Photoshop CS5:" qualified" graphics card needed?

FourCandles

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 10, 2009
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This from the Adobe Photoshop CS5 system requirements page:

"1024x768 display (1280x800 recommended) with qualified hardware-accelerated OpenGL graphics card, 16-bit color, and 256MB of VRAM"

Note that this is the general requirements to run the program, not for the GPU-accelerated features that need further support for Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0.

However, there's no explanation of what exactly is a "qualified" graphics card.

It's been raised on John Nack's blog, but with no answer as yet (as of 13th April, John is "looking for more details").

So, anyone any ideas? Does this mean for example that PS CS5 won't run on a Mac without a discrete video card (i.e. all Mac Minis, low end MacBook Pros, the MacBook, and low end iMacs)?

The 256MB requirement would also seem to eliminate earlier aluminium iMacs with the 128MB cards and most of the white Intel iMacs.

Any help much appreciated - thanks.
 

heyendo30

macrumors newbie
Apr 10, 2010
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Qualified should mean that it is supported by OpenGL.

Apple has a list of the cards it supports for Snow Leopard (which has OpenGL), and they are:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce 8600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GS, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX5600

ATI Radeon HD 4670, ATI Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4870

(http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html)

( To that add the new cards on the MacBook Pro's)...

Every current Mac will thus be able to run PS CS5. So will all the "last-generation" Macbook Pro's. (NVIDIA 9400M)...

The 256 MB VRAM speaks for itself. (I think all the supported cards have 256 MB anyway).

Nothing strange here really. 256 isn't much at all nowadays; I don't think computers with less can be found on sale, with the exception of netbooks.
 

decksnap

macrumors 68040
Apr 11, 2003
3,068
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So why is that a requirement now? How much more bloated can this software get?
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
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Canada
Here's the complete list of cards (not including the newest ones):

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M,
GeForce 9600M GT,
GeForce 8600M GT,
GeForce GT 120,
GeForce GT 130,
GeForce GTX 285,
GeForce 8800 GT,
GeForce 8800 GS,
Quadro FX 4800,
Quadro FX5600

ATI Radeon HD 4670,
ATI Radeon HD 4850,
Radeon HD 4870
 

FourCandles

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Feb 10, 2009
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@*LTD*, @heyendo30 - Thanks for the clarifications. That's reassurance about the suitability of the current Mac line up. From the wording on the Adobe site, it seemed as if they were going to be deciding what is a "qualified" device.

@decksnap: I can't figure out why this is included either; as I said there are further requirements for the GPU-accelerated features. Maybe there's an error and these graphics requirements are actually for the extra 3D / video features in Extended?
 

Matthew Yohe

macrumors 68020
Oct 12, 2006
2,198
129
Qualified should mean that it is supported by OpenGL.

Apple has a list of the cards it supports for Snow Leopard (which has OpenGL), and they are:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce 8600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GS, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX5600

ATI Radeon HD 4670, ATI Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4870

(http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html)

( To that add the new cards on the MacBook Pro's)...

Every current Mac will thus be able to run PS CS5. So will all the "last-generation" Macbook Pro's. (NVIDIA 9400M)...

The 256 MB VRAM speaks for itself. (I think all the supported cards have 256 MB anyway).

Nothing strange here really. 256 isn't much at all nowadays; I don't think computers with less can be found on sale, with the exception of netbooks.
Here's the complete list of cards (not including the newest ones):

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M,
GeForce 9600M GT,
GeForce 8600M GT,
GeForce GT 120,
GeForce GT 130,
GeForce GTX 285,
GeForce 8800 GT,
GeForce 8800 GS,
Quadro FX 4800,
Quadro FX5600

ATI Radeon HD 4670,
ATI Radeon HD 4850,
Radeon HD 4870
Both of you are wrong.

You are both listing the OpenCL cards, which is not OpenGL.

Someone else will come out with what this really means, but if I had to guess, if you download GLView and have 100% support for 2.0 and have 256MB of VRAM then you're fine.

As an example, my 8,1 iMac has a ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO. It will qualify.
 

jerryrock

macrumors 6502
Sep 11, 2007
429
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Amsterdam, NY
I have been beta testing Photoshop CS5 on both my MacPro (2.66 Ghz quad Xeon with ATI X1900XT video card with 512 vram) and Macbook Pro 2.5 Ghz Core 2 Duo with NVidia GeForce 8600M GT video card with 512 vram).

I can tell you that some advanced Open GL features in Photoshop CS5 are not supported by the ATI X1900XT GPU while it fully supports the GeForce 8600M GT GPU.
 

juanm

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2006
1,576
2,994
Fury 161
I have been beta testing Photoshop CS5 on both my MacPro (2.66 Ghz quad Xeon with ATI X1900XT video card with 512 vram) and Macbook Pro 2.5 Ghz Core 2 Duo with NVidia GeForce 8600M GT video card with 512 vram).

I can tell you that some advanced Open GL features in Photoshop CS5 are not supported by the ATI X1900XT GPU while it fully supports the GeForce 8600M GT GPU.
What advanced features are you referring to? Anything worth the hassle of upgrading?
 

Nostromo

macrumors 65816
Dec 26, 2009
1,358
2
Deep Space
Qualified should mean that it is supported by OpenGL.

Apple has a list of the cards it supports for Snow Leopard (which has OpenGL), and they are:

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce 8600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130, GeForce GTX 285, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GS, Quadro FX 4800, Quadro FX5600

ATI Radeon HD 4670, ATI Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4870

(http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html)

( To that add the new cards on the MacBook Pro's)...

Every current Mac will thus be able to run PS CS5. So will all the "last-generation" Macbook Pro's. (NVIDIA 9400M)...

The 256 MB VRAM speaks for itself. (I think all the supported cards have 256 MB anyway).

Nothing strange here really. 256 isn't much at all nowadays; I don't think computers with less can be found on sale, with the exception of netbooks.
I have the GForce 7600 GT with 256 Mb Vram. It's not on your Snow Leopard list, but I am still running Snow Leopard.

What does this mean? That this card is "not really" supported by Snow Leopard and I cannot trust my colors?

Both of you are wrong.

You are both listing the OpenCL cards, which is not OpenGL.

Someone else will come out with what this really means, but if I had to guess, if you download GLView and have 100% support for 2.0 and have 256MB of VRAM then you're fine.

As an example, my 8,1 iMac has a ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO. It will qualify.
So this means I won't have trouble with my G-force 7600 GT?

But I have to download this particular software from the source you gave to be able to run Photoshop CS 5 ( on 24" iMac with Core 2 Duo)?
 

netnothing

macrumors 68040
Mar 13, 2007
3,674
305
NH
I can tell you that some advanced Open GL features in Photoshop CS5 are not supported by the ATI X1900XT GPU while it fully supports the GeForce 8600M GT GPU.
Can you elaborate on what advanced features aren't enabled?

-Kevin
 

kevingaffney

macrumors 6502a
Aug 17, 2008
569
32
Isn't it interesting whenever a software update is released with additional or improved features, there are always knockers willing to complain the software is bloated. What difference does it make. If you want the extra features, buy it. If you don't need them, stick with your current version
 

jerryrock

macrumors 6502
Sep 11, 2007
429
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Amsterdam, NY
Can you elaborate on what advanced features aren't enabled?

-Kevin
When OpenGL is enabled in Photoshop CS5, there are 3 selectable modes available. Basic, Normal and Advanced.

Basic - This mode used the least amount of GPU memory and the most basic OpenGL features. Use this mode when experiencing visual defects or general slowdowns in your document window or when running other applications that preoccupy the GPU.

Normal - THis mode uses a large amount of GPU memory and advanced OPenGL features to perform color matching, tone mapping and checkerboard blending. This frees the CPU to perform other tasks but may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

Advanced - This mode is the most GPU intensive. It uses the same amount of memory as the Normal mode while enabling more advanced techniques to improve drawing performance. This may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

The ATI X1900XT is only supported in Basic Mode while the NVidia Geforce 8600M GT is supported in all three modes.
 

netnothing

macrumors 68040
Mar 13, 2007
3,674
305
NH
When OpenGL is enabled in Photoshop CS5, there are 3 selectable modes available. Basic, Normal and Advanced.

Basic - This mode used the least amount of GPU memory and the most basic OpenGL features. Use this mode when experiencing visual defects or general slowdowns in your document window or when running other applications that preoccupy the GPU.

Normal - THis mode uses a large amount of GPU memory and advanced OPenGL features to perform color matching, tone mapping and checkerboard blending. This frees the CPU to perform other tasks but may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

Advanced - This mode is the most GPU intensive. It uses the same amount of memory as the Normal mode while enabling more advanced techniques to improve drawing performance. This may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

The ATI X1900XT is only supported in Basic Mode while the NVidia Geforce 8600M GT is supported in all three modes.
Thanks. I'm guessing this is more about having the ability to offload processing to the GPU rather than losing functionality in the app?

For example, I'm on an old 7300 GT, so I have no doubt I'd be stuck in the Basic mode. But from a features standpoint, I'm guessing I can still do everything I need to in PS, it's just I have to rely on the CPU for everything. Sad that Adobe really dropped the ball on Multi-threading in CS5....guess they are putting all their eggs in the GPU basket.

I don't do 3D renders or anything fancy in PS.....I just use it in web development and photo touchups. I love the features in CS5 that I'm seeing so far....the one thing I'm not happy with is the upgrade pricing from CS3 (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/901248/). :mad:

-Kevin
 

Nostromo

macrumors 65816
Dec 26, 2009
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When OpenGL is enabled in Photoshop CS5, there are 3 selectable modes available. Basic, Normal and Advanced.

Basic - This mode used the least amount of GPU memory and the most basic OpenGL features. Use this mode when experiencing visual defects or general slowdowns in your document window or when running other applications that preoccupy the GPU.

Normal - THis mode uses a large amount of GPU memory and advanced OPenGL features to perform color matching, tone mapping and checkerboard blending. This frees the CPU to perform other tasks but may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

Advanced - This mode is the most GPU intensive. It uses the same amount of memory as the Normal mode while enabling more advanced techniques to improve drawing performance. This may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

The ATI X1900XT is only supported in Basic Mode while the NVidia Geforce 8600M GT is supported in all three modes.
Which mode would the 7600GT be able to run? It has 256 Mb of RAM.
 

netnothing

macrumors 68040
Mar 13, 2007
3,674
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NH
Not really, for example InDesign is now multi-threaded so you can continue working while writing pdfs. I'm really looking forward to this and it will obviously work on any intel dual-core machine.
Sorry....meant to say that they are dropping the ball on multi-threading in Photoshop CS5.

-Kevin
 

FourCandles

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 10, 2009
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When OpenGL is enabled in Photoshop CS5, there are 3 selectable modes available. Basic, Normal and Advanced.

Basic - This mode used the least amount of GPU memory and the most basic OpenGL features. Use this mode when experiencing visual defects or general slowdowns in your document window or when running other applications that preoccupy the GPU.

Normal - THis mode uses a large amount of GPU memory and advanced OPenGL features to perform color matching, tone mapping and checkerboard blending. This frees the CPU to perform other tasks but may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

Advanced - This mode is the most GPU intensive. It uses the same amount of memory as the Normal mode while enabling more advanced techniques to improve drawing performance. This may cause visual defects on some GPUs.

The ATI X1900XT is only supported in Basic Mode while the NVidia Geforce 8600M GT is supported in all three modes.
OK, this makes sense and is similar to the situation with PS CS4. For CS4, I found three Adobe KB articles - see here for a list of tested graphics cards, here for a list of features available with specific cards / amount of VRAM, and here for some known issues with specific cards.

So presumably what we need now from Adobe is a similar definitive list of GPUs for PS CS5 and their test findings. Because, whereas the sys reqs for PS CS4 only mention graphics cards for the GPU-accelerated features, the PS CS5 sys reqs seem to say that the app will not run at all without a "qualified" card - and (as yet) there's no defined list of what they are.
 

Nik

macrumors 6502a
Jun 3, 2007
616
1,019
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I got a Nehalem MacPro with the ATI Radeon 4870 and OpenGL does not work. Photoshop CS5 does not recognize the card... :(

Photoshop CS4 works fine though.
 

Nostromo

macrumors 65816
Dec 26, 2009
1,358
2
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Hopefully Adobe will give out more detailed information.

My 7600 GT is in an iMac - not exactly easy to exchange. And exchange with what?
 

netnothing

macrumors 68040
Mar 13, 2007
3,674
305
NH
OK, this makes sense and is similar to the situation with PS CS4. For CS4, I found three Adobe KB articles - see here for a list of tested graphics cards, here for a list of features available with specific cards / amount of VRAM, and here for some known issues with specific cards.

So presumably what we need now from Adobe is a similar definitive list of GPUs for PS CS5 and their test findings. Because, whereas the sys reqs for PS CS4 only mention graphics cards for the GPU-accelerated features, the PS CS5 sys reqs seem to say that the app will not run at all without a "qualified" card - and (as yet) there's no defined list of what they are.
Here's the CS5 list of tested cards:

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/831/cpsid_83117.html

This list of graphics display cards was tested by Adobe before the release of Photoshop CS5. They are listed by series. The minimum amount of RAM supported on video cards for Photoshop CS5 is 128 MB. 256 MB of RAM is recommended.



NVIDIA GeForce
7000, 8000, 9000, 100, 200, 400 series

NVIDIA Quadro FX
x500, x700, x800, FX370, FX380, FX580 series, Quadro CX cards

ATI Radeon
2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 series

Note: ATI X 1000 series cards are no longer being tested.

ATI FireGL
FireGL (R600 family GPUs x6xx series): V3600, V5600, V7600, V7700, V8600, V8650
FirePro (R700 family GPUs X7xx series): V3700 ,V3750, V5700, V7750, V8700, V8750

ATI FirePro
FirePro (R800 family GPUs x8xx series): V3800, V3850, V5800, V7800, V8800

Intel
Intel HD Graphics
Intel GMA 4-Series Chipset

Macintosh
Macbook Air Intel GMA X3100


-Kevin
 

ncmason

macrumors regular
Feb 27, 2007
126
0
I'm running PS CS5 extended on my 1.83GHz (ATI Radeon X1600) Core Duo iMac.
The only difference I can tell is I'm only able to use Basic mode for OpenGL Drawing.

- Mason
 

FourCandles

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 10, 2009
835
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England
Thanks for the recent responses folks. Some interesting points.


Here's the CS5 list of tested cards:

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/831/cpsid_83117.html

...

-Kevin
Thanks - so this is Adobe's equivalent to the CS4 supported list that I'd found (but see below).

I got a Nehalem MacPro with the ATI Radeon 4870 and OpenGL does not work. Photoshop CS5 does not recognize the card... :(

Photoshop CS4 works fine though.
This is worrying - firstly the KB article that kbmb posted lists the "ATI Radeon 4000 series" as tested (presumably a 4870 is part of the 4000 series, unless ATI do something strange with model numbers/series), and secondly this is a current model professional Mac desktop with an upgraded BTO card.

I'm running PS CS5 extended on my 1.83GHz (ATI Radeon X1600) Core Duo iMac.
The only difference I can tell is I'm only able to use Basic mode for OpenGL Drawing.

- Mason
Again, presumably a Radeon X1600 is part of the "X 1000 series", which Adobe list as "no longer being tested"; however you've proved that it does work. It's also only got 128MB VRAM, contrary to the Adobe sys reqs which state a minimum of 256MB.

So far, it appears that PS CS5 will run successfully (albeit with GPU acceleration limited) on a 4 year old original iMac, a 2 year old MacBook Air (the GMA3100 is listed as tested), but not with OpenGL on a current Mac Pro - which seems crazy.

Personally, I'd be interested to hear from anyone successfully running PS CS5 on a Mac with a 9400M. The 9000 series is listed as tested by Adobe, but with the above experiences, I'd be grateful for some user experience. Thanks.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm still about to upgrade my old G5, so unfortunately I can't install the CS5 trial myself. Hence my interest in whether PS CS5 will run on a 9400M system, before I go and buy a new machine.
 
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