Performa 6400 restoration & questions

[James Gryphon]

I dug an old Performa 6400/200 tower up out of the garage some time back, and just now have started trying to work with it in earnest. The machine looks in surprisingly good shape overall, booting and running as well and perhaps better than could be expected. There's a few significant hiccups in the process that I thought I'd ask about here, though.

1) Right now, it has no network connectivity, thanks to being significantly older than every other machine I have, and having no Ethernet card. If I'm going to keep it, this is something I'm going to want to fix. Performa 6400s have two Geoports and one 25-pin SCSI port externally; inside expansion options include a Comm Slot II and two PCI slots. Does anyone have any recommendations for what a good x-to-Ethernet networking solution could be? (Wireless solutions are acceptable, but not expected.)

2) I was going to install System 7.5.3, then update to 7.5.5 (or maybe install 7.6, if I can legally find that somewhere) on it, since I don't have any other machines that can run 7. However, the hard drive (a Caviar 32500-40H) has valuable information on it that I'd like to save before reformatting it. In the absence of either networking or anything I can use for cross-transfer with more space than floppies, I thought I might try putting the HD into another machine and transferring it there. My AGP Power Mac G4 balked, though: the first time, it wouldn't boot from the drive that had been previously connected to it, tossing a blinking system folder. The second time, with just the Performa drive installed and booting from CD, it recognized there was a drive in Disk Setup, but it was 'unknown' and 'read-only'. Since I just took it out this morning, and it was working then, I'm assuming it probably didn't break in between my taking it out and putting it in the G4. So, what could be wrong? It's an EIDE/ATA-2 drive and the jumper is in the 'neutral' position.

3) This is a minor point, but regarding the 7.5.3 installation, the installer script that Apple has in their famous 19-image set 'can't identify the Macintosh' and thus refused to run. It's possible this could be an artifact of the HFS+ partition (which I didn't realize until later was problematic), and that once it's reformatted, the installation will work as it should. Supposing that it doesn't, though (these Performas are rather quirky), does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this? I have plenty of OS 9 installation discs, and some 8, but I don't know whether I have any Sys-7 media besides that which Apple made freely available online. TomeViewer could open up the tomes and extract all of the files, but it does that without any organization, and I'm not real keen on trying to make folders just as the installer would, and attempt to put 300+ files and applications in their proper places.

Thanks for any insight y'all might have to offer. I realize this is a rather niche question.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

You need System 7.5.3 with System Enabler 410 v1.1

Is the IDE drive original Apple?

Sorry, im a little bit sleepy. Can you say what the problems are, in short word.

Old IDE has no cable select, use a master setup

 

[AphoticD]

I used the RTL8139 based Realtek 10/100 Ethernet PCI Card in an older beige Mac many years ago. This was on OS 8/9 so not sure about System 7.x

Having a quick look on the Macintosh Garden, I can see they have the Performa 6400 restore discs ready to download and burn. This would be the easiest option and gets you the correct “Enabler” for your Mac.

 

[velocityg4]

1. Here's a list of cards for the Comm Slot II. You can also use PCI cards for Ethernet. But I don't know any which are System 7.5/7.6 compatible. Just Mac OS 8.6 and higher.

Low End Mac’s Guide to Comm Slots | Low End Mac

2. Mac OS 7.6 feels too much like 8 to not go ahead and use 8.6. I skipped 8 and went straight to 9 back then. As 8 didn't seem worth the cost. I'd use System 7.5 if you want that vintage feel. Otherwise 8.6 for a wider range of compatible PCI cards.

I wasn't aware of an IDE neutral position. I always set them as Master or Slave depending on their position in the IDE chain, Master for just one device. It's been a long time since I've used a Performa 6400.

 

[James Gryphon]

You need System 7.5.3 with System Enabler 410 v1.1

Thanks; there's a lot of those enabler extensions, and it's pretty tricky to sort them out if you're not used to them.

Is the IDE drive original Apple?

Ja, with a large 'made for Apple'-type sticker in the place of the section that would normally contain the jumper setting instructions. This is probably the first time it's been taken out since it was originally put in the computer; I was a little surprised, because it looked brand new.

Sorry, im a little bit sleepy. Can you say what the problems are, in short word.

I'll try to provide a short summary of the status of things at the end of this post.

Old IDE has no cable select, use a master setup

I did try that, but it doesn't seem to make much of a difference how I set it up. I'm about to the point of wondering if the old drive isn't just incompatible in some obscure way with the G4. The connectors look the same, and both drives are known to work generally speaking, but one works great and the other isn't recognized.

I used the RTL8139 based Realtek 10/100 Ethernet PCI Card in an older beige Mac many years ago. This was on OS 8/9 so not sure about System 7.x

A fellow over at Mac Garden said he was able to get one like that to work in "7.5.5+", in a 5400, which is said to be very similar to the 6400, so there's a glimmer of hope there. I'm not sure I'd like to buy one based on hearsay, but it's definitely something I can check into.

Having a quick look on the Macintosh Garden, I can see they have the Performa 6400 restore discs ready to download and burn. This would be the easiest option and gets you the correct “Enabler” for your Mac.

It surely would. Is it technically legal to download those?

1. Here's a list of cards for the Comm Slot II. You can also use PCI cards for Ethernet. But I don't know any which are System 7.5/7.6 compatible. Just Mac OS 8.6 and higher.

It'd be nice to do something with the comm slot, to help maintain the machine's theoretical maximum potential, but since I'm unlikely to find other uses for the PCI slots anyway, whatever's the most compatible and affordable is probably the way to go at this point.

2. Mac OS 7.6 feels too much like 8 to not go ahead and use 8.6. I skipped 8 and went straight to 9 back then. As 8 didn't seem worth the cost. I'd use System 7.5 if you want that vintage feel. Otherwise 8.6 for a wider range of compatible PCI cards.

I think 7's got to be the go-to pick for this machine, partly for sentimental reasons and the desire to have it do something the other machines can't, but partly also because 8.5 is a bit more hefty for it than I'd like. I do appreciate the reassurance about not missing much with 7.6. You're always first inclined to wonder if there's something you missed in the OSes you can't get access to.

I wasn't aware of an IDE neutral position. I always set them as Master or Slave depending on their position in the IDE chain, Master for just one device. It's been a long time since I've used a Performa 6400.

From the best I can judge, based on pictures of non-Apple Caviar 32500s and more recent WD manuals, 'neutral' is equivalent to 'single', and can be applied to spots 5,3 or 6,4. I'm not sure what purpose it serves, though, save to confuse people who move hard drives around.

Current summary/recap:
1) No Ethernet/no networking. Now investigating CSII vs PCI card expansions. Uncertain how well certain Realtek-based PCI Ethernet cards work with System 7.5.5; needs further research.
2) Need to transfer data off working disk before formatting it. Took HD out of Performa and tried connecting it to a G4, which won't read it. After different jumper settings, reason still unknown. (Installing networking would help sidestep this issue.)
3) Apple's free System 7.5 installer claims it's incompatible, and may be. Not yet resolved. (Using other preexisting restore media, if it's readily available, could get around this.)

 

[Project Alice]

I had one of these a few years ago. I think mine was a 6500/250 but I don't totally remember. I ran Mac OS 9.2 on it. It ran fine. Totally forgot they don't have built in Ethernet. You can use any ethernet card that works on OS 9 at that point. I've never used anything older than OS 8.x so, I have no idea on hardware support for System 7.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

1. I have a RTL8169 Gigabit inside my 9600 that work without problems, my RTL8139 sometimes lost the connection.
2. Is a second drive on the cable?
3. I would recommend OS 9, too

 

[weckart]

I have a couple of 6500s and they top out at 128MB of RAM, which doesn't leave a lot of room for OS9. I'd say stick with 7.6/8.1 or maybe BeOS 4.0

 

[Project Alice]

I have a couple of 6500s and they top out at 128MB of RAM, which doesn't leave a lot of room for OS9. I'd say stick with 7.6/8.1 or maybe BeOS 4.0

9 runs fast on like 64MB. I'm almost positive my old one only had 32MB and I never had a problem running 9 on it. I took it all the way to 9.2.2 with OS9 helper.

 

[Amethyst1]

You ain't seen nothing yet until you have run Jag with 32MB.

 

[Project Alice]

You ain't seen nothing yet until you have run Jag with 32MB.

I've accidentally booted Leopard on a Mac with 64MB lol. I didn't realize I had booted into Leopard, I was trying to boot Tiger (Sawtooth G4 and was using a FW disk with Leopard and Tiger). About 10-15 Minutes later it booted to the Leopard desktop and I realized why it took so long...

 

[TzunamiOSX]

I have a couple of 6500s and they top out at 128MB of RAM, which doesn't leave a lot of room for OS9. I'd say stick with 7.6/8.1 or maybe BeOS 4.0

I have OS 9 on a PowerBook 500 PPC with 40 MB and the system works well (with RAM Doubler). Only Problem ist Classilla who has problems with only 40 MB physical RAM

 

[James Gryphon]

Thanks for the card tips!

I think the system requirements are a valid consideration, but they're not really the main one. What probably influences my decision is that my 9 quota is already filled; the AGP/Sawtooth running 9.2.2 can do a better job of it than the Performa is ever likely to, and there's a few other similar G3/G4 machines in disrepair that could run 9 if they were fixed. None of them could run or even attempt to run 7, though, which makes the Performa relatively unique in that regard, of the machines I have ready access to.

As far as the drive goes, I'd tried it both ways, alone and with the drive that normally went in that other machine.

At this point, I think I've started to figure out that at least some of my problems in this area are caused by poor motor skills. The hard drive was good at the time I first took it out from the Performa, but somewhere in between then and my most recent difficulties, I managed to bend some pins, including one particularly bad bend that I didn't see until last night. It can probably be bent back, but I doubt whether I can do it, seeing that I also managed to take out a female Molex connector inside the G4, and likely failed to properly reseat the Performa logic board attempting to slide it back in. Any step that requires any kind of physical precision means that I have an extra chance to break something, so I'm arguably worse off now than I was when the machine was just sitting in the garage.

Ja, I'm a bit frustrated.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

Thanks for the card tips!

I think the system requirements are a valid consideration, but they're not really the main one. What probably influences my decision is that my 9 quota is already filled; the AGP/Sawtooth running 9.2.2 can do a better job of it than the Performa is ever likely to, and there's a few other similar G3/G4 machines in disrepair that could run 9 if they were fixed. None of them could run or even attempt to run 7, though, which makes the Performa relatively unique in that regard, of the machines I have ready access to.

As far as the drive goes, I'd tried it both ways, alone and with the drive that normally went in that other machine.

At this point, I think I've started to figure out that at least some of my problems in this area are caused by poor motor skills. The hard drive was good at the time I first took it out from the Performa, but somewhere in between then and my most recent difficulties, I managed to bend some pins, including one particularly bad bend that I didn't see until last night. It can probably be bent back, but I doubt whether I can do it, seeing that I also managed to take out a female Molex connector inside the G4, and likely failed to properly reseat the Performa logic board attempting to slide it back in. Any step that requires any kind of physical precision means that I have an extra chance to break something, so I'm arguably worse off now than I was when the machine was just sitting in the garage.

Ja, I'm a bit frustrated.

When you need the driver for the Network cards under OS 9, whisper me (there are hard to find).

Tip 1: Don't use a hammer to connect a harddrive to a cable ?
Tip 2: Dont work in the dark, because you are not Batman.