Pegatron Tipped to Manufacture Upcoming 'ARM-Based MacBook'

[ph001bi]

It's certainly a bad moment for purchasing new Macs: CPU vendors will be offering redesigned CPUs in the next years with hardware fixes for Meltdown/Spectre, and you'll want a CPU with hardware fixes when they are released. If you add to that the uncertainty regarding the butterfly keyboard, as well as a slower than expected migration to USB-C (plenty of older USB ports still in brand-new accessories in the market) which makes you guess you'll depend on dongles for quite a few years to come... everything suggests that whatever Mac you purchase today, you might regret the purchase a few months from now when all these uncertainties are conveniently addressed.

I am in my second year with my MacBook Pro and I certainly don't regret the purchase. I know users of iMac in their 1st and 2nd year and they certainly don't regret their purchase either.
USB-C is something you easily can work with and the potential of Thunderbolt gives us an evolution route we never had before.
Assuming a refresh of both Macbook and MacBook Pro next week, there is no issue with the current generation of any Mac besides the Mac mini.

 

[femike]

ew

The new Apple norm.

Perfect. How true that is.

 

[Lone Deranger]

ew

The new Apple norm.

That's sage advice from MacRumors there. Don't buy Apple.

 

[Val-kyrie]

The ARM chip in the iPad Pro 10.5 and 12.9 overtook the Macbook 12'' and the base model Macbook Pro 13'' last year! Go look at the geekbench scores for Single and Multi core.

Burst speed is different than sustained speed. Apple used this method to justify AMD GPUs over Nvidia years ago.

Yup. Though that was perhaps inflated somewhat by some of the benchmarks in geekbench being "Friendly" to the A10X's strengths.

My "set to overtake" was a conservative statement. I own a 10.5 and that CPU is extremely fast for the power it draws. It could drive a low end macbook already quite happily. Give it more headroom via cooling and additional power (and more cores via bigger budget in terms of die size as well) and it would smoke anything intel have inside of 28 watts. At half the power draw.

I would not be so quick to make that statement in light of Intel's new 15W quad-cores which are currently available.

I have a speced out 2016 12" MacBook (Fanless) and the performance of Intel M processor is just terrible.
I really hope Apple goes full ARM for 12" MacBooks.the Apple processors in iPads have much better performance and speed than the awful, slow and crippled M series of lazy ass intel.
can't wait.

Yes, Apple put the worst possible Intel CPU into the MB. Apple wanted a fan-less design, so they chose the (originally) Y-series Intel CPUs instead of the U-series CPUs due to thermal constraints. The M-series is just a rebrand, but the CPU design remains the same. You would feel different if Apple were to add a fan and use the equivalent U-series CPUs instead.

 

[Webster's Mac]

Here are my thoughts:

1) An ARM-based Macbook Pro could be a serious powerhouse since you'd have cooling system that beats any tablet on the market. They could make a chip with more cores and a higher clock speed.

2) This would probably be the last straw for Pro users (or users like myself who enjoy using a *real* computer). If I can't run Windows on it, and they keep making garbage keyboards etc, there are PC maufacturers making nice Pro laptops now that I'm gonna have to look into.

It's a shame, really. I like macOS and the touchpad is just so nice on Macbook Pros. But having a laptop that is serviceable and has an Intel CPU is most likely what I'm gonna have to do within the next few years. Hopefully my rMBP ealry 2013 will last until then.

 

[bluecoast]

Considering that’s only 18 months away is ARM ready to compete against 10-18+ core Xeon processors? Maybe the next Apple A chip will be more powerful then the best of the best x86 from Intel. If they are going to move everything over and convince everyone to dump their pro x86 Macs then it’s going to have to be a monster.

Maybe I’m getting a little bit TOO enthusiastic here!

However:

Why exactly are Apple taking such a long time over the Mac Pro if it’s not something radical?

The iMac Pro has the basic ‘guts’ of what a Xeon Mac Pro could be. If it were just 100% Xeon, you’d expect it by at least fall this year. Apple do know how to build a modular professional headless computer based on Intel/PC components.

So it can’t be just that.

Maybe it’s going to have an ARM CPU that will run 95% of the time with the Xeon cores acting like an eGPU.

Perhaps on reflection that’s more likely. Ditto for the iMac Pro too.

But maybe Apple will genuinely shock us as I originally suggested.

The current A & AXchips prioritise energy (battery) and thermal efficiency.

Whst could Apple do if raw performance was the primary objective of ARM chips intended for the Mac Pro and that they could really let rip?

I genuinely don’t know. But I still think that we might be in for a shock.

 

[Jyby]

Science Rules!

 

[Val-kyrie]

You know what those ratings are based on, right? They are based on MacRumors estimates of how soon each of those models will be replaced by a new one. Do you buy that a Mac Mini replacement is imminent?

In one sense, the chart reflects how old the Macs are. IOW, they all need updates, except perhaps the iMac (Pro).

 

[Jyby]

Science Rules!

 

[MacBH928]

A lot of people are ok to choose macs because they know when it comes down to it, they will be able to run Windows program. My understanding is that if they switch processors they will have to re-write the whole software.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Yes, we don't seem to completely remember the PPC-to-Intel transition very well, probably because Rosetta seemed to smooth over many issues. We forget that it took major third party players a couple of YEARS to evolve their software to be fully compatible. We forget how many majors were just orphaned there (because Apple's share of the market is so small, not everyone will bother going through the trouble). We forget that eventually Apple just deprecated Rosetta, WHILE there were still a fair amount of major software that had not yet been converted.

Nevertheless, Rosetta did smooth over that process. We also seem to forget that Apple didn't invent Rosetta.

Is there a Rosetta 2 to smooth over this transition? If not, our memories of the prior transition not seeming so bad may lead us to believe this one would be similar.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Would this run Windows via Parallels or VMWare?

Windows 10 is capable of running on ARM, so I'd think so.

This could be a great way of getting Mac prices to come down. I wonder how much of the current price is solely having to pay Intel their exorbitant prices?
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A lot of people are ok to choose macs because they know when it comes down to it, they will be able to run Windows program. My understanding is that if they switch processors they will have to re-write the whole software.

No. The compiler would have to be capable of compiling down to ARM, but it already is because they use the same compilers for both macOS and iOS (and tvOS and watchOS and their other OSs that run on ARM.)

 

[jacjustjac]

I bought the latest 15” MBP for video editing. Slim, great screen, touchbar helps, TB3 is fast, and reliable battery life with external 40W USB-PD battery packs. But the iPhone X / iPad Pro and Luma Fusion proves the ARM is pretty capable of 4K video editing. Apple’s last remaining edge in the video editing space is their hardware + software integration. I really hope they don’t give up on it as Adobe puts the pressure on people to switch to faster Windows PCs.

 

[The Mercurian]

Your thoughts on this are based on what exactly?

They update the ipad and iphone every year.

Being in control of their own CPUs will give them the ability to put out new CPUs for their computers just as frequently. They haven't updated the mac lineup in ages because, to put it bluntly, intel haven't built anything they want.

A 5% performance jump (which is all intel have been putting out per generation since sandy bridge) is not worth deprecating the existing mac lineup and putting out new models. PC vendors can do what they like - they do this because they don't have a captive market. This is why they make 5-10% margins and include heaps of third party crapware with their machines to try and re-coup some money.

Apple isn't interested in 5% margins, and their customers aren't interested in crapware pre-installed on their machines by apple in order to try and make up some of the lost margin.

What desert island have you been on? The latest intel chips have extra cores given 40-50% performance boost.

 

[Jimmy James]

By the time they're done there's only going to be ARM-based MacBooks costing $3,000 with no ports that can only be charged on a wireless mat.

 

[KPandian1]

Ok i'm a little confused, will this be a Surface type of device? haven't Appel said they don't like the idea of such devices.

Only because they don't have such a device out right now. Once they are ready, the love for it will be abundant!

 

[efktd]

The Pentagon is manufacturing the next MacBooks?!?!? Sweeeeeeet!!

 

[zorinlynx]

My worry with all this is not so much the moving to ARM, but the possibility that Apple might take such a move as an opportunity to lock down Macs so they only run App Store software.

Despite the flaws Macs have right now, it's still an open system and you can run whatever you like. If they lock Macs down to only approved software, the platform will be ruined and Macs will just be appliances like iOS devices are.

I hope I'm just being paranoid, and that Apple would never do this. But it seems lately you can never predict what crazy path they will take, and I love the Mac platform so it's a bit of a scary prospect.

 

[jclardy]

Will it still have the butterfly keyboard?

I'd be fine with the butterfly if they completely sealed the top case somehow. As in no dirt/dust/water can get under the keys and screw them up. Also they could make them a bit quieter while they are at it as well. I don't mind the sound as I use mechanical keyboards at my desk, but when I am in a quiet room with other people it is distractingly loud.

 

[guzhogi]

What could Apple do if raw performance was the primary objective of ARM chips intended for the Mac Pro and that they could really let rip?

I'm curious to see that, too.

I also wonder if this'll affect what kind & number of ports we'll see? Just wondering if we'd see 4+ thunderbolt ports on the MBP, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro? What kind of storage will ARM Macs have? Will we continue to see Fusion drives, will we go all SSD?

I'd like to see what Apple does with macOS, as well. Personally, I'd like to see Apple hold off on a major macOS upgrade for a year, switch as much to Swift as possible, clear out any legacy code, etc. I also wonder how much code is in macOS there is to handle spinning HDDs & DVD drives? I'm sure not much in the grand scheme of things, but could save some room getting rid of that (after they stop shipping Macs with Fusion Drives, of course).
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My worry with all this is not so much the moving to ARM, but the possibility that Apple might take such a move as an opportunity to lock down Macs so they only run App Store software.

Despite the flaws Macs have right now, it's still an open system and you can run whatever you like. If they lock Macs down to only approved software, the platform will be ruined and Macs will just be appliances like iOS devices are.

I hope I'm just being paranoid, and that Apple would never do this. But it seems lately you can never predict what crazy path they will take, and I love the Mac platform so it's a bit of a scary prospect.

I guess I'm in the paranoid club as well. With this, I see Apple becoming more and more proprietary. While I can understand that this has its advantages (eg better integration, some level of quality control), sometimes I need things that don't necessarily follow Apple's guidelines. Plus, some apps, while they may have a Mac version, run better on Windows or other platform.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Apple is confident they can do this because of several reasons.

- there is a large market in the iPad that would want a more traditional clamshell device that can run iOS apps.
- they likely already have macOS fully compiled with all their in house apps running on it.
- select developers such as Adobe, Microsoft and some other ones are on board or their iOS equivalent have been modified to work out of the box to behave like a floating window - minimize, maximize, split view, use a mouse pointer.
- it will have exclusive features that make it attractive: Pencil, Face ID, Touchbar, (which will ease the interaction with iOS apps on a clamshell design).
- include 5G connectivity.
- Desktop interface just like macOS, just with the option of iOS apps and traditional point and click.
- competitively priced.

Also, Apple controls the key components here: SoC, no longer beholden to Intels roadmap. If they want to update this device two times per year, they can.

 

[xpxp2002]

I have a speced out 2016 12" MacBook (Fanless) and the performance of Intel M processor is just terrible.
I really hope Apple goes full ARM for 12" MacBooks.the Apple processors in iPads have much better performance and speed than the awful, slow and crippled M series of lazy ass intel.
can't wait.

Yep. I have a 2015 base model and it's awful for performance and battery life. I love the portability and it made sense before the iPad Pro came out, but now it feels archaic in comparison to the speed of the iPad Pro.

The issue is that the Core M looks decent on paper, but as soon as you start using the computer it generates enough heat to engage thermal throttling. With no active cooling, it just putters along until you stop using it for a few hours...which happens quickly if you're running on battery.

It has gotten so bad since the Meltdown/Spectre patches that it's almost unusable. As much as I thought I'd never be the person to say it, I wish I could disable or remove that patch just to get some minimal level of performance back.

 

[applepuree]

Is if this is true and Apple returns to ARM, I will have to ditch all my software again and rebuy, just like when they went from Arm to Intel?

No... I don't think I will.

As much as I love OS X and hate Windows, I think I would just not replace my Mac when it dies and just stick to my iPhone.

 

[macduke]

People complain about not getting regular Mac hardware updates. People complain about lack of speed improvements for the last several years. Apple has a world-class best chip engineering team that absolutely knocks it out of the park every year with anything they do. Then people get mad when they hear a rumor that Macs might be getting said incredible chips with yearly updates. WHY?!??

As for Windows compatibility, Microsoft has been adding ARM support too. It’s where the world is moving. But even so, we’re moving into a post-Windows, post-Intel world. Apple’s plan is to leverage their iOS developer community to make Mac Apps, while providing backwards compatibility for some time. They’re probably working on making it stupid easy to port them.

 

[bluecoast]

I'm curious to see that, too.

I also wonder if this'll affect what kind & number of ports we'll see? Just wondering if we'd see 4+ thunderbolt ports on the MBP, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro? What kind of storage will ARM Macs have? Will we continue to see Fusion drives, will we go all SSD?

I'd like to see what Apple does with macOS, as well. Personally, I'd like to see Apple hold off on a major macOS upgrade for a year, switch as much to Swift as possible, clear out any legacy code, etc. I also wonder how much code is in macOS there is to handle spinning HDDs & DVD drives? I'm sure not much in the grand scheme of things, but could save some room getting rid of that (after they stop shipping Macs with Fusion Drives, of course).
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Do you (or anyone else) know what sort of legacy code could be cleared out?

I’m guessing that there’s a lot in there for 32 bit apps at the very least, but are there any other outdated frameworks and APIs that are likely to go?