Pismo G4 kinda starts?

[InuNacho]

I have a Pismo G4 that I've dusted off and want to play with again during the "shelter in place" and it chimes when I plug it in and power it up but nothing shows up on the built in screen, external VGA, or or VTBook video card.
Any ideas whats up? I would expect to at least see a boot screen but I don't see anything.

If anyone is asking, yes I did remove the clock battery.

 

[weckart]

Can you hear the hard disk whirring?

 

[InuNacho]

Surprisingly, yes.

 

[weckart]

Sounds like a graphics chip problem.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Sounds like a graphics chip problem.

Wouldn't that prevent it from POSTing though?

 

[Raging Dufus]

Wouldn't that prevent it from POSTing though?

I know this is true of Power Macs. I'd expect it to be true of PowerBooks of that era too, but can't say for sure, as I don't think I've encountered this problem.

OP, have you tried shining a flashlight onto the screen, or through the Apple logo on the back, to see if any graphics are being displayed? If so, it could be a backlight problem - which wouldn't explain why you get no external video, but it's possible for your VGA out port to be dead as well. Doesn't necessarily mean the graphics card itself is dead. It's an unlikely scenario, but worth eliminating as a possibility.

The only other thing I can think of is that your OS install has become corrupted, and that you may be missing some graphics kexts - but that wouldn't explain why you get no display on startup, before the OS begins booting.

It would be nice to be able to run some diagnostics like Apple Hardware Test, but the only way I can think of is to control your Pismo from another computer via VNC. I've never done that, but here's a discussion that might help you get started. My thinking is, you could run Apple Hardware Test on the Pismo while controlling it from another Mac, and then at least you'd be able to find out from the diagnostic whether or not the graphics card is shot.

 

[weckart]

Wouldn't that prevent it from POSTing though?

You would think so but I have a bunch of trashed 3400s I got in a bundle. All fell victim to leaking PRAM batteries. One of these chimes and you can hear the hard drive spinning away and the subsequent seeking clicks make all the right noises of a system that is booting up normally. If it failed POST I would expect either a completely dead logic board - lights and full fans and nothing else or some tell-tale beeps.

In that PB3400, the PRAM battery is located right next to the GPU. In this particular notebook, the VGA ribbon connector has rotted away from the acid leak. There is no repairing this.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

I know this is true of Power Macs. I'd expect it to be true of PowerBooks of that era too, but can't say for sure, as I don't think I've encountered this problem.

OP, have you tried shining a flashlight onto the screen, or through the Apple logo on the back, to see if any graphics are being displayed? If so, it could be a backlight problem - which wouldn't explain why you get no external video, but it's possible for your VGA out port to be dead as well. Doesn't necessarily mean the graphics card itself is dead. It's an unlikely scenario, but worth eliminating as a possibility.

The only other thing I can think of is that your OS install has become corrupted, and that you may be missing some graphics kexts - but that wouldn't explain why you get no display on startup, before the OS begins booting.

It would be nice to be able to run some diagnostics like Apple Hardware Test, but the only way I can think of is to control your Pismo from another computer via VNC. I've never done that, but here's a discussion that might help you get started. My thinking is, you could run Apple Hardware Test on the Pismo while controlling it from another Mac, and then at least you'd be able to find out from the diagnostic whether or not the graphics card is shot.

What about booting into (what you hope) is target disk mode and seeing if the OS boots another machine? That wouldn't help run AHT, but it might help set it up to run it.

You would think so but I have a bunch of trashed 3400s I got in a bundle. All fell victim to leaking PRAM batteries. One of these chimes and you can hear the hard drive spinning away and the subsequent seeking clicks make all the right noises of a system that is booting up normally. If it failed POST I would expect either a completely dead logic board - lights and full fans and nothing else or some tell-tale beeps.

In that PB3400, the PRAM battery is located right next to the GPU. In this particular notebook, the VGA ribbon connector has rotted away from the acid leak. There is no repairing this.

Huh... That's strange. That's too bad that it's irreparable.

 

[weckart]

Huh... That's strange. That's too bad that it's irreparable.

Sorry, I meant the display ribbon connector. The logic board around is pretty messed up so I suspect the traces to the VGA out are as toast as those from the GPU to the rest of the system.

NH batteries are the absolute worst for leakage. In that same bundle were some 5300s and a similar 190 that also perished. Only the later TiBooks survived from it.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Sorry, I meant the display ribbon connector. The logic board around is pretty messed up so I suspect the traces to the VGA out are as toast as those from the GPU to the rest of the system.

NH batteries are the absolute worst for leakage. In that same bundle were some 5300s and a similar 190 that also perished. Only the later TiBooks survived from it.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I wonder if they'll ever create replacement batteries for these systems that won't leak at all.

 

[Raging Dufus]

What about booting into (what you hope) is target disk mode and seeing if the OS boots another machine?

That was an instinct of mine too, but I'm not sure it will provide any useful info. You could see if the hard drive is good, and if the OS is working properly, but not much more than that. The problem here has to be somewhere in the graphics hardware or perhaps a problem with the firmware, because something should be visible on the internal or external display even if no hard drive or OS were present. By starting the Pismo in target mode, the only thing being accessed would be its drive(s), and all other hardware/firmware would be of the machine it was connected to.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

That was an instinct of mine too, but I'm not sure it will provide any useful info. You could see if the hard drive is good, and if the OS is working properly, but not much more than that. The problem here has to be somewhere in the graphics hardware or perhaps a problem with the firmware, because something should be visible on the internal or external display even if no hard drive or OS were present. By starting the Pismo in target mode, the only thing being accessed would be its drive(s), and all other hardware/firmware would be of the machine it was connected to.

Yeah... Good point. I guess only if the issue prevents something in target disk mode from working correctly would it prove useful.

 

[Raging Dufus]

Yeah... Good point. I guess only if the issue prevents something in target disk mode from working correctly would it prove useful.

Well you may be onto something there. If the Pismo won't start up in TDM, there's definitely something wrong with the firmware. Might be related to the display issues, might not, but it's something.

 

[weckart]

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I wonder if they'll ever create replacement batteries for these systems that won't leak at all.

It might not be that straightforward. If the PRAM batteries are non-rechargeable, then its composition isn't critical. You could replace like for like with something Li-Ion as many do with period laptops. Apple tended to use rechargeable batteries with support in the firmware for correct charging. That might make swapping the leaky NH batteries for NCad or Li-Ion a bit riskier but I'll leave that to the electronics experts. It's not something I know a great deal about.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

It might not be that straightforward. If the PRAM batteries are non-rechargeable, then its composition isn't critical. You could replace like for like with something Li-Ion as many do with period laptops. Apple tended to use rechargeable batteries with support in the firmware for correct charging. That might make swapping the leaky NH batteries for NCad or Li-Ion a bit riskier but I'll leave that to the electronics experts. It's not something I know a great deal about.

That's a good point, I thought the answer would likely be that it's not possible
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Well you may be onto something there. If the Pismo won't start up in TDM, there's definitely something wrong with the firmware. Might be related to the display issues, might not, but it's something.

Yeah, a firmware issue in one area could point to a common cause for both issues