Penryn MacBook Pros: Performance Comparable, Battery Life Greater

[dwman]

All this fuss over a "slight" upgrade makes me glad I waited. Instead of ponying up $2000 for the Penryn model, I picked up a 2.2 SR MBP at Amazon for $1500 and change(after MIR). Unfortunately, I won't be getting it until March 12-15.(too cheap to pay for shipping ) My first so I'm looking forward to joining my fellow Mac converts.

 

[MacFly123]

They should get rid of the base model with the combo drive anyway. I know some people will say well I don't wanna pay extra for what I won't use. I would simply say to that, well why not just use floppy disks again lol. There comes a time when a technology is pretty much adopted as standard, and it is sad that Apple the pusher of new tech and the new digital era is still shipping a combo drive!

 

[shawnce]

The goofiest thing about Mac right now is Universal Binary... I shaved 4gig off my MBP's HD just by eliminating the bloat of non Intel PPC code.

Not only the space saving but the apps launch almost instantaneously now. Even 80% of the Apple apps still have PPC code in them.

This isn't correct. Your system doesn't contain anything close to 4 GiB of PPC code in universal applications. Also the PPC code is ignored when an application is loaded on an Intel system and vice-versa, it will have near zero impact on the load time of the application.

The vast majority of space is taken up by localizations and not by executables. Likely you used a tool that also strips the unneeded localizations.

 

[Analog Kid]

I still don't know why Apple went with AT&T given that both Sprint and Verizon were working on this tech while AT&T was just finishing EDGE. EVDO is already much faster, and makes web browsing a breeze even with my crappy IE Mobile.

In the metro areas, 4G and WiMax will be very prevalent. Don't know what AT&T is doing right now.

GSM. That's the only reason I can think of... One phone everywhere.

I wouldn't condemn anyone for waiting unless they didn't really need the latest and greatest. There are some waiting for the next revision of the MBP so they can surf the web on a better looking machine....

For me. I had a much older machine and waiting was good. Not only do a get a battery friendly, faster chip, but MT and a better display as well... for the same $3000 that I would have paid for the SR model.

I hope the lesson people take away from this, is that updates are going to be slow, methodical, and predictable. Intel is releasing parts in equal increments, and there will be no surprise jumps in performance. The only things we have to look forward to from release to release now are other system features. Multitouch, is one. BluRay will be another.

There's no point in trying to time the market on CPU performance. I think Intel have finally mastered the Juggernaut approach with the rotation of CPU/chipset/process improvements.

For me its more of a hypothetical question, as i would never go back to a PC, has to be a mac, my gripe isnt with being faced with a hypothetical decision but rather Apples continued defiance in regards to listening to what customers really want.

Theres a lot of mac users who dont care, thats all very well for them, they have what they want, what ticks me off is when then knock you for wanting more just because their wants/needs have been met they care not about what anyone else wants, and it seems to me that every time Apple releases some new trendy mac variant and more PC users switch the more people want to see games on the mac. When those who are content with what they have cant be happy with it and let those who strive for more alone its possible apple marketing sees sites like these when people say "its not for gaming", "get a console" and so fourth Apple no doubt thinks "ah well, seems more people think they are getting a good deal as apposed to the others who want to play games, let them have what they got, and if they dont like it they go buy a console, screw them everyone else is happy".

It was said before in another post and i guess im just reiterating that point that if you let them believe your content to pay top brass price for sub standard hardware then they will continue to deliver that rather than trying to keep people happy. If they only serve to keep the Professional users and the old grannies and grandads happy then i think things like the power of their OpenGL engine is wasted on them.

It seems to me that you're arguing that Apple isn't giving people what they want because so many people are saying they're happy with what they have?

There are a few things that drive the Mac's design. Right now, thin is in. Quiet is important. Battery life is important. Apple has a thermal envelope they are forced to operate in by the size of their unit and they're throwing most of their power budget at the CPU and memory at the expense of GPU and hard drives. You may want a fat, noisy Mac for gaming, but the company is just not structured that way. It's like asking Dell to produce something sleek.

If Apple's volumes grew to the point that they could afford to produce a line of gaming Macs, I still think it would take a while before they conceded. It's just not in their culture. Then there's the whole chicken and egg problem of why make a gaming machine when there's no games to be played and why make games for a machine that can't handle them? I'm not sure if Bootcamp is helping or hurting in that respect-- more games are playable now, without a doubt, but is Apple going to encourage people to boot into Windows?

I think if Apple were able to broaden their line to the extent that Dell or Lenovo have, they'd cater to more different types of users. For now they're looking for the sweet spot. I really don't think they're out to get you...

FWIW, OpenGL was meant for professionals, not gamers. It comes out of SGI's 3D engine, and people weren't running Irix for the games...

 

[Analog Kid]

They should get rid of the base model with the combo drive anyway. I know some people will say well I don't wanna pay extra for what I won't use. I would simply say to that, well why not just use floppy disks again lol. There comes a time when a technology is pretty much adopted as standard, and it is sad that Apple the pusher of new tech and the new digital era is still shipping a combo drive!

This is a welcome place for me to cut costs. We don't need more than one DVD burner in the house and not buying them allows us to put that money elsewhere.

I do wonder how much different the actual components are in cost to Apple, though...

 

[winterspan]

Sse4??

I can't believe the author wrote about comparing Penryn and Merom performance without mentioning SSE4.1. I would argue that SSE4.1 would be THE primary improvement to performance in Penryn. In the coming weeks or months, you'll see many new application updates that will add support for SSE4.1 in most processor-intensive media applications.
SSE4.1 is a new SIMD instruction set that will increase the performance of many applications that do certain types of heavy data processing, including apps for audio/video editing, composition, and/or rendering, photo manipulation, graphic design, 3D modeling, different types of computational science and scientific data processing/visualization, 3D games, and other high performance processing.
Intel claims SSE4.1 will provide up to 45% increases in performance versus Merom.

 

[DaveTheGrey]

ask paris hilton

sorry for that, english is not my first language...
What I wanted to ask:

Which temperature does the CPU reach when it idles, compared to the previous generation MacBook (Pros)?
and perhaps more important to me:
What are the idle fan speeds and at which temperature do they start to increase their speed?

Dave

 

[cyberjunky]

It seems to me that you're arguing that Apple isn't giving people what they want because so many people are saying they're happy with what they have?

Actually what i mean is there are 2 sides to the argument. People who want to game and people who dont. Those who dont will knock those who do and as long as they act content apple will go along with the belief its ok while those who do want to game will get frustrated.

Then there's the whole chicken and egg problem of why make a gaming machine when there's no games to be played and why make games for a machine that can't handle them? I'm not sure if Bootcamp is helping or hurting in that respect-- more games are playable now, without a doubt, but is Apple going to encourage people to boot into Windows?

I think apple will encourage all available solutions for using windows apps and games where equivalants do not exist for mac. This helps windows converts feel safe that they can still have the best of both worlds, so considering we can run windows if a mac version of a game isnt compiled we can run it on windows. Without the right hardware though gaming experience wont be the best it could be.

Think about what you said about the HDD, apple lowered the spec of their HDD in the new MBP not upgraded its RPM, why? Higher margin no doubt.

I would not think a decent GPU would take up much room on the motherboard, its usually a fairly flat and small chip.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Analog Kid]

I would not think a decent GPU would take up much room on the motherboard, its usually a fairly flat and small chip.

Small flat and hot... I don't know for sure that this is why Apple isn't using a GPU you'd be happier with, but power does seem to drive most of their decisions.

 

[RUAerospace]

I'm not sure what this thread is getting at.... If the online store is correct, Apple does offer a 2.6 GHz Penryn option for MBP that is undoubtedly faster than any of the current fastest Merom (the lower-clocked 2.5 GHz Penryn is about equal with the 2.6 GHz Merom overall) granted that the performance gain is slight (~5%). Having said that, the lower-priced Meroms easily provides the best bang-for-the-buck at this point in time.

 

[Italian666]

Question

Hi Guys,
I have a couple of questions that could sound silly, but anyway.
I have a PC and I really want to buy a Mac now. I waited till now in order to have the last MacBookPro upgrade, but at least for me sound that this new upgrade is not so innovative.
So here are the Questions:
Do you think the new Processor Intel Atom is going to be used also for MacBookPro or is going to be part only of more portable devices and smaller laptop as MacBookAir?
Is the introduction of the processor Atom really going to bring the innovation that I'm waiting for?
If this going to happen when should I expect this upgrade?
Thank you very much for your help.

D.

 

[reallynotnick]

More battery life, SSE4, higher clock speeds, bigger HDD's and more VRam. I call this a pretty good update!

The problem is people forget that now 2.4ghz is the bottom line and before it was the middle line, so this is like a $500 price reduction and a few extras!

 

[kaiwai]

Small flat and hot... I don't know for sure that this is why Apple isn't using a GPU you'd be happier with, but power does seem to drive most of their decisions.

I've got a MacBook with a GMA950 graphics card, and when I first looked at it, I too thought I 'needed' a dedicated GPU. I think this approach by some (and me) has been due to bad experiences in the past, in my case, the bad experience I had with the 810 chipset many years ago.

If one really does need alot of GPU power, then I think the issue at hand is a requirement for a workstation rather than a laptop. A laptop will always have compromises; if you have a more powerful GPU, the battery life will go down.

What would be interesting is seeing what the new Intel GPU's will be like in the future, which apparently will be a giant leap of the X1300, which might actually provide good enough performance for many to consider good enough for the MacBook Pro.

 

[diamond.g]

I've got a MacBook with a GMA950 graphics card, and when I first looked at it, I too thought I 'needed' a dedicated GPU. I think this approach by some (and me) has been due to bad experiences in the past, in my case, the bad experience I had with the 810 chipset many years ago.

If one really does need alot of GPU power, then I think the issue at hand is a requirement for a workstation rather than a laptop. A laptop will always have compromises; if you have a more powerful GPU, the battery life will go down.

What would be interesting is seeing what the new Intel GPU's will be like in the future, which apparently will be a giant leap of the X1300, which might actually provide good enough performance for many to consider good enough for the MacBook Pro.

The X4500? It is supposed to have more EU's than the X3100 but it won't be enough to replace a dedicated GPU in the MBP anytime soon. Unless you are referring to the whole Larabee project. But I don't think we will see the fruits of that labor for a good while.

 

[TimeWaster101]

Big Dilemma

Blast this is a hard decision for me:

A. I could get the current MBP in a month by my birthday and have it to use ALL summer! I still love the current design.

B. Wait for the next model. What if I don't like the new design. But maybe it'll be better looking? But I don't really want an air styled design. I like the curved rectangle look of the MBPs and MBs. However, regardless of how amazing the new design may look, what about all the issues there could be. The last thing I want to do is be fixing my computer all the time in college.

I really don't think I personally will notice a performance update with Montevina and I don't think the specs will change much. People keep saying it will be thinner, but here's why I disagree:

1. Mac laptops already have heating issues. Make the thing any smaller and it'll overheat (BAD!).
2. The nvidia 8600M is about the best that can fit and the 8800M is larger and creates more heat. Apple needs to future proof itself. If they get too ahead of themselves and make every thing super thin, there will be no room for extra features. Its better to have more space for extra features, than make an already very thin laptop thinner. Honestly, anyone who thinks 1" is too thick needs to take a shopping trip through the PC isle and compare.
3. if they make it thinner, it may resemble the Air's style (all curvy and such). While the air looks amazing, on a larger laptop, all the weird curves make not look right and may make the computer look too complicated and I associate Apple's design with simple. Simple usually is better. What is it I hate about the look of every PC laptop? All the stuff. Too many designs, to busy, and too clunky. I love that when you close a MB or MBP the whole thing is symetric and smooth. Also I'd rather have a solid laptop than one that resembles a wedge from the side (slopes from 1" to .5" or something)

But its a hard decision. I don't want to buy now then see the new one and wish I'd waited. Yet if the new is nothing special, I'll wish I'd bought already.

PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR 2 CENTS!!!! Also does anyone have evidence for a redesign this summer. What if they wait until Nahelem. or will Nahelem premier on the Montevina Platform. Also this mumbo jumbo of the Air raising the bar for Apple's designs. HOW? THe air is a bare minimum computer. You can't create a notebook like the Air and fit the Pro's specs. So what of the air besides keyboard, magnetic latch, and bigger trackpad would they put? Make it curvier?

 

[vixapphire]

sorry for that, english is not my first language...
What I wanted to ask:

Which temperature does the CPU reach when it idles, compared to the previous generation MacBook (Pros)?
and perhaps more important to me:
What are the idle fan speeds and at which temperature do they start to increase their speed?

Dave

Dave, don't apologize; I was only making a silly joke!

 

[Digital Skunk]

I hope the lesson people take away from this, is that updates are going to be slow, methodical, and predictable. Intel is releasing parts in equal increments, and there will be no surprise jumps in performance. The only things we have to look forward to from release to release now are other system features. Multitouch, is one. BluRay will be another.

I am hoping for the same thing, but as the waiters for the Merom chip and Penryn chips have proven Apple and Intel aren't going to be doing too much in terms of speed bumps and other hardware. Going from 2.33 --> 2.4 -->2.5 were all very minor jumps. And even when the SR wanters claimed that the new chip set or whatever had some flash cache thing or something that would improve speed a lot, it actually didn't improve it that much, it just made it a little zippier.

The same with Penryn, and the the next chipset/processor update. It won't be that much of an improvement over this model, but as many have said over the web, why upgrade from 6 months ago model? It's the users with older machines that are getting the most benefit, hence Apple's reason for not putting the SR/Merom books in their speed comparisons.

 

[kuupoika]

2.5 and 2.6 penryn MBpro's compared ???

does anyone know of any speed comparisons between the 2.5 and the 2.6 penryns in the MBpro's... trying to work out if the cost is worth it

cheers for Oz

 

[skiesforme]

does anyone know of any speed comparisons between the 2.5 and the 2.6 penryns in the MBpro's... trying to work out if the cost is worth it

cheers for Oz

Here's my opinion:-
* 100 MHz extra speed hardly counts.
* 6 MB L2 Cache would definitely give a performance boost.
* Obvious difference is the extra 256 MB VRAM that would make a big difference if you are into graphics.

Best link to look for information is the Geekbench Score results page where users submit their Geekbench scores:
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/similar/43457/4
(Mine was 3177 for a 2.4 GHz Penryn base model)

 

[TimeWaster101]

Blast this is a hard decision for me:

A. I could get the current MBP in a month by my birthday and have it to use ALL summer! I still love the current design.

B. Wait for the next model. What if I don't like the new design. But maybe it'll be better looking? But I don't really want an air styled design. I like the curved rectangle look of the MBPs and MBs. However, regardless of how amazing the new design may look, what about all the issues there could be. The last thing I want to do is be fixing my computer all the time in college.

I really don't think I personally will notice a performance update with Montevina and I don't think the specs will change much. People keep saying it will be thinner, but here's why I disagree:

1. Mac laptops already have heating issues. Make the thing any smaller and it'll overheat (BAD!).
2. The nvidia 8600M is about the best that can fit and the 8800M is larger and creates more heat. Apple needs to future proof itself. If they get too ahead of themselves and make every thing super thin, there will be no room for extra features. Its better to have more space for extra features, than make an already very thin laptop thinner. Honestly, anyone who thinks 1" is too thick needs to take a shopping trip through the PC isle and compare.
3. if they make it thinner, it may resemble the Air's style (all curvy and such). While the air looks amazing, on a larger laptop, all the weird curves make not look right and may make the computer look too complicated and I associate Apple's design with simple. Simple usually is better. What is it I hate about the look of every PC laptop? All the stuff. Too many designs, to busy, and too clunky. I love that when you close a MB or MBP the whole thing is symetric and smooth. Also I'd rather have a solid laptop than one that resembles a wedge from the side (slopes from 1" to .5" or something)

But its a hard decision. I don't want to buy now then see the new one and wish I'd waited. Yet if the new is nothing special, I'll wish I'd bought already.

PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR 2 CENTS!!!! Also does anyone have evidence for a redesign this summer. What if they wait until Nahelem. or will Nahelem premier on the Montevina Platform. Also this mumbo jumbo of the Air raising the bar for Apple's designs. HOW? THe air is a bare minimum computer. You can't create a notebook like the Air and fit the Pro's specs. So what of the air besides keyboard, magnetic latch, and bigger trackpad would they put? Make it curvier?

 

[diamond.g]

Blast this is a hard decision for me:

A. I could get the current MBP in a month by my birthday and have it to use ALL summer! I still love the current design.

B. Wait for the next model. What if I don't like the new design. But maybe it'll be better looking? But I don't really want an air styled design. I like the curved rectangle look of the MBPs and MBs. However, regardless of how amazing the new design may look, what about all the issues there could be. The last thing I want to do is be fixing my computer all the time in college.

I really don't think I personally will notice a performance update with Montevina and I don't think the specs will change much. People keep saying it will be thinner, but here's why I disagree:

1. Mac laptops already have heating issues. Make the thing any smaller and it'll overheat (BAD!).
2. The nvidia 8600M is about the best that can fit and the 8800M is larger and creates more heat. Apple needs to future proof itself. If they get too ahead of themselves and make every thing super thin, there will be no room for extra features. Its better to have more space for extra features, than make an already very thin laptop thinner. Honestly, anyone who thinks 1" is too thick needs to take a shopping trip through the PC isle and compare.
3. if they make it thinner, it may resemble the Air's style (all curvy and such). While the air looks amazing, on a larger laptop, all the weird curves make not look right and may make the computer look too complicated and I associate Apple's design with simple. Simple usually is better. What is it I hate about the look of every PC laptop? All the stuff. Too many designs, to busy, and too clunky. I love that when you close a MB or MBP the whole thing is symetric and smooth. Also I'd rather have a solid laptop than one that resembles a wedge from the side (slopes from 1" to .5" or something)

But its a hard decision. I don't want to buy now then see the new one and wish I'd waited. Yet if the new is nothing special, I'll wish I'd bought already.

PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR 2 CENTS!!!! Also does anyone have evidence for a redesign this summer. What if they wait until Nahelem. or will Nahelem premier on the Montevina Platform. Also this mumbo jumbo of the Air raising the bar for Apple's designs. HOW? THe air is a bare minimum computer. You can't create a notebook like the Air and fit the Pro's specs. So what of the air besides keyboard, magnetic latch, and bigger trackpad would they put? Make it curvier?

Get one now and then get the new one later and sell the one you got now.

 

[cyberjunky]

I personally may as-well wait until the redesign as i wont have the money until around easter, even then i might be short so might be 1-2 months after then. So i think its best to wait, apple might decide to put a GPU in by then, just maybe, one can dream. Besides apple has a knack for solving problems other companies dont want to address, if a GPU heating is a problem perhaps apple will come up with a solution, perhaps spread out its surface area and make it flatter to help dissipate heat, and if they did make it thinner and spread it out given the width and height of the MBP perhaps a flat heat sink maybe? im just guessing here of course. Hardware never was my area of expertise, never the less, one can hope.

 

[Digital Skunk]

All this fuss over a "slight" upgrade makes me glad I waited. Instead of ponying up $2000 for the Penryn model, I picked up a 2.2 SR MBP at Amazon for $1500 and change(after MIR). Unfortunately, I won't be getting it until March 12-15.(too cheap to pay for shipping ) My first so I'm looking forward to joining my fellow Mac converts.

Sometimes this is the best reason to wait, and why many people wait. Sometime they aren't waiting to get new machines, just the price drops on the refurbished model from 6 or more months ago.

A Mac Pro is in the works once i have the cash. By that time it will either be a new quad 2.8 or higher, or a refurbished quad 2.8 or higher when the new models come out. Since I think 8 2.8GHz processors more than satisfies my minor multimedia needs, and if I do need to go faster or render quicker there are a few higher spec'd towers at the job.

does anyone know of any speed comparisons between the 2.5 and the 2.6 penryns in the MBpro's... trying to work out if the cost is worth it

cheers for Oz

www.macworld.com gives a pretty good comparison. It showed me that waiting was as good an idea as buying 6 month old technology at current prices. Even now I would opt to get the new machine or at the very least the mid ranged refurbished model.

 

[kuupoika]

Here's my opinion:-
* 100 MHz extra speed hardly counts.
* 6 MB L2 Cache would definitely give a performance boost.
* Obvious difference is the extra 256 MB VRAM that would make a big difference if you are into graphics.

Best link to look for information is the Geekbench Score results page where users submit their Geekbench scores:
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/similar/43457/4
(Mine was 3177 for a 2.4 GHz Penryn base model)

Thanks for that excellent link skiesforme... much appreciated...

the money for the 100 MHz is not too much of an issue for me... I got the previous non-penryn model 2.2 GHz MBpro as a replacement for my PB G4 1.5GHz under AppleCare... so I am selling that... then will salary sacrifice the new penryn machine so in the long run the change over will only cost me around $112 and that is for the upgrade of the 2.5 to 2.6 and the 7200 drive... so not a real issue... more if it is just a plain waste if there is no noticeable speed increase from the 2.5 to the 2.6

 

[kaiwai]

The X4500? It is supposed to have more EU's than the X3100 but it won't be enough to replace a dedicated GPU in the MBP anytime soon. Unless you are referring to the whole Larabee project. But I don't think we will see the fruits of that labor for a good while.

But then again, if you *really* need power, then a laptop isn't for you. A laptops primary function is mobility and power on the go. If you want maximum power, then you need a desktop. I don't know why there are people who think they can wedge a desktop into a laptop without major compromises over performance and battery life.

As for the next generation; I'll be waiting at least 2-3 years before I buy a new laptop; if I am going to spend some money, I'll want at least a very fast upgrade to my current machine, which would be a difficult thing (2.16Ghz is rocket fast IMHO, faster than my old HP dv6209tx I used to own).