Photo collection storage

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Flunkyturtle, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Flunkyturtle macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    #1
    Need some help looking into more storage for my photo collection. I'm currently doing editing on a RMB + samsung 27 inch screen

    I'm looking into some form of raid enclosure.

    Looking for recommendations.

    Needs to connect via USB 3 as thats the only connection my apple hub has!

    I'm not fussed about NAS
     
  2. pixelcoder macrumors newbie

    pixelcoder

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    #2
    How about a Drobo? They have various sizes (not meaning diskspace) depending on your needs.
    I personally have a QNAP NAS without USB connection.
    Generally speaking, look how much diskspace you need, do your research on RAID and which type of RAID is right for you (RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 5, RAID 10,...) and go from there.
     
  3. Flunkyturtle thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    #3
    I've been looking into the drobo but they have such a bad name for failures. Really putting me off reading them!
     
  4. sarge macrumors 6502a

    sarge

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    Location:
    Brooklyn
    #4
  5. LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks macrumors member

    LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Location:
    Alameda
    #5
    If Drobo's have a bad name, it's because they are so popular. I've used them for years with no issues. When a drive fails, I just slap in a new one, an a few minutes later I'm good to go. I've used Drobo's since 2008, and never had any of my three die. I think theres some Drobo haters out there, that just like to stir the ****, much like the Apple haters from 10~20 years ago.

    The Drobo 3rd gen I've been using for the last 1.5 years has been perfect. It's fast enough @ 225 MBps(read/write). My internal raid on my 09 tower is only around 175 MBps because of the old SATA interface, so my system drives are my bottle neck. The current 3rd gens at under $300. making them a really good solution(imo).
     
  6. Flunkyturtle thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    #6
    Good to hear I ordered a gen 3 yesterday :)
     
  7. LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks macrumors member

    LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Location:
    Alameda
    #7
    I think you'll like it. When you get it, before you turn on, install drives(with no wanted data, as they will get wiped by Drobo), then turn it on and wait a few minutes. The Dashboard app will find the drives, then use the app to format.

    There's a slide bar(in app) that will need to be set 16TB for future expansion. This will misinform the OS that you have 16TB of drives(Stupid), even if you have 1~12TB. But it's necessary if you want to add larger drives on the fly. Dashboard app will give you the correct capacity.
     
  8. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    #8
    You might divide the enclosures into two camps - those which your computer controls and those which have their own chipset/firmware that does the RAID for you. Each has its merits and pitfalls.

    About RAID - if you go with the more traditional setups there is 1, 3, 5, 6, 01, 10 that provide a level of protection against drive failure. Other types of RAID setups have a more proprietary style of blended RAID such as the Drobo.

    If you are wanting the minimum, go with RAID 1 which is two drives being mirrored so that if one fails, the other has your data unharmed. For most people, RAID 1, 6 and 10 are excellent options for safe storage. RAID 6 is akin to RAID 5 but allows for two drives to fail rather than one.

    I would imagine that Caldigit, OWC and a few other makers have some excellent offerings that you would do quite well with and of course make sure you investigate your selection first for fan noise and user comments (usually about failures and noise etc.).
     
  9. Flunkyturtle thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    #9
    Set it up exactly as you've said yesterday - Two WD RED 3tb drives setup in RAID 1

    Will likely add one more drive for dual reduncancy buti think this is more than fine for the time being.

    Only downside is i genuinely forgot how loud 3.5" HDD's are!

    I've been so spoilt with SSD for everything.
     
  10. glenthompson macrumors 68000

    glenthompson

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    #10
    Just a reminder that a RAID setup is for data availability and not backup. If the enclosure fails, get stolen, or dies in a fire, the RAID will do nothing for getting your data back. Make sure you have some other form of backup. At a minimum you want at least 3 copies of your data with one of those being off-site.
     
  11. Flunkyturtle thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    #11
    I also use Dropbox :)
     
  12. glenthompson macrumors 68000

    glenthompson

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    Apr 27, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    #12
    If you overwrite some files and those changes get synced to DropBox, how are you going to get the originals back?
     
  13. Flunkyturtle thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    #13
    It doesn't sync automatically. I only upload once a week
     
  14. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Location:
    Auckland
    #14
    Just recover them as here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/en/help/296
     
  15. LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks macrumors member

    LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Location:
    Alameda
    #15
    Thats ridiculous. Two copies is more than enough. Just having one backup puts the odds in your favor of not losing any data.

    I've been running a Mac since 1988, and I've never had any data loss. Most of that time was with one backup. I only started using two backups when Time machine was released(only because I like having a bootable backup).
     
  16. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #16
    You're experience is not statistically significant. Had you said that you have benn in charge of 1,000 computers then it would be. But one computer is not enough to tel you much.

    The rule of thumb is that at all times you should have both of the following conditions
    1) Data exist on three difference physical media (a RAID box counts as one)
    2) Data should exist at two different geographical locations
    The above must be true even during a backup operation

    You need THREE copies because the must likely time for a failure is during a backup. A backup stresses the hardware and if it's going to fail that is when it could fail. Then with an incomplete backup you have zero redundancy. Having three copies means you still have a backup even after a failure

    The main threat to the data is not a failed disk drive. It is
    1) Silent file corruption caused by software or operator error. What happens is a file gets deleted or damaged then you do a backup and in the process over write the only good early copy of the file with the later damaged version. You will not know this happened until later. You need a versioning backup system to address this. Time Machine works for this as do several of the on-line backup companies. Any backup system that overwrites the old data with the current version will not address this problem.

    All that said if this is all just a hobby theft's no big deal, do what you like if this is simply for personal entertainment. But ig you have client's data and you professional reputation and ability to earn a living depends on this data then you might go past the minimum and keep fur copies at three locations

    I do this:
    1) original on-line copy of data
    2) on-line Time Machine makes hourly versioned backups
    3) On-line backup service keeps automatically up to date, date is continuously sent.
    4) I have a fire safe with disk drives that hold copies of my data


    A while back I was looking at some 100+ year old photos I got from my grandmother, years ago. I bet that in 100 years there will be VERY few 100 year old photos because almost no one keeps backups properly. It is VERY hard to design a system that will keep data for 100 years. OK I might be wrong if people move data to the cloud, their it is managed by professionals.
     
  17. LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks macrumors member

    LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
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    Alameda
    #17
    I think 27 years without any data lost is proof enough. Typical forum BS, when someone comes up with crap like, Had you said that you have benn in charge of 1,000 computers then it would be.

    Most folks in this forum are not in charge of 1,000 computers. And even if they were, it makes no difference wither it's one or a thousand. I'll stick with what works, and you do the same. Don't tell me my system does not work, as I've proved it does.
     
  18. phrehdd macrumors 68040

    phrehdd

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    #18
    Not easy to convey this thought but I'll try. Based on a few years of professional experience, there is a topic that is often misunderstood called "Risk Management." With respect to this thread, it may apply to risks associated with no backup, single backup and multiple backups as well as location of the backup (as well as restore processes which was never mentioned here). What you offer is not atypical of most non-professionals. A single backup seems to be cheap, easy and then of course popular. Having another copy "off sight" helps in the case when both copies at home of a given file are suspect, corrupted or unable to access/restore. I have had people ask me what to do when their computer and other storage got "zapped" by power issues. Naturally, I can tell them to next time use some power protection but the answer they needed was about resources for restoring and access. It turned out for one person to be quite costly going to a pro service to get his data. I tend to go along with Chris on this one as he mentions a tried and true method that minimizes risk. You method so far has worked for you and I hope it continues to work for you. Just remember, its about a gamble or acceptance of risk and both probability and potential for "crisis."
     
  19. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #19
    Ok, I claim

    1) there is a zero change that I will ever be struck by lightening because in over 50 years I have never been struck by lightening.

    2) I will never be killed in a car crash because in many years of driving I have never been killed in a car crash

    3) My house will never burn down because it was built 73 years ago and has not burned down in all that time so it is likely never to burn down.

    4) I will never loose all the data on my computer because in many years I have never lost all the data on my computer.

    I claim ALL of the above uses the same reasoning. The statements might even turn out to be correct but the question is "HOW CONFIDENT can you be in them?" What is the chance that one of the above might be wrong? Given ONLY my experience I can't answer that.

    This is not stuff people made up in on-line forums. It is stuff taught in every "statistics 101" class. You can Google "Confidence Interval" or just accept the results -- you can have exactly zero confidence is statements (like the above) made from one data point.

    But note that I don't say they are wrong, only that there is not reason to believe them.

    On the other hand the industry accepted rules of thumb as based on the results of many thousands of cases. And Yes, many people do manage thousands of computers. It is a common IT type job. Any moderate sized or large company will have MANY computers and some people in charge of supporting them.


    Again, what to do spends on how bad loosing the data would be. If you were a bank and lost all of your accounting data it would be a disaster. If the data are just downloaded music for personal use then loss of the data is just an inconvenience. In between is the video production company were loss of data means loosing a client (and likely some future clients as words gets around.) Different amounts of care are required for each case. The rule of "three copies in two locations" would be the MINIMUM I'd accept for the video production company but might be overkill for an MP3 music collection and woefully inadequate for a bank.
     
  20. LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks macrumors member

    LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Location:
    Alameda
    #20
    Cool, thank you for your opinion, thats all it is, Your opinion and not fact. Try to remember that.
     
  21. entropyfl macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    #21
    im to late! i was going to say avoid like the plague.. I have a 2nd gen drobo which I have a love/hate relationship with.. I find it incredibly slow when transferring data and when iv'e had a drive failure its taken a couple of days to rebuild.

    I also found that its slow to boot up when I turn my iMac on and it can make the iMac hang whilst its reading the discs etc.

    Once you get your data on the drives its usable but just shame its so slow. they say the 3rd gen and 5d are miles better so hopefully you'll have a good experience.

    Drobo support has been fantastic so you'll be happy with that if you get any issues.
     
  22. LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks macrumors member

    LifeIsLikeABoxOfRocks

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Location:
    Alameda
    #22
    No reason at all to avoid it like a plague. If you did a little research before you bought a Drobo(as I did), there will be no surprises. I've never had any issues (since 08) with Drobo enclosures or there more than helpful customer service.

    In fact most of the problems with Drobo are user error. I've talked and read post where the user got tired of waiting for the Drobo to rebuild the array, and turned it off, as to start over. I've never done anything so stupid. When losing a drive on a Drobo, I replace it and forget it. The Drobo will do it's work in the background, as long as someone does not turn it off.
     
  23. dwfaust macrumors 68040

    dwfaust

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2011
    Location:
    I am here =>[*]
    #23
    I've had a Drobo 5N (gigabit Ethernet connection) for about 5 years now, and the only issues that I've had is a couple of failed drives. Rock solid. I would not hesitate to recommend Drobo to anyone.
     
  24. glenthompson macrumors 68000

    glenthompson

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    #24
    After 35 years in IT with many years of working with disaster recovery planning and testing I get very particular about my personal data. Having gone paperless for all my records, good backups and a recovery plan are critical. I may do more than most people need but I'm fairly well covered in all the expected disasters. If I break into your house and steal your Mac and your backup drives, how are you getting your data back?

    Read some of the other forums and hear the horror stories of people losing all their digital pictures of the kids growing up just because they had inadequate backup. Look at the news in California and see the houses burned to the ground in the wildfires. What are the chances that they got their computers and backups out of the fire?

    Your data so you can handle it like you want but don't dismiss well established best practices for data backup and data recovery.
     
  25. maxsix Suspended

    maxsix

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2015
    Location:
    Western Hemisphere
    #25
    My Synology DS1515 is fast reliable and secure. We have forty two of them deployed at work without a single failure
     

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