Photo Raw 2020

MCAsan

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Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
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ON1 today released the public beta of Photo Raw 2020. Several new or improved items I like:
  1. faster performance using GPUs
  2. print module
  3. custom camera profiles
  4. sun flare and star effects filter
  5. focus mask (focus areas in green) which should be a big help in culling
Official release will be in October. They are building a video editor and a version of Photo Raw for IOS and Android for Q1 2021.

 
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Freida

macrumors 68000
Oct 22, 2010
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Still no frequency separation feature. Whats wrong with these companies claiming to be for photographers etc. but not including this?
 

Fishrrman

macrumors P6
Feb 20, 2009
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Fred wrote:
"Performance is better than 2019 version but still not up to Lightroom 6."

I tried the beta and it seemed... s_l_o_w on a 2018 Mini.
No thanks.
 

MCAsan

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Original poster
Jul 9, 2012
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Likely part of the slow performance is that PR 2020, like most newer photo apps, can and will use a GPU to do display rendering and editing work. Mini does not have a dedicated GPU unless you add an external one via TB3.
- - Post merged: - -

The huge difference in Lr and PR 2020 is the huge gap in features/capabilities. Lr does not do layers and it does not have the effects filters found in PR 2020. Or course if you pay for Lr you have access to Ps and there you can do layers and effects.
 

iluvmacs99

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Apr 9, 2019
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I second with the GPU usage. I bought one of the early ON1 suite packages in 2015 and I was so disappointed that I wasted good money on it when I tried to use it on my 2011 Mac Mini and it was dog slow as molasses and I didn't understand why it was so. So I shelved it for 4 years; until this year I bought a used Mac Pro 5,1 and added a RX580 GPU and decided to try ON1 suite again. This time, the editing and rendering were so fast and usable; it was a big surprise. Without a capable GPU, ON1 is useless. With a powerful GPU, ON1 is very usable albeit took me 4 years wait to realize this.
 

whiteonline

macrumors 6502a
Aug 19, 2011
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California, USA
I'm waiting to see how capable their 2020 Mobile editor is. If it gives LR CC a run for the money, I may be in (I am doing more and more on iPad Pro). I like the agnostic cloud integration versus Adobe's mandatory offering.
 

FredT2

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Mar 18, 2009
558
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Likely part of the slow performance is that PR 2020, like most newer photo apps, can and will use a GPU to do display rendering and editing work. Mini does not have a dedicated GPU unless you add an external one via TB3.
I have a machine with a very good GPU, and both 2019 and 2020 run slower than LR. I don't know what's happening, but with 2020 editing, slider are very laggy, much worse than 2019. 2019 is actually pretty good in that respect. It is still a beta, so maybe they have some fine tuning to do.
 

stillcrazyman

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Oct 10, 2014
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I currently have ON1 PR2019.6 and thought I'd try the beta of PR2020. I got the same issues with my eGPU crashing my system like when I first got PR2019. So, disconnected the eGPU and ran the beta on my 2018 Mini (32GB/i7). Slow doesn't quite describe it. I thought my Mini had frozen a few times.
Uninstalled the beta, and all the cruft that installers put in. Tried the previous version and got annoyed with the eGPU crashing again. So, that's the final straw. No more ON1. I completely removed any and all traces of that app from my Mini.

I hadn't been using PR2019 as much since I had moved my workflow to Exposure X4 (now X5). So, I am quite happy to continue on with only one app.
 

SkiHound2

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Jul 15, 2018
167
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I've been using On1 Raw for a while. There's certainly been some growing pains. 2019 was pretty much unusable on an older mac mini. I upgraded to the 2019 iMac with 580x and I find the performance of the 2020 beta to be pretty dang good. I've gotten to like the browse module pretty well. I like the integration of layers into the basic workflow. I do think there are some tools in PS that nothing else (at least nothing else I've tried) can match. But for my needs, the workflow in On1 Raw is much more convenient than the LR/PS combination. For the first time, I'm actually thinking I may drop the Adobe subscription.
 

FredT2

macrumors 6502a
Mar 18, 2009
558
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Well, the latest beta seems to have changed thing regarding performance to a very large degree. Scrolling, brushes, color adjustment, loading images all seem quick with very little lag anywhere. Quite impressive.
 

tizeye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2013
791
4,906
Orlando, FL
About to have an argument with Adobe today and will have On1 2019 as primary. Prefer to purchase the annual plan at local store (where get additional store benefits) rather than online with Adobe. Plan ran out 10/11, Adobe switched to their monthly, no email advising of the charge but see invoice in account due 10/18 but reviewing my credit card they force on the account was paid 10/12 with no warning. Also having major issue with workflow issue in Lightroom as uncomfortable with the On1 workflow was the reason retained Lightroom. Over past few month noticed Star rating disappeared from bottom of photo in Library module and had to use right panel to star rate (Develop module remained at bottom of photo). Yesterday loaded new photos per usual and star rating ability totally disappeared in the Library Module so I rated them in the Develop module and could see them rated in the filmstrip, both Library and Develop modules. Went to filter them all 5 stars and returned gray screen and error message "No photos selected". Tried again after selecting all on the filmstrip and same error message. Have help request in with Adobe Community but suggestions thus far have not resolved.

Very bad timing for that to occur so looks like have an additional incentive to get use to the On1 workflow and update to 2020. Just have to get Adobe to cancel what they did 3 days ago. At worse, I can always buy a pre-paid at Best Buy and reactivate like I planned to.
 

tizeye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2013
791
4,906
Orlando, FL
UPDATE- Adobe backed out the payment and cancelled the account. Should be interesting as I have 2 photo shoots tomorrow and I know Photoshop like the back of my hand. Really wish Corel had a Mac version of Paintshop Pro which I used since a shareware program and through JASC and Corel ownership until switching to Photoshop in 2007, but they ignored all the Mac version requests. You snooze, you lose...looks like it will be On 1 as at least it can do actual layers where Affinity, Capture One and others can't (I don't consider masking a single image a "layer" as they call it - must have multiple images to take the good parts from to create the final image).

If successful, my "dump adobe" will be complete was able to downgrade to the Photography plan a couple years ago dropping the full CC. Just couldn't find a suitable Photoshop replacement, so will see how this goes.
 
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tizeye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2013
791
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Orlando, FL
When frequency separation, please?
You do realized in Photoshop there are generally 5 different ways to do the same exact thing...and then there are plug-ins. In 15 years of Photoshop never used frequency separation, setting up specific layers for high an low separation on color and texture but used other tools to do the same in portrait re-touching. In On1, can accomplish the same with dodging, burning, masking, erasing blemishes further enhanced with the portrait module in edit. Haven't tried layers but would be an interesting experiment to see if several layers of the same photo where each layer adjusted to mimic frequency separation. I did notice that my NIK plugins transferred over as saw in the menu structure...but haven't used them.
 

Freida

macrumors 68000
Oct 22, 2010
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Yes I do but I don't have photoshop and I have no desire to get it :)
True, but FS would be super handy tool and if ON1 wants to get more portraiture photographers I feel it should be implemented soon rather than later. Everytime there is a new version I look at the list and see things like "you can resize now etc." (literally basic things) but nothing really serious. I've been waiting since 2017 and people even asked on their forum and still nothing.
Their skin workflow is not really for me. Always too soft and it doesn't really produce amazing skins so I always laugh when I see their "promotion" for portraiture photography. :)


You do realized in Photoshop there are generally 5 different ways to do the same exact thing...and then there are plug-ins. In 15 years of Photoshop never used frequency separation, setting up specific layers for high an low separation on color and texture but used other tools to do the same in portrait re-touching. In On1, can accomplish the same with dodging, burning, masking, erasing blemishes further enhanced with the portrait module in edit. Haven't tried layers but would be an interesting experiment to see if several layers of the same photo where each layer adjusted to mimic frequency separation. I did notice that my NIK plugins transferred over as saw in the menu structure...but haven't used them.
 

tizeye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2013
791
4,906
Orlando, FL
Yes I do but I don't have photoshop and I have no desire to get it :)
True, but FS would be super handy tool and if ON1 wants to get more portraiture photographers I feel it should be implemented soon rather than later. Everytime there is a new version I look at the list and see things like "you can resize now etc." (literally basic things) but nothing really serious. I've been waiting since 2017 and people even asked on their forum and still nothing.
Their skin workflow is not really for me. Always too soft and it doesn't really produce amazing skins so I always laugh when I see their "promotion" for portraiture photography. :)
Interesting.You don't own Photoshop and have no desire to get it, yet you knock On1 for lacking a feature you don't use anyway while giving the impression that you do and it is a deal killer. A better question is...what is your current workflow with portraits and how does On1 accommodate that workflow. While I don't typically do portraits, it is the workflow issue that I am dealing with now as my Lightroom/Photoshop subscription officially expired Oct 11 and seeing if can totally replace (like I did the full CC suite a couple years ago). On1 is one of the few that has actual layers capability where competition (like Capture One) is limited to single file and applying a mask which they call layers. The tale-tale sign is when they don't have tutorials on sky replacement which requires two separate files. Layers did work well in architectural photography, removing reflection as had several tripod based shots of the same subject with different lighting. While probably a new user issue, did lose the layers while working on them, but appear moved down and out of the frame view with a sub-menu opening up to micro-adjust the layer. Didn't pay attention to what those adjustment sliders were but would be interesting if allowed setting high and (copy layer) low frequencies. I do agree with you on the canned effect as I avoid them, but even then they would be a starting point to further adjust.
 

Freida

macrumors 68000
Oct 22, 2010
1,906
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I've been shown what FS can do and I wanted it ever since. :)
I can go for Affinity but I didn't really like that program much. In fact, I kinda wait and see what gets it first (Pixelmator Pro or ON1) and then I'll get that and won't look back. I currently have ON1 Raw which I bought in 2017 so its few versions old. No desire to upgrade until it has the FS.

Alternatively, I'm debating iPad Pro with Affinity but I wasn't so keen on their desktop version but could "force" myself to get over it :)

So now, I'm doing the waiting game. I don't do this for living - its just a hobby so I have the luxury of time. :)
And Adobe I hate out of principle. In fact, any subscription based software is a no no for me. It works great for people who use it all the time but for someone who uses it just ocassionally it is a big waste of money. :)




Interesting.You don't own Photoshop and have no desire to get it, yet you knock On1 for lacking a feature you don't use anyway while giving the impression that you do and it is a deal killer. A better question is...what is your current workflow with portraits and how does On1 accommodate that workflow. While I don't typically do portraits, it is the workflow issue that I am dealing with now as my Lightroom/Photoshop subscription officially expired Oct 11 and seeing if can totally replace (like I did the full CC suite a couple years ago). On1 is one of the few that has actual layers capability where competition (like Capture One) is limited to single file and applying a mask which they call layers. The tale-tale sign is when they don't have tutorials on sky replacement which requires two separate files. Layers did work well in architectural photography, removing reflection as had several tripod based shots of the same subject with different lighting. While probably a new user issue, did lose the layers while working on them, but appear moved down and out of the frame view with a sub-menu opening up to micro-adjust the layer. Didn't pay attention to what those adjustment sliders were but would be interesting if allowed setting high and (copy layer) low frequencies. I do agree with you on the canned effect as I avoid them, but even then they would be a starting point to further adjust.
 

tizeye

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2013
791
4,906
Orlando, FL
I agree with you on Affinity. Just seems really clunky, not that intuitive (or over simplified hiding everything), and really dislike their purchase policy if you have a Windows and an Apple you have to buy each version even though you can load it on two machines.

Another program - and I don't know if it works on Apple, is Paintshop Pro. DISCLAIMER: I have used Paintshop (Pro) in it various version from when it was one of the original 3 "must have" shareware programs, through it's successful jump to commercial with ownership by JASC and now Corel. Problem is, while the Lightroom equivalent DAM program, After Effects, is both Windows and Mac, Corel has never developed Paintshop Pro for the MAC despite people asking for it, and 'solution' to run under Bootcamp. If On1 didn't work out - which looks like it will - that was on my shortlist. They offer a 30 day trial and was going to try under Parallels, but holding off with that experiment despite having Parallels for one other stock charting program (TC2000). Just don't know if would be able to load files on the Apple side of a formatted drive as Windows couldn't read it.

That said, you may find this interesting. Based on a forum tutorial in 2012, updated in 2014, Appears Paintshop pro can do frequency separation. There may be newer info with more recent versions but wasn't going to search.
 
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