Pissed Of Switcher - Wheres My Mac Stevo Jobs?

[ethan]

It's the same with the 1.42 G4s

I understand your frustration and anger. It's the same way with the new 1.42 G4s. Apple says 4-6 weeks before shipping and if you want options added add another two weeks. I work for one of the big three auto companies. A good, professional company makes sure it has the thousands and thousands of parts in needs to build a product IN STOCK BEFORE it advertises and then manufacturers. Apple has always been poorly managed in this manner. You DO NOT advertise a product to consumers if you're not capable to produce it and get it to the consumer. Duh. This is Business 101. Apple's marketing dept. always shoots off its mouth with no products to ship. The result: Angry consumers wanting the product. That in turn puts pressure on assembly to hurry out the product to meet demand. Final result: Consumer gets a hastily thrown together product that will have a poor quality level. Haste does make waste. Also with the 1.42 G4, on the BTO page it shows you can add a Radeon 9700 but it says: (Coming soon). So if you want that card, your order process STOPS immediately. You can't order the unit because they don't have the cards. I called Apple and they said they don't know when the 9700 card will be available. They said "Call the manufacturer." I said, "NO, morons, it's not up to the customer to chase down parts of a product YOU are building. If you don't have the card, DON'T list it on your online purchasing/ordering page." Period. Just because Apple builds computers, it doesn't make them any diferent from any other company building a product. They are retarded when it comes to running a business.

 

[MacBandit]

Re: It's the same with the 1.42 G4s

Originally posted by ethan
I understand your frustration and anger. It's the same way with the new 1.42 G4s. Apple says 4-6 weeks before shipping and if you want options added add another two weeks. I work for one of the big three auto companies. A good, professional company makes sure it has the thousands and thousands of parts in needs to build a product IN STOCK BEFORE it advertises and then manufacturers.

This is an industry standard in the electronics biz. Just look around you. Every major hyped and desired new electronic product that comes out has a waiting period after it is announced. Canon announced there S230 digital camera and I had to a month and a half for it to hit store shelves or to be able to order it. Epson announced the new 1660 scanner I believe last July and it was late fall before the first few were available.

It isn't just in the electronics business. Because here a year or two ago Meade announced a whole new line of telescopes and it was 6 months before the smallest of them hit the market and a year before the larger ones did.

I agree that it would make since for them to wait until have the product ready for production before announcing but this is not how it works for 100s of products from many different manufacturors every year. I some times wonder if they make the announcement early to determine demand before production starts or it is a business tactic to scare there competitors. Either way it is not just Apple that uses the press release and wait method and I'm sure they have a good reason for it.

One more thing I seem to remember there being delays when the PT Cruiser, Viper, new Vettte, and the Prowler were released.

 

[ethan]

Re: Re: It's the same with the 1.42 G4s

Originally posted by MacBandit
This is an industry standard in the electronics biz. Just look around you. Every major hyped and desired new electronic product that comes out has a waiting period after it is announced. Canon announced there S230 digital camera and I had to a month and a half for it to hit store shelves or to be able to order it. Epson announced the new 1660 scanner I believe last July and it was late fall before the first few were available.



One more thing I seem to remember there being delays when the PT Cruiser, Viper, new Vettte, and the Prowler were released.



These delays were not because of lack of parts or quality prblems. Those delays were due to that there is only 24 hours in a day and you can only have three shifts a day producing. Duh.

 

[mmoin]

that's why I bought an iBook

Saw the new powerbooks announced, wanted the 12" but realized how long I'd have to wait, ordered the iBook 800, got it in 2 days. If you want your computer quickly, don't buy the model that's in short supply and that everyone else wants.

 

[digitalgiant]

just one more person giving switchers a bad name. you are bitching about stuff us long term users have been dealing with for years,,,so i dont really feel sorry for you.

 

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by ftaok
Need you say more? YEAH!

I'm going to trust the Apple Store's info before I take your word on the matter. No offense.

How could it be processor supplies if the 1ghz PowerMac will be available in a week (according to you)? Why would Apple put the 1ghz chips that they receive from Moto into the low-end (and therefore low margin) PowerMac before getting them into the high-end (and REALLY high margin) PowerBooks?

You are going to trust Apple Store before Apple itself. You stupid wanker... if it was not for the fact that in big writing on the availability page it says that you can not even download the page. Saying that... I just re-read the warning and I have already treaded on thin ice saying what I did so I am deleting my previous message; I don't want to be like that guy in the news.

And if you want to know why they would have the PowerMacs before 17" PowerBooks it would be because when they start shipping they would want quick supply not a dwindle for a long while.

 

[madamimadam]

Re: It's the same with the 1.42 G4s

Originally posted by ethan
I understand your frustration and anger. It's the same way with the new 1.42 G4s. Apple says 4-6 weeks before shipping and if you want options added add another two weeks. I work for one of the big three auto companies. A good, professional company makes sure it has the thousands and thousands of parts in needs to build a product IN STOCK BEFORE it advertises and then manufacturers. Apple has always been poorly managed in this manner. You DO NOT advertise a product to consumers if you're not capable to produce it and get it to the consumer. Duh. This is Business 101. Apple's marketing dept. always shoots off its mouth with no products to ship. The result: Angry consumers wanting the product. That in turn puts pressure on assembly to hurry out the product to meet demand. Final result: Consumer gets a hastily thrown together product that will have a poor quality level. Haste does make waste. Also with the 1.42 G4, on the BTO page it shows you can add a Radeon 9700 but it says: (Coming soon). So if you want that card, your order process STOPS immediately. You can't order the unit because they don't have the cards. I called Apple and they said they don't know when the 9700 card will be available. They said "Call the manufacturer." I said, "NO, morons, it's not up to the customer to chase down parts of a product YOU are building. If you don't have the card, DON'T list it on your online purchasing/ordering page." Period. Just because Apple builds computers, it doesn't make them any diferent from any other company building a product. They are retarded when it comes to running a business.

If you actually attended business 101 you would have found out that it is also common practise to get funds early so as to be able to pay for production without hindering cash flow. Why stop making money on cash on hand and investments when you can get funds upfront.

As for Apple being "retarded when it comes to running a business", I would like to see you make half as much money as they can... they must be doing something right.

Also, if Apple has not been told by ATI when the cards are coming in then there is nothing they can do. It could only be a good thing for you to call ATI yourself.

And you tell me when Apple has produced a "hastily thrown together product that (has) a poor quality level". Also, most electronic haste does not create waste because they can reuse the part.

**** people piss me off... this is why I can not work in retail; Apple gets so much **** for doing the same as so many other companies except their product is better. Do you think people buying Lamborghini's get upset if they don't get product on the spot?

 

[nanosound]

The truth is marketing is always two steps ahead of manufacturing. It may not be illegal or unethical, but it can be very frustrating to customers and often test their loyalty. Customers are conditioned to want better, faster, sooner--just like Pavlov's dogs. They're conditioned to whip out their wallets for the latest greatest. So when they have to wait, frustration mounts.

With the PB 17, some parts were delayed as well. Murphy always wins.

But I agree, customers shouldn't be tracking down parts information--that is the product maker's job--they should not list items that aren't available reasonably soon.

 

[janey]

Originally posted by Heart Break Kid
ok thats it Jane

if you were out to make me cry...you win
im crying
...i cry every day the fed ex guy drives by my house
im crying again

i hoep your happy

i'm so sorry if it makes you happy...no matter what i'm not getting my 17" powerbook for a while. it still says shipping on or before 2/20 now and even though i already have one i'm even more anxious than you are to get it.

 

[StevenFW]

I think Ethan has said it best, also taking into account some of the tempered replies. Yes , other companies do what Apple does, insofar as press release before delivery, and yes, Apple gets the worst of the press for doing so, but let's be honest here....anyone who follows Apple closely over the past decade knows that they are very guilty of the practice....and whenever you look at the reasons, offered by reputable Mac sites, not those from morons who only point to the "beleaguered" Apple, it becomes readily apparent that they are terrible at supply/demand, absolutely horrible...there were problems in 1994 when I bought my PM 7100/66, and problems when I bought my blue/white G3, and certainly in between...I love Apple hardware and software to death, and as I have said before, I will be with them forever, but the facts are the facts....Ethan makes some valid points-go ask ATI???? Come on, that is not the answer to be given when you are spending good money for ANY product...it is clearly Apple's responsibility to say something, even "we just don't know", not "call the manufacturer"....in summary, I truly believe that no matter who else does it, blah blah blah, DON'T market a product to death that will not be available for a quarter of one year (PB 17")....

 

[Jovian9]

Be Patient!

I ordered the FP iMac on January 17th of 2002....right after they were released. This was my first Apple purchase. It took nearly 2 months for it to be delivered. I was dieing to get this, but I never got upset waiting for it. Be Patient.....it is well worth the wait.

 

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by StevenFW
I think Ethan has said it best, also taking into account some of the tempered replies. Yes , other companies do what Apple does, insofar as press release before delivery, and yes, Apple gets the worst of the press for doing so, but let's be honest here....anyone who follows Apple closely over the past decade knows that they are very guilty of the practice....and whenever you look at the reasons, offered by reputable Mac sites, not those from morons who only point to the "beleaguered" Apple, it becomes readily apparent that they are terrible at supply/demand, absolutely horrible...there were problems in 1994 when I bought my PM 7100/66, and problems when I bought my blue/white G3, and certainly in between...I love Apple hardware and software to death, and as I have said before, I will be with them forever, but the facts are the facts....Ethan makes some valid points-go ask ATI???? Come on, that is not the answer to be given when you are spending good money for ANY product...it is clearly Apple's responsibility to say something, even "we just don't know", not "call the manufacturer"....in summary, I truly believe that no matter who else does it, blah blah blah, DON'T market a product to death that will not be available for a quarter of one year (PB 17")....

I think you portray your opinion very fairly and since it came off as opinion I can not really rebutt it but I can say that we can hope that one day Stevie gets his factory that builds everything that the computers need.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

damnit
why does everyone here have to be the voice of reason?

i know i should wait..i know thats what any sane adult would do..but the PB was my first splurge purchase...and damnit..im gonna act like a 2 year old until i see it at my door

cuz i want it now now now now now.
by the way...i think the fed ex guy feels im stalking hiim...or staring too long at his truck...if ya know what i mean

oh god...no
whats apple doing to me!!!!

 

[Heart Break Kid]

damnit
why does everyone here have to be the voice of reason?

i know i should wait..i know thats what any sane adult would do..but the PB was my first splurge purchase...and damnit..im gonna act like a 2 year old until i see it at my door

cuz i want it now now now now now.
by the way...i think the fed ex guy feels im stalking hiim...or staring too long at his truck...if ya know what i mean

oh god...no
whats apple doing to me!!!!

 

[humantech]

Humbly disagree- but its probably a matter of opinion

Steven said:
" it becomes readily apparent that they are terrible at supply/demand, absolutely horrible...there were problems in 1994 when I bought my PM 7100/66, and problems when I bought my blue/white G3"
Steven- Supply and demand asks two different things from the consumer versus the business-
from the consumer standpoint, they want it yesterday. We are conditioned. From the business standpoint, they dont want to OVER-project sales because it costs lots of money and gets them in hot water with their public and private investors- I think apple chooses to have very tight inventory controls- the problems with people having to wait for a newly announced product creates more demand- However, demand slacks WAY off when all your money is invested in a glut of overprojected merchandise that you have to mark WAY down to sell-
Also, If apple waited until all the parts were available and cheap, they would be dell- no innovation- merely mass production-
Apple has the best inventory controls in the business ( yes, even better than Dells) and this allows them the leeway to spend VAST amounts on R&D each year to keep innovating- As soon as they have a brand new product available immediately on launch, they will stop pressing the envelope and fail to be pertinent, as they will be using existing parts and form factors, and not doing anything new- think performa 6360--- EEEEEEWWWWWW.......
Also, the whole comparison to the auto industry is wack. The car industry hasnt truly innovated for a long time with the exception of the new hybrid cars which you had to be on a waiting list for- javascript:smilie('')
My 2 cents---

 

[beatle888]

Re: Pissed Of Switcher - Wheres My Mac Stevo Jobs?

Originally posted by Heart Break Kid
ok
So i just switched. I had a horrible Dell that kept crashing and finally decided to buy me a mac. Put my order in for the 17 inch powerbook G4 with 1 gig ram. heres my porblem. Why in the hell is it gonna take 3 months for it to get here????????????????????????

i wouldnt wait three months. by that time the
new thing is right around the corner.

 

[yzedf]

Originally posted by LosJackal
You are being unrealistic if you think a company can ALWAYS wait until a product is (almost) ready to announce it. Look at Microsoft...they just "announced" they'll add Exchange support into Entourage, but it won't be "released" until the summer. That's the software industry. New startup companies announce their products maybe a year or more before they're readily available. Hardware peripherals often announce a few months ahead of time, like a new CD burner technology. Same with eletronics, and many other industries.

So let's talk about this specific product, the 17" PowerBook. It is the culmination of the innovation Apple has been doing over the past year. Contrary to a previous post, it is a completely new machine:
1) Widescreen 17" in a laptop with a new backlight
2) New anodized aluminum case
3) New keyboard with backlighting and ambient light sensors
4) Airport Extreme
5) Built-in Bluetooth
6) Firewire 800
7) DDR RAM
8) New motherboard to run it all

You can certainly bet Apple needs to announce this at a major event like MWSF.

So why couldn't they have it ready to deliver after MWSF? I personally don't know. But there are reasons that could explain it....
a) don't ramp up production yet to preserve secrecy
b) don't know market reaction to it yet
c) don't know how many to manufacture to begin with
d) needed release of 10.2.4
e) needed release of iLife

All in all, 7-10 weeks isn't an unreasonable time frame to have all of that come together. Contrary to some opinion, there are no delays yet. Apple said "in February" and 7-10 weeks from the date of ordering. We haven't passed that mark yet.

There is a difference between software anouncements touting new and improved functionality, "to be released this summer" vs. the PB 17" being announced, as well as orders taken!

I can hear all about some new program to be released in July, but I can't order it until then. Apple lets me order something that they knowingly have no idea when it can possibly ship. This is bad for business. Even Mac enthusiasts are telling people to cancel their orders...

As to the February statement, most everyone that is getting some sort of updated information about their order is hearing March-April delivery.

 

[madamimadam]

Re: Re: Pissed Of Switcher - Wheres My Mac Stevo Jobs?

Originally posted by beatle888
i wouldnt wait three months. by that time the
new thing is right around the corner.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard

Why buy a computer when there will be one better made in 6 months?

Why wait 3 months when in 3 more a new on will be released that you will have to wait 3 months to get?

 

[beatle888]

Re: Re: Re: Pissed Of Switcher - Wheres My Mac Stevo Jobs?

Originally posted by madamimadam
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard

Why buy a computer when there will be one better made in 6 months?

Why wait 3 months when in 3 more a new on will be released that you will have to wait 3 months to get?

obvioulsy you miss understood me. i ment that i wouldnt buy the newest hardware NOW if its not going to be shipped for three more months.

cant you understand that? people are right when they say that apple shouldnt take orders for a product that isnt shipping for another quarter... sorry maybe someone else can explain it to you. oh wait, okcan you understand this? what im suggesting is that he should cancel his order and get something thats available now....do you get it?

 

[Heart Break Kid]

cmon lets not get into flaming each other

this thread was to let me flame apple's delivery time
focus ppl
focus

 

[beatle888]

Originally posted by madamimadam
Deleted

best thing youve posted all day.

 

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by beatle888
best thing youve posted all day.

And why is that, because I am not a back stabbing bastard who puts down great companies because they can not produce millions of top of the range computers in 2-3 days?

You would think that a site dedicated to MacRumors and all things Mac would entice great discussions but the Mac world and the excitement of finally getting a new machine after an anxious wait but instead these boards seem to be constantly flooded with people bitching about a company they apperently like the work of.

In any other industry, people will wait as long as it takes for the best, in this industry everyone wants things yesterday. It takes time to make true quality... why not give Apple a little?

 

[LosJackal]

Originally posted by yzedf
There is a difference between software anouncements touting new and improved functionality, "to be released this summer" vs. the PB 17" being announced, as well as orders taken!

I can hear all about some new program to be released in July, but I can't order it until then. Apple lets me order something that they knowingly have no idea when it can possibly ship. This is bad for business. Even Mac enthusiasts are telling people to cancel their orders...

As to the February statement, most everyone that is getting some sort of updated information about their order is hearing March-April delivery.

Regarding ordering, would you rather have a free-for-all March 1st? Personally, I am (for the moment) confident about my place in line. I ordered, knowing I wouldn't have it charged to my credit card for at least a month, and then I'd have another month to pay it. I ordered it stock configuration, from my .Mac account, with overnight shipping. In other words, everything within my power to get it ASAP. I didn't have to think about it....I could always cancel it before it ships.

As for updated information, Apple seems to give updated information on the actual "on or before date" if they are not going to meet that date. My date is tomorrow, so I'll let you know if I hear anything. You can bet I'll be calling Apple on the 21st if I haven't heard from them first.

 

[MacBandit]

Re: Re: Re: It's the same with the 1.42 G4s

Originally posted by ethan

Originally posted by MacBandit
These delays were not because of lack of parts or quality prblems. Those delays were due to that there is only 24 hours in a day and you can only have three shifts a day producing. Duh.

Those delays are just like the Powerbook and Powermac delay. The product simply wasn't available for a great while after the initial announcement. It wasn't because of high demand and they were backordered it was because they didn't even have the product out yet.

Also you are assuming that the delay is because Apple can't get a part. While this is possibly a very valid assumption it is an assumption all the same with no evidence.

 

[ftaok]

Originally posted by madamimadam
You are going to trust Apple Store before Apple itself. You stupid wanker... if it was not for the fact that in big writing on the availability page it says that you can not even download the page. Saying that... I just re-read the warning and I have already treaded on thin ice saying what I did so I am deleting my previous message; I don't want to be like that guy in the news.

And if you want to know why they would have the PowerMacs before 17" PowerBooks it would be because when they start shipping they would want quick supply not a dwindle for a long while.

No need to start insulting people.

My whole point with your argument is that the 17" PowerBook is delayed because of supply problems at Motorola. I question that because it's obvious that 1ghz G4s are readily available in other Apple products.