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pc users, myths, "computer" teachers and quality vs. quantity

-übergeek

More on the point to your question (and dovetailing to the one above), listen to their arguments (do it with a knowing smile), let them vent and beat their head against the wall for a while.

If you engage with them, don't let them get technical, it's escapism. (see the Keith Powell argument above) Stick to what matters, user experience, what the tool is used for. Be wiling to admit there are things Macs shouldn't be used for, and vice-versa. They cannot argue with the "I prefer Macs because I prefer Macs" argument as it is preference and ironclad.

Let them do most of the talking - remeber, knowing smile.

Definitely avoid being interpreted as a fanatic (not easy).

Admit that there are uses for either platform, argue the Total Cost of Ownership (TOC), and the fact that though Macs are more expensive up front, they last longer and need far less maintenance.

There are large IT departments set up to support Windows machines, why not Macs? Answer: Macs don't need 'em. Additionally, IT departments are motivated to to switch an entity (school system?) to PC, due to the fact that they'll have plenty of work to do, money to make, and have job security. And they will use lower Initial Cost as a selling point - never TOC.

Don't let them confuse Market Share with Installed Base. Market share is simply a market analysis of machines selling now. Install Base are those machines in use today. Apple's market share hovers about 3%. But install base is around 11.6% worldwide. (classic confusing these is the pundits talking about the iTunes store available to only 3% of the market. Actually, iTunes is available to the Installed Base - bigger than 3%)

There's no slowing of your system over time due to Regisry issues (yes, it's a little technical, but important to the user).

Ask them how often they reinstall Windows (Microsoft recommends doing so every 6 months). You never have to. Why? (registry issues among other things)

And finally, after giving them the (mosly) quiet "I'm listening" treatment, when you find your opening, lean forward (for effect) and say calmly, "Have you owned a Mac recently?" (recently meaning OS X- era)

You'll probably get responses in the negative.

Reply to that with "Well, I use PC's all the time, and know both. And I prefer this machine."
Note that this is simply a statement of fact: we live in a Windows world - as much as we loathe to admit it. This adds credence to your position, you know both, they know only one - their vehemence is an illustration of those blinders.
 
übergeek, you probably already got what you wanted - a chance to let off some steam here.

When students ask me "What's best - a PC or a Mac?", it is almost always the case that they heard PCs were best from their friends or parents, already use a PC, and know nothing about Macs. And of course they mean Windows, not the PC hardware. I tell them the truth, that there are advantages and disadvantages to both, but that I prefer Macs for a number of reasons. I give them more details if they want them.

But I'm always tempted to say something like this: "I use both kinds. What's best for you depends on what you want the computer for. If you want to build a computer out of your own parts for the cheapest possible price, or if you want to have the same type of computer as your parents, and they use a PC, or if a PC is the only kind of computer you know how to use, then a PC is best. If you want the best interface, or the most dependable operating system, or you like music, or you do graphics or video editing work, or you want to be able to run both PC and Mac software, or you just want to be cooler than your friends, a Mac is best." That sounds vaguely impartial but puts PC users on the defensive. :)

In any case, a reasonable-sounding explanation is more likely to lead kids to consider using Macs than if I had said "Only idiots use PCs!" or something else confrontational (and not true). You aren't likely to convince your classmates by raising your voice or insulting them. You might get your satisfaction from knowing, and showing, that you are smugly secure in your superiority. Or, if it makes you happy, make claims with implied putdowns, such as "I guess you're one of the people who still believe in the megahertz myth" or "You probably don't understand productivity and return on investment" or "There are a lot of people who still think like you do." :)
 
i was yelling for no reason at all (it's not PMS okay?!)
but we got into a mildly interesting conversation about what we should use PCs/Macs for today. So we ended up agreeing...but i screwed up when i told them to read Macintosh...The Naked Truth. That Scott Kelby book has to be one of the longest PC bashing books available and i wish i didn't tell them about it...now tomorrow i'm going to scream my lungs out at disneyland telling them that half of the things he said were dumb and typical of a mac user who thinks that they are superior compared to pc users.
 
Originally posted by übergeek
i was yelling for no reason at all (it's not PMS okay?!)
but we got into a mildly interesting conversation about what we should use PCs/Macs for today. So we ended up agreeing...but i screwed up when i told them to read Macintosh...The Naked Truth. That Scott Kelby book has to be one of the longest PC bashing books available and i wish i didn't tell them about it...now tomorrow i'm going to scream my lungs out at disneyland telling them that half of the things he said were dumb and typical of a mac user who thinks that they are superior compared to pc users.
Click to expand...

disneyland? :D
 
I know some smart PC users. Of course, they can't be that smart since they use PCs......but they know what is going on. The aren't the type that don't think that Macs can use printers or go on the internet. But for every one person like that......there are 20 others. :(
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
So it makes Disney evil if they arrest you for stealing then prosecute you?
Click to expand...
no. they win too much. i mean some kids steal and apologize, and all the problems are solved and they leave without getting in any major trouble, but if you don't act the way they want you to act, then they arrest and sue you :rolleyes:
but most of the time they're great...but watch out for those undercover spies who dress up like stereotypical tourists :p
don't mess with the mouse
 
Originally posted by übergeek
no. they win too much. i mean some kids steal and apologize, and all the problems are solved and they leave without getting in any major trouble, but if you don't act the way they want you to act, then they arrest and sue you :rolleyes:
but most of the time they're great...but watch out for those undercover spies who dress up like stereotypical tourists :p
don't mess with the mouse
Click to expand...

Well if you were as big as they are and had fans as fanatical as them I think it would pay off to have the security that they do. Just thinks of the millions of dollars they spend for security. There must be a reason it must pay for itself. Also if your caught stealing you should expect to be severly punished. The moral is don't get caught or if you can't do that don't steal.
 
I guess I'd better return this Roger Rabbit Toon Spin car. I snuck out with it under my coat, but I thought they wouldn't mind.
 
Thread is off topic :eek:

PC users will agree with Mac user about "PCs suck", just moments after their PC crashed.
Mac users will agree with PC user about "Macs suck", just moments after their Mac crashed. Only this doesn't happen as often.;)
 
Originally posted by übergeek
http://disneyland.disney.go.com/dlr/detail/event?id=DisneyMagicMusicDaysEventPage
btw, disneyland is not the happiest place on earth...disney's absolutely ruthless and they have an actual jail there too...i've known people get arrested then later sued for stealing and stuff
Click to expand...

there used to be a rumor that no person was allowed to die on a disneyland property, its on snopes now. It said that uniformed medical personell nor police officers are every allowed on the disneyland property, for fear it could become bad PR. go search on snopes.com, under the disney category. a very interesting read.

On your point Ubergeek (i know you have the little dots but i dont know how to do it on my pc :(), can't you just imagine some guy in like a mickey mouse suit walking around you, you under a hot line in a dark secluded room? Lol. "TALK DAMNIT!", "fine you caught me, i wanted to go to seaworld.."

:D
 
Originally posted by MacBandit
Well if you were as big as they are and had fans as fanatical as them I think it would pay off to have the security that they do. Just thinks of the millions of dollars they spend for security. There must be a reason it must pay for itself. Also if your caught stealing you should expect to be severly punished. The moral is don't get caught or if you can't do that don't steal.
Click to expand...

everybody steals something at some point. now remember stealing is, "taking without asking", so it could even just too many free samples. lol. I too am guilty of shoplifting, twice. Once I was not caught, the second time I was, however I was never convicted and only had to do 8 hrs of community service. I would never do it again, because trust me, those grocery store people are a$$hos sometimes.

-tazo
 
I think it all boils down to a macho thing, if there was only PC (or macs?) it would be more like "mine has a Radeon 9000" "oh? well mine has a GeForce 4!" and then the chaos begins. I think it has nothing to do with computers and everything to do with the classic battle of keeping up with the Joneses. Either that or the Star Wars rebels against he empire. I think we should just all settle down and keep our battles as just fun, ITS JUST A COMPUTER AFTER ALL!
 
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-übergeek

More on the point to your question (and dovetailing to the one above), listen to their arguments (do it with a knowing smile), let them vent and beat their head against the wall for a while.

If you engage with them, don't let them get technical, it's escapism. (see the Keith Powell argument above) Stick to what matters, user experience, what the tool is used for. Be wiling to admit there are things Macs shouldn't be used for, and vice-versa. They cannot argue with the "I prefer Macs because I prefer Macs" argument as it is preference and ironclad.

Let them do most of the talking - remeber, knowing smile.

Definitely avoid being interpreted as a fanatic (not easy).

Admit that there are uses for either platform, argue the Total Cost of Ownership (TOC), and the fact that though Macs are more expensive up front, they last longer and need far less maintenance.

There are large IT departments set up to support Windows machines, why not Macs? Answer: Macs don't need 'em. Additionally, IT departments are motivated to to switch an entity (school system?) to PC, due to the fact that they'll have plenty of work to do, money to make, and have job security. And they will use lower Initial Cost as a selling point - never TOC.

Don't let them confuse Market Share with Installed Base. Market share is simply a market analysis of machines selling now. Install Base are those machines in use today. Apple's market share hovers about 3%. But install base is around 11.6% worldwide. (classic confusing these is the pundits talking about the iTunes store available to only 3% of the market. Actually, iTunes is available to the Installed Base - bigger than 3%)

There's no slowing of your system over time due to Regisry issues (yes, it's a little technical, but important to the user).

Ask them how often they reinstall Windows (Microsoft recommends doing so every 6 months). You never have to. Why? (registry issues among other things)

And finally, after giving them the (mosly) quiet "I'm listening" treatment, when you find your opening, lean forward (for effect) and say calmly, "Have you owned a Mac recently?" (recently meaning OS X- era)

You'll probably get responses in the negative.

Reply to that with "Well, I use PC's all the time, and know both. And I prefer this machine."
Note that this is simply a statement of fact: we live in a Windows world - as much as we loathe to admit it. This adds credence to your position, you know both, they know only one - their vehemence is an illustration of those blinders.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with this tactic, only thing I'd like to add, is that you may want to make sure you have numerical superiority, or are just having a one on one conversation. Unfortunately pc users are the majority. I've tried having conversations like this, and if there's one or two clowns who don't want to listen, it can ruin the whole situation. You can be as nice and calm as you want but it'll get you nowhere. At that point I just let it go until another time.

I thought this whole Mac vs PC thing was over already .. is it coming back again?:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by 5300cs
I 100% agree with this tactic, only thing I'd like to add, is that you may want to make sure you have numerical superiority, or are just having a one on one conversation. Unfortunately pc users are the majority. I've tried having conversations like this, and if there's one or two clowns who don't want to listen, it can ruin the whole situation. You can be as nice and calm as you want but it'll get you nowhere. At that point I just let it go until another time.

I thought this whole Mac vs PC thing was over already .. is it coming back again?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

try and have no more then a 3:! ration of pc users to mac users, it will always end up bad thereafter. lol. I find that if I walk into a group of people discussing pcs, or bashing Macs, they tend to get overly aggressive and make outlandish blatantly wrong statements.

remember people, 3:1 :)
 
Originally posted by tazo
try and have no more then a 3:! ration of pc users to mac users, it will always end up bad thereafter. lol. I find that if I walk into a group of people discussing pcs, or bashing Macs, they tend to get overly aggressive and make outlandish blatantly wrong statements.

remember people, 3:1 :)
Click to expand...

I find the gest way to convert PC users is to either demonstrate OSX or to let them use it for themselves. I did just that back in August just after I got my new Dual/GHz/DDR PowerMac. I just opened like 8 different programs started a CD burn and then opened up QuakeIII and started to play away. That was all fine and dandy. What shocked them was when I finished up a match and quit out of it. Nothing crashed not any of the many programs I had running and my CD burn had finished without a hitch. Also there was no slow down due to everything I had running. They were just dumbfounded.
 
Darn, that's cool!

Originally posted by MacBandit
I find the gest way to convert PC users is to either demonstrate OSX or to let them use it for themselves. I did just that back in August just after I got my new Dual/GHz/DDR PowerMac. I just opened like 8 different programs started a CD burn and then opened up QuakeIII and started to play away. That was all fine and dandy. What shocked them was when I finished up a match and quit out of it. Nothing crashed not any of the many programs I had running and my CD burn had finished without a hitch. Also there was no slow down due to everything I had running. They were just dumbfounded.
Click to expand...

I wish I could do that with my mere 800MHz G4 iMac.

:rolleyes: *DREAMS ON*

:eek: *SIGHS*

:( *GETS BACK TO WORK*

Still happy with it (my iMac), though...

:D
 
Re: Darn, that's cool!

Originally posted by Bengt77
I wish I could do that with my mere 800MHz G4 iMac.

:rolleyes: *DREAMS ON*

:eek: *SIGHS*

:( *GETS BACK TO WORK*

Still happy with it (my iMac), though...

:D
Click to expand...

If you max out the ram on your iMac you should be able to do pretty much what I suggested. Maybe not quite as well but pretty close. It's more about OSX then it is about the dual processors.
 
can't say ive proved my point by yelling and arguing for an hour. they think what they want, but you will see they get curious when i get out my 12 inch powrebook. everyone wants to play it, most of them are to ignorant to admit they dont like it. but i always hook them with my ipod, then they get really curious.

iJon
 
Originally posted by applemacdude
Forget those people! Why are U trying to "impress" them. If u know they're dumbassess why don't u just let em be? If u think think theyre ignorant and dont know what they are talkin about just let em go play with their LITTLE PLAYTOYS
Click to expand...
applemacdude, I think you might want to consider sending your keyboard back -- it seems to have shipped without the Y or O keys.

Honestly, instead of yelling at ignorant PC users, outlining just how silly their ugly computer and ugly OS are, I tend to just kind of snobbishly giggle at them and go back to using the wonderful OSX...

...and of course Disney is evil. Just look at the maniacal glare in the giant Mickey's eyes!

Well, now it's time to use the official performing fellatio smiley... :eek:

Arigato,
Brook
 
Originally posted by Tequila Grandma
applemacdude, I think you might want to consider sending your keyboard back -- it seems to have shipped without the Y or O keys.

Honestly, instead of yelling at ignorant PC users, outlining just how silly their ugly computer and ugly OS are, I tend to just kind of snobbishly giggle at them and go back to using the wonderful OSX...

...and of course Disney is evil. Just look at the maniacal glare in the giant Mickey's eyes!

Well, now it's time to use the official performing fellatio smiley... :eek:

fellatio

Arigato,
Brook
Click to expand...
fellatio :eek: disney :eek:
 
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