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Chip NoVaMac said:
All these holier than thou here.

I guess none of the people that think is bad ever do more than 5mph over the speed limit, never run a red light, always yield to pedestrians, never "cheat" on their taxes, and generally are up for sainthood.

I do not support the piracy of music. But I do feel that if I buy it, i should be able to use it as i see fit for my personal use. Sort of like being able to copy DVD's so that I don't damage the original.

Actually, except for the sainthood part, that pretty much describes me. I have mixed feelings about this application though... certainly it's nice, and I'll use it on the tracks I get from ITMS, but I KNOW others will abuse it just because they can. It's disappointing, but there are always people like that I guess.
 
VLC

You guys do realize that this includes the same code written by DVD Jon (The guy who wrote DeCSS) right? He also incorporated the code into VLC (http://www.videolan.org), and you can use VLC w/ filestreaming to do the same thing as this app (Although it will be at 1 x)

The reason this is "for the PC" is because you need a PC (At least at the moment) to get the encrypted song hash (Which is then decrypted...) If you get that (I used virtual PC to do it, and it worked fine), and you place the drms file in a folder called ".drms" in your home folder, (Should be named something like 03052679.001), then you can use VLC (and possibly this application on the mac) to decrypt your .m4p files.

To get a decrypted .m4a file (actually .mp4, but .m4a is exactly the same as .mp4; just renamed and audio only), use the file streamer to stream to a .mp4 file. It will "play" at 1x, and no sound will be output, when its done you'll have a decrypted file. You can play any of _your_ .m4p files in VLC once you have your key btw...

The file probably wont retain any meta data/album art, but this can be added again with iTunes (It didn't when I did this to my iTMS songs a month or so ago.. but I think the latest nightly build of VLC actually does retain some tags...)

I'm sorry if this was mentioned already; I haven't read this entire thread yet... Just my $0.02
 
jxyama said:
i agree with most of your points...

and to be able to play iTMS music on linux... well, how about if you are "knowledgeable" enough to use linux and want to play iTMS music on it, why not write your own code to strip DRM? is it "necessary" to distribute the code to the public so others can use them - and let's be real - most will use for illegal purposes...

just a thought. i understand why you'd release it to the public - i just hope something like this won't make apple/RIAA to change policies in ways that will inconvenience 99% of users for the "right" of the 1%.

Linux has a larger user base than the Mac. Also, Linux is long past the point where only "hackers" use it. I would still say you have to "learn" it, but there are people who use or have used linux who know little or nothing about programming.
 
Clearly you missed the point

bathysphere said:
so how would someone compile this? apparently it works in osx 10.3.3, according to one of the bug reports (mentions the app not correctly copying the album art to the finished file, in 10.3.3). i would like to try this, anyone lend help? or point me to help?

So what did Apples clause state again about not assisting!? Why is it that people have such a problem upholding the LAW? :mad: On a side note, just be patient, Quicktime is in development for Linux. (Now where did I read that again...)
 
ajb13 said:
So what did Apples clause state again about not assisting!? Why is it that people have such a problem upholding the LAW? :mad: On a side note, just be patient, Quicktime is in development for Linux. (Now where did I read that again...)

Compiling this app is in no way illegal, nor is helping someone to do so. Also, as far as I know, Apple's clauses haven't necessarily been held up in a court of law. In any event, building PlayFair is not illegal.
 
jahutch said:
Linux has a larger user base than the Mac. Also, Linux is long past the point where only "hackers" use it. I would still say you have to "learn" it, but there are people who use or have used linux who know little or nothing about programming.

all probably true. (i believe linux has larger marketshare than Mac, not user base, anyway, it's irrelevant.)

but when you signed up for iTMS, you knew it was made to work with iTunes, which is available only for windows and Mac. if your primary machine happens to be linux, which apple doesn't support with iTunes, well, that's your problem... whether linux is bigger than Mac or linux is used by computer n00b is quite irrelevant, i feel...

if i buy a gamecube, will i complain that GTA3 is not available, unlike Xbox or PS2? i just find it funny endorsing a service/product that doesn't meet your needs - if you want apple/iTMS to support linux, then the correct thing to do, i feel, is to complain to apple, vote with your wallet and wait for iTunes to come to linux..? apple doesn't have an obligation to support linux... if you like linux then don't support apple because it clearly doesn't provide the service you like/need.
 
In any case.. to compile this application, download it and untar/gz it (Stuffit works fine for this..). Then open up the terminal and type (Without quotes):

"cd " (Note the trailing space)

and drag the decompressed directory to the terminal window (the playfair-0.2 folder)

Press return.

Type "./configure"

Press return.

When its done, type "make", and hit return...

When that's done.. type "sudo make install", return... and then enter your admin password at the prompt; return...

After that completes, you have successfully compiled the app.. as for using it, I'll give a report in a few to see if/how well it works...
 
jxyama said:
i generally stay within 5 mph on the speed limit, i don't run red lights, i usually yield to pedestrians and i've never cheated on my taxes.

and i don't pirate music.

but i don't see the connection. :confused: you can't have an opinion condemning piracy unless you've lived a perfect life?

also, you claim you will use what you buy as you see fit for your personal use. using the same point you tried to make in citing common innocent breaking of laws, unless you are a saint yourself, why should i believe that you will really only use for personal purposes?

The point is that some here take positions that is advantageous to them. There are legit reasons for the program. But so many here are thinking the worse.

You can not judge unless you are willing to be judged.

For many of us, this program offers an opportunity to continue our ownership of the music despite the rights management that Apple seems to think is fair, but may not fit our lives.

These laws i mentioned are not innocent laws that are being broken, but costing us dearly in terms of life and property. Following your logic, we have speed limiters on cars (this is rights management), id systems so that insurance companies and DMV's can restrict usage of a car to those that have the "right" to drive.

So sad that many think that this is about piracy for users of this software. Not saying that I am a saint, but i do try to lead a good life. And do what is right for my fellow man, my country, and my church. Evidently some feel that the temptation is too great for them.
 
running 10.3.3... here are the results for the files I tried.

6 files made itunes/quicktime crash
1 file plays, sounds normal in itunes but in quicktime the whenever the cymbal was hit it made kind of a rattling sound (the song is the ben folds cover of "inbetween days" for those interested).

it's been more trouble than it's worth. most of my files won't work period and the one that did work has questionable quality.

how's everyone else doing with this?
 
Its not about whether it's legal or not

jsw said:
Compiling this app is in no way illegal, nor is helping someone to do so. Also, as far as I know, Apple's clauses haven't necessarily been held up in a court of law. In any event, building PlayFair is not illegal.

Sure, it's not illegal to do so, but think about. If you agree to the terms and conditions, that is binding on your conscience. Okay, so it doesn't fit your lifestyle, well, then why aren't all the Linux users lobbying Apple for QuickTime™ for Linux? The thing is, most of us read the terms and conditions, accept, and never pay heed. I guess it's more of a moral issue, and of course, I don't want to see Apple harmed. iTMS is still revolutionary, and it just takes one plonker to mess the whole thing up.

Oh well, hoping above all their is still hope for the morally challenged. ;)
 
wordmunger said:
Of course you have the right to sell or license your code any way you wish......"I'd buy more of your code if it wasn't DRMed"? Isn't it smart business to give your customers what they want and not treat them like thieves?

Great! We agree the author has the right to distribute as he/she/it sees fit. As to what the best business choice is, I don't know and neither do you. You can speak for yourself about what you would do but you can't speak for everyone else. To put it into perspective, try this.

I Personally promise I will never enter your home uninvited, so why don't you stop locking your doors?

wordmunger said:
Shouldn't I be able to play my music over my airport network on my stereo? Right now, Fairplay doesn't allow it....Apple can't provide the services I want, I won't be buying their products.

This is not a limitation of FairPlay exactly but more Apple's decision not to license FairPlay. There is no reason that Apple couldn't license Fairplay to Tivo (they support rendezvous) or any other manufacture (including other MP3 players) and allow for streaming over 802.11 (as they do from one mac to another). And your reaction to this situation is a good one. Don't buy the music until the DRM allows you to do what you want. You and I can both hope for this in the future.

But as you agreed, it is not up to us what the restrictions should be. If we don't like them we can choose to not support them but we can not circumvent them. That's my point.
 
Chip NoVaMac said:
The point is that some here take positions that is advantageous to them. There are legit reasons for the program. But so many here are thinking the worse.

unlike p2p or dvd ripper, i don't think there's any legally "legitimate" reasons for this program. p2p can be used to share public domain software. dvd rippers can be used to back up. both uses are legally legitimate.

this program, however, does nothing but rip DRM out, which is illegal, according to apple iTMS term of service and possibly DMCA.
 
People have said this software is illegal. That's true (at least in the US), but then in several places it's also illegal to cary wirecutters in your car. Not everything that violates a law is objectively wrong. And yes, piracy is fundamentally wrong. But circumventing copy protection is not (necessarily).

As for the practical impact, I don't think there is any. Until you can name a song on iTMS that you can't find on Kazaa (or LimeWire, or Acquisition or <insert other p2p software>), then there's no real impact. iTMS and it's DRM really don't do anything to keep songs from propagating over p2p, because the people who upload music on p2p networks are far more likely to obtain (unprotected) music over p2p networks (or CDs).

There is no damage whatsoever to iTMS or the music industry if somebody uploads a file to a p2p network that was already available on the same network. From a piracy perspective this software doesn't matter, because there are other, far easier and cheaper methods of pirating music, no matter how simple this software gets. The only place that this software is really useful is for people who want to pay for downloads and have flexibility. Because of the way p2p networks work, the amount of music piracy is driven by the number of downloaders, not uploaders, and therefore the presence or absence of DRM doesn't matter.

It's unlikely, given the other methods available, that pirates will use this software at all unless iTMS becomes ubiquitous and completely eliminates CDs, and even if pirates do use it, the impact on the availability of pirated music isn't really that great.

Meanwhile, there are benefits to iTMS users:

1) Music can be played on older computers (OS 9, Win 98/ME -- people do still use these, even if not as their primary computers)
2) Music can be played on non-iPod music players.
3) Music can be converted to mp3 to play in cheap players or burn to mp3 cd's
4) Windows users can now (like mac users have been able to all along) use their music files in movies, etc. -- iMovie supports AAC-p, but there is no windows movie software that does.
5) If, for some reason, people want to switch music software at some point in the future. Even if iTunes is the best jukebox software out there now (this has been disputed), odds are that it won't stay the best forever. This gives them the option to switch software in the future.

So yes, it's technically illegal. But overall:
--The impact on the music industry is basically nothing, because music can be pirated far more easily by other means
--The impact on the iTMS is net positive because it allows customers to get more value out of their products, while it's not likely to increase piracy.

So, all in all, it's a net positive for iTMS.
 
Good points

puggsly said:
I Personally promise I will never enter your home uninvited, so why don't you stop locking your doors?

But as you agreed, it is not up to us what the restrictions should be. If we don't like them we can choose to not support them but we can not circumvent them. That's my point.

Living in a world of fast food, fast cars and even faster tech advances, we are forever in pursuit of changing things to suite "us". Often in this pursuit, we don't give a thought to the implications of our "selfishness".

just a thought.
 
Shouldn't I be able to play my music over my airport network on my stereo? Right now, Fairplay doesn't allow it....Apple can't provide the services I want, I won't be buying their products.

You can... If you have a squeezebox (SliMP3-ish device...), a piece of software written by a friend of mine autmotically uses QT to decompress your .m4ps to .aiff and stream to your stereo...
 
ajb13 said:
Living in a world of fast food, fast cars and even faster tech advances, we are forever in pursuit of changing things to suite "us". Often in this pursuit, we don't give a thought to the implications of our "selfishness".

just a thought.

thanks for your post... yeah, i feel that way some time. sure, you have rights... and it's great to have those rights and being able to exercise them. but i just feel like, dunno, sometimes, it's just obnoxious, in a way...

"i don't care what consequences my creation may have in general. i have my rights and i am going to exercises them, consequences be damned."
 
Trekkie said:
Well, it was only a matter of time. I wondered how long it would take the windows folks to figure out a way to decode the encryption. If you note everywhere on it says stuff about how you need Windows to do this.

The 3 - 5% of population that uses Apples aren't idiots either, but for some reason you don't see them figuring out how to crack iTunes MS DRM do you? Interesting.

I think it just reflects the current thoughts of the population at large. If you don't physically take an item, you're not stealing. A whole generation of kids is being brought up this way.

Right now the key is the one you bought with, but how long until you see keys being traded/zipped up with the songs?

I think it's more an attitude that if you don't directly hurt anyone, it's not a crime. For example, not many people have a problem with the idea of underage drinking - you aren't harming anyone directly, but by being drunk you may harm yourself or someone else.

The only problem with this is that the recording industry may back away from this online music thing. As for as the moral side of it, the recording industry is so full of fat cats that I don't really care. Maybe one day it won't be economical to promote commercial bands. Then people will actually listen to music they like and that they connect to instead of listening to the garbage that the recording industries forces down their throats.
 
Apple has been much to slow to enter the market occupied bye HomePod, Squeezebox, EyeHome, et al. Although they would be sure to dominate the market (at least as far as Mac users are concerned) as soon as they entered it whether or not they waited until the end of this year, I'm betting it's just around the corner. The market sounds more than ready.
 
How many of you have flashed your DVD-ROM in order to make it region free?

Doing that violates both traditional copyright law (the firmware you downloaded was a derivative work that was illegally distributed) and the DMCA (circumventing access control).
 
greg75 said:
How many of you have flashed your DVD-ROM in order to make it region free?

Doing that violates both traditional copyright law (the firmware you downloaded was a derivative work that was illegally distributed) and the DMCA (circumventing access control).

I got my region-free formware update from the drive manufacturer. Darned if I can see what would be wrong or illegal about that.
 
appleguru1 said:
You can... If you have a squeezebox (SliMP3-ish device...), a piece of software written by a friend of mine autmotically uses QT to decompress your .m4ps to .aiff and stream to your stereo...
Sounds great. So how does your friend's software work? Does it expand everything into .aiff? If that's the case, it would be a problem because I don't have that kind of HD space. Does the device directly access my iTunes playlist? 'Cause it be kind of a pain to have to use my computer (two rooms away) to control what's playing. I'm just a little concerned about accomplishing all this with hacks, when what we're really talking about is only a marginal improvement over CDs. Mainly I'm interested in all this to make my life easier--to get rid of CD clutter, to have my music all available at a central location. If the cost of all that is Terminal hacks, messy file structures, patches etc., then it's not worth it to me.
 
I think this is great

One of the things that bothers me the most about ITMS is that you can only play your downloaded songs on an iPod. Apple is refusing to license fairplay. We constantly complain about MS's monopolistic practices, but I can remember them doing anything like this. I really dont think this restriction has much to do with the RIAA as Coke seems to have found a way to get a legal online music store going which isn't MP3 player specific (soon many other people will too).

I think the primary utility of this software will be to allow people to play songs on non Apple MP3 players. If Apple has a problem with that F**k them. There is nothing illegal about playing that song on any other medium provided the person that purchased it is the one listening to it. It just saves you the hassle of having to rip it to a CD and then back to your computer.
 
nmk said:
One of the things that bothers me the most about ITMS is that you can only play your downloaded songs on an iPod. Apple is refusing to license fairplay. We constantly complain about MS's monopolistic practices, but I can remember them doing anything like this.

apple's monopoly here is vertical, which is not illegal. making iTMS only work with iPod is no more illegal than making PS2 DVD games work only with PS2 console.

if apple leveraged it's online music prowess to sign recording labels to an exclusive contract so that online music will only play with iPod and make all other mp3 players obsolete - then the monopoly becomes horizontal (like M$) and illegal.
 
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