Pirating vs. Evaluation

JFreak

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Original poster
Jul 11, 2003
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reykjavik said:
just annoying to pay for an upgrade and not have it work on a Canon camera.
i feel your pain. i almost did the same thing, but as i knew about this raw-format issue beforehand, i *pirated* the ilife05 to test if it would work with my canon powershot. it doesn't, so i will not buy it yet. i will give apple my money as soon as it is supported.

(i feel that i am eligible to test the software i buy before i give my money away. in that perspective, i am not pirating, but simply evaluating it. eventually i will buy it, but apple cannot get my money before they deliver the one feature that makes me want it.)
 

JFreak

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Rower_CPU said:
Not sure why you'd need to pirate it since Apple posts a pretty comprehensive list of iPhoto compatible cameras.
my powershot s50 is mentioned in the list, but that doesn't mean that the RAW format of the camera is recognized, but just that iphoto is able to connect to the camera and download the files from it. this i already knew as all canons have been supported like forever, but i just found out that powershot RAW just doesn't work yet.

do you see it now ;)
 
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JFreak

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tonyeck said:
Pirating is pirating at the end of the day mate :(
yes it is, but i call what i did "evaluating", as i have promised to buy the software as soon as it supports the RAW format of the powershot i have. by delaying the purchase i am kind of giving apple incentive to support more RAW formats. surely they want my money, but i too want that feature, so the transaction will be made when both of us can be satisfied.
 
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JFreak

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this is my justification for what i call "evaluating":

(taken from apple.com/ilife/iphoto page)

"Make Mine RAW — iPhoto Supports New Formats

Pros do it and an increasing number of you do, too. Capture photos in the RAW photo format, that is. Shooting RAW lets you take advantage of every pixel of detail and the full dynamic range your digital cameras can capture. iPhoto 5 not only lets you import and organize uncompressed RAW images, but it supports RAW photos throughout the application, letting you edit them until they’re picture perfect, add them to your slideshows, order prints of them, and include them in iPhoto Books."

...

this doesn't in any way say that only certain camera models' RAW format is supported, but genericly says that "it supports RAW photos throughout the application", but as i found out this is not 100% the whole truth.

when it is, i will buy the software. currently (5.0.1) it isn't, so i don't do it now.
 
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JFreak

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Lacero said:
RAW and iPhoto don't really go together
apple is touting that they go, and that's the #1 reason why i would buy the ilife'05 package. i don't want to mess with photoshop when i download photos from my camera, in my perspective photoshop is for editing image files that i already have somewhere.
 
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Rower_CPU

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Oct 5, 2001
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San Diego, CA
JFreak said:
my powershot s50 is mentioned in the list, but that doesn't mean that the RAW format of the camera is recognized, but just that iphoto is able to connect to the camera and download the files from it. this i already knew as all canons have been supported like forever, but i just found out that powershot RAW just doesn't work yet.

do you see it now ;)
Yes, and on that page I linked to it shows which cameras have RAW support in iPhoto 5 - your PowerShot S50 doesn't list it but the PowerShot G5/G6 and Pro1 do. No need to "evaluate" when Apple tells you up front.

Do you see that now? ;)
 
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JFreak

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Rower_CPU said:
Yes, and on that page I linked to it shows which cameras have RAW support in iPhoto 5 - your PowerShot S50 doesn't list it but the PowerShot G5/G6 and Pro1 do. No need to "evaluate" when Apple tells you up front.

Do you see that now? ;)
camera manufacturers are many times using same formats on different product versions, so not mentioning specific version is a reason for evaluating. if there would be a list of "not supported" cameras and mine was there, then i would have no justification.
 
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Rower_CPU

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JFreak said:
camera manufacturers are many times using same formats on different product versions, so not mentioning specific version is a reason for evaluating. if there would be a list of "not supported" cameras and mine was there, then i would have no justification.
Sorry, but that just doesn't fly - they say exactly which cameras have supported RAW formats and even list them again on the side of the import info page.

Apple gives you all the info you need to know.
 
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JFreak

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Rower_CPU said:
Sorry, but that just doesn't fly - they say exactly which cameras have supported RAW formats and even list them again on the side of the import info page.

Apple gives you all the info you need to know.
yes, it flies.

my powershot was recognized by iphoto before there was any mention of that particular model in the info page, so the absence from supported models does not mean that "this will not work", but rather "we have not yet tested this, so it might or might not work."

there are not too many digicams out there that can output some kind of RAW files. if there would have been a list of UNSUPPORTED camera models, that would have been an "exact" statement. but it's not up to apple to tell us what they don't support; it's just that there can be camera models that "work, but are unsupported" and it is not so far fetched to think "any canon has always worked like a charm with apple software. maybe this time, too."

i will keep evaluating iphoto5 until my camera is supported ('cause reverting to iphoto4 would mean system reinstall which i do next time when tiger arrives). when my camera is supported, i will pay for ilife, so i'm not going to consider myself a pirate. i always get licenses for the software i use, but on the other hand, i always evaluate the software before the purchase. i buy what i need, not what i want, there's a difference. currently, i don't need iphoto5 as it doesn't offer me RAW support. end of story.

(i'm sure you cannot believe, but for me there's nothing more in ilife'05 than the RAW support that would make iphoto so much better. i'm waiting...)
 
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Rower_CPU

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Oct 5, 2001
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JFreak-

All I'm saying is in a court of law, what you are doing is not "evaluation" especially when Apple has provided the info you were using as the justification for pirating the software.
 
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JFreak

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Rower_CPU said:
All I'm saying is in a court of law, what you are doing is not "evaluation" especially when Apple has provided the info you were using as the justification for pirating the software.
we are not in a court of law. if we were, the jury would make apple pay me truckloads of money because i have a point and they would see them as a huge company running a high-cost lawsuit over a $79 software against their customer, who has purchased two computers, final cut pro and keynote from them.

apple didn't say my camera would not work and didn't say my camera would be supported either. so i had to test it myself. period. i will pay them as soon as they support my camera. case closed. this is a court of me and justice as i see it.
 
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Rower_CPU

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So why couldn't you have just called Apple and asked "Hey, does camera X have RAW support in iPhoto 5?"?

My point this whole time has been: why illegally download it when you can get the same info by other means?
 
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JFreak

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there is no apple presence in finland. if i call apple store, i get answer from a person that speaks far worse english than i do. no offense, but i don't understand indian-english at all. it is a lot easier to test it by myself. a lot easier.

i actually want to pay for ilife because there is *one* feature that i want, but i won't pay for it before i actually get that feature. so i evaluate and wait for the point-something update that gives me what i want... and then apple gets its money.
 
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Rower_CPU

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I call BS - I've spoken to Apple's tech support many times and I cannot recall a single instance of getting a representative with poor English skills.

Did you at least make the effort to get the info legitimately? No. You went straight to an illegal download because it's "easier". It's "easier" for me not to work for a living and just walk into a bank now and then and steal some money - doesn't make it right. ;)
 
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Applespider

macrumors G4
The fact that you are going to keep 'evaluating' rather than reverting means that it's piracy (if you knew you may have to back out, you should have had a backup which you could restore your previous system to). If you really wanted to check for real whether your S50 was supported, you could have taken it to an Apple Store or reseller and asked to plug it into a Mac with iPhoto 5 and see what happened.

I have an S40 and since it's an 'old' camera now, I have little expectation that iPhoto will retrospectively work with it.

Evaluation does have a purpose. I downloaded Omnigraffle Pro (using the trial key on their site) to test exactly how good their Visio Export/Import would be in transferring things to work or home (very as it turns out)! I already have normal Omnigraffle - my request for the license fee is now being evaluated by my manager. ;)

Edit: Sorry, forgot you were in Finland so the Apple Store would have been tricky! :)
 
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Bear

macrumors G3
Jul 23, 2002
8,089
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Sol III - Terra
For RAW support, you can go by the list on the iPhoto page. Each camera tends to have a different RAW format, so Apple has to include support specifically for a camera. Note, this is a per camera issue and not a per manufacturer issue. Yes, sometimes two cameras from the same manufacturer will use the same RAW format, but I wouldn't count on that.

For general image transfer, each manufacturer tends to stick to a specific way (or two) and at that, some of the different manufacturers use the same transfer design. So, i general a new camera will tend to work for image transfer and such even if it isn't listed as being supported.
 
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PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,239
4
if you have subsequently reverted back to iPhoto 4, then yes i would say that you evaluated the product, however, if you continue to use it then yes you have pirated it, and you are stealing, apple has said what cameras are supported, you made sure that yours was not, until your camera is on the supported list then you now know that the software is not what you are looking for, hence no reason to keep the upgrade, yet if you continue to keep iPhoto 5, it is piracy plain and simple
 
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jxyama

macrumors 68040
Apr 3, 2003
3,735
1
JFreak,

whatever you say, it's pretty weak. you don't have an inherent right to do whatever you feel entitled to, no matter how strongly you feel entitled to it, it simply doesn't matter. apple offers whatever it does on its terms and only right you have is whether you agree with it or not.

justify all you want, doesn't make a difference. you don't determine what's right and what's wrong. you determine what you are willing to pay for and what you aren't. since you are using it without paying for it, you are wrong.

right thing to do is erase that iPhoto 5 right now, and buy it when the feature you want is added. using it without paying for it and waiting for the feature you want to be added while simultanesously benefitting from all other added features is simply wrong.

i can't believe you are actually posting about this. we can't prevent you from doing wrong things - that's your problem, not ours. but to publically (more or less) declare and try to justify something that has no justification is pretty brave, i must say.
 
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Jsmit

macrumors regular
Sep 10, 2004
195
0
Boston
Are you using any of the other iLife apps? Why do I have to pay and you don't? You may even "evaluate" the apps more than I use them. Are you somehow special? Better than everyone else? I paid extra for the family pack even though I will only use iPhoto on the second machine. I will hopefully never use it more than when I tested,because I got it only so I can access my backups if I need too. Enough about my software needs.

The way I look at it is:

Why should people continue to develop on the Mac platform if people just pirate, i mean evaluate, the software. Every-time you evaluate software, you are getting a service for nothing and the organization performing the service gets no reciprocity. I'm sorry but waht you are doing is wrong, illeagal and immoral even if you call it "evaluation" instead of piracy.
 
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