a blu ray fan/collector and was a pc user for 21 years. I ain't going back. Of course, you need to pick the best choice for you, and if you use your computer for blu ray you may be out of luck. Make a list of everything you use your computer for, then list the Envy and the MBP and start checking off what each can and can't do. See how it looks. Good luck.
ps: if you use your computer for much more than just blu ray, you may want to consider buying a cheaper or refurb pc laptop dedicated for blu ray and a 15" MBP for all other computer use.
RE: The 15" how is the 1440-by-900 compared to the 1680-by-1050 in real world use? And because of the larger screen, is the 1920x1200 1:1 comparable?
Processor a bit slower and down on screen resolution and size but all other things being equal, $2049. $500 seems like a big difference but is it when considering the 2" screen size, resolution, and processor speed difference?
RE: quad core performance. I'm reading the same things. Was news to me. Thanks for the info!
Like I said I do encode a fair bit but, I can't imagine it being worth the loss in general every day speed just to be a bit faster when I do encode.
Blu101
macrumors 6502a
I love my 1680x1050 resolution! Watching a dvd on it feels the same as a blu ray on my 42" plasma (glossy screen, not anti-glare).
With a 7200 RPM HDD, I boot up in ~30sec, and although I don't have any big software installed yet, all the iLife programs, chrome and skype open in ~2-3sec. Fast enough for me to wait until my MBP reaches its end of life, and by then SSD or flash memory should be nice and cheap.
Screen size is obviously smaller than the 17", but the 15" is also more portable, easier to haul around, and fits in more bags. Like someone else said, if you need more screen real estate, you can always use one of your 3 external monitors or your tv. Apple sells a mini-display port (video connector on MBP) to HDMI adapter, and on new MBPs it also carries the audio, no different than any other HDMI.
My 15" MBP with the hi-res screen was $1800 with student discount. I did my own 500GB HDD upgrade for a measly $65, thanks to Amazon. Will do my own 8GB RAM upgrade soon, currently under $200 at OWC. Good for 3-5 years min. And I'll be ripping my fav movies off DVDs for on the road entertainment, enjoy blu ray at home with a BD player. Couldn't be happier.
I agree wholeheartedly about the experience. People who dog the iphone just don't get it. It may not be the on the bleeding edge of specs but between the app store and the phones seamless experience.. tough to beat.
That's a damn good idea! Never even occurred to me. I'm actually considering scrapping my desktop and getting the envy for work/blu ray work and some evolution of the MBP for other things. Lot's of options.
Bottom line after discussing it with my wife. I will need a PC laptop always due to my career but I think we will replace every day laptop-ing with a middle of the line MBP.
Thanks a ton guys! Nice to have technical information and professional opinions unmarred by fanboi-ism.
Blu101
macrumors 6502a
Exactly 😉
There are so many little things you can do with MAC OS X that makes your computer using experience so much better you'll ask yourself what took you so long.
And I went through the Envy 17 configuration setup...2.25 hour standard battery? Ouch..I know you said this wasn't a big concern for you, but in these days, any laptop should be able to play one 2 to 2 1/2 hour movie on a single battery charge. See, the quad cores kill batteries.
My friend just got a refurb 17" pc laptop for $500. Something like that with a 15" MBP will put you around the same as a 17" MBP, price wise. Best of both worlds and you can keep on enjoying blu ray from a laptop 😉
Hell, if you're not going to game on it, you can even look at the 13" MBP for max portability or a Macbook Air. Though if you want a full power computer, I'd stick with the 15" MBP.
ps: a thought just came to me, since you can install a windows OS on an Apple MBP, I wonder if you can then use an external blu ray player. I have no idea, so maybe others can comment on this?
In any case, good luck whichever way you end up going. Cheers.
jlc1978
macrumors 604
If you don't use both at the same time you could create a Bootcamp partition on the Mac and boot into Windows when you need a "pure" Windows machine. The down side is you need to reboot when you want to run OSX.
In the end, the best solution is what works for you. For me, while a PC could fit the bill for my work, the overall feel of the MBP (Keyboard, display, construction) and OSX's ability to just work almost all the time made me to decide to go with the Mac. For example, I was often the only person who could use a printer at a client site because my Mac recognized their Bonjour printers while the PC's couldn't find them on the network.
For the rare times I need to use Windows, parallels fits the bill for me but then again split second execution of trades while running proprietary software is not what I am looking for.
From my personal experience i would just get a cheap pos pc laptop for blu-ray, And then get a good macbook pro for everything else. After years of dealing with Windows laptops, i finally bought a mac and was shown the light. No crapware, no viruses, no antivirus, no anything sans the true computer experience we should all have. Only thing i dont like about macs is the non gaming aspect, but thanks to steam that is changing and my personal move to consoles.
IMO the 17" 1920x1200 display is actually too high resolution. Text becomes rather small and since OSX doesn't support resolution independent scaling, there's not much you can do about it except get used to it or wait for OSX 10.7. By comparison the 15" 1680x1050 is perfect res/display size ratio IMO. Looks great.
For BluRay I'd just get a PS3. It's still the best player for that stuff plus a good media server and games console.
For $1000 less, that Envy sure looks good. If you game, that ATI 5850 card will run circles around that 330m. The i7 is a dual core version. but the 2.66 i5 is comparable in speed.
If people complain about that the MBP has a superior screen, for $1000 you can buy yourself an amazing 27 inch IPS display that will fix that problem for him 😀
How much warranty you get on the Envy?
AdamRock
macrumors 6502a
do a geenbench test on his mbp, look at the categories of the test and see what you will be using daily.
Apple OC
macrumors 68040
my response was not Fanboi ... just 25 years experience of using Mac and PC computers ... if people still think saving $1000 to get a PC is worth it ... I hope you use a PC forever.
I have never met even one person jumping from Mac to PC ... ever
could just be a coincidence though ... Enjoy your Envy.
George Knighton
macrumors 65816
I'm just a new guy amateur, but I think I should take a moment to point out that if you have to use a virtual machine and Windows for any of your work, you will certainly notice a big difference between a Core 2 Duo and an i7 dual core.
We run the same applications in a 13" MacBook Pro and a 15" MacBook Pro, and the 15" machine does much, much better, being able to use the virtual machine much more efficiently and with no visual glitchiness.
The 15" MacBook Pro seems to force the nVidia discrete graphics when using the virtual machine. Perhaps this is more responsible for the better performance than is the i7 processor, but I'd like to present the observation for analysis and argument.
🙂
Partition/emulators, won't cut in my field. Wish they would. I'm a trader and I've seen many a people try to pull it off but none with any long term success. Besides that, when/if you have to call technical support whether your brokerage or software provider, the minute they find out you're running Mac you get "our system is not designed to be run on Mac" and stonewalled from there on out. I'll always require a good PC.
Looks like I'm going to go ahead with the Envy purchase for work purposes at $1399 and a 15" MBP at ~$2000 for everything else. I have a feeling I'll want a 17" MBP but I see that MBP hold their values well. If I'm taken by the experience as much as some of you say, it should be no problem upgrading later.
Thanks again members. 😎
Thanks again members. 😎
I dont know why you cant run windows via bootcamp...*it is* running windows on basic hardware, the only thing mac is doing is providing drivers to allow the keyboard and such to work with the installation. It has nothing to do with the functionality of windows so I dont see why you think it just cant be done.
As I said, it's caused problems in every case I've personally seen. Can't afford it. Worth the $1399 on a PC laptop to eliminate that potentially costly variable.
Also the technical support issue.