Flawless isn't really a subjective term. It means without any flaws - and thus the answer to the OPs question is no.
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Please help! I want to keep my rMBP for minimum 8 yrs, will the i7, 16gb be enough?
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Flawless isn't really a subjective term. It means without any flaws - and thus the answer to the OPs question is no.
>
Which is why he probably didn't mean it in the literal sense of the word. Probably should have used a different word, but I'm guessing he mean't without any hardware breaking down and without the computer getting too slow - but then that's where the subjectiveness comes in. How slow is too slow.
Hi,
I need your opinions please.
I'm about to purchase a Haswell based 13' rMBP and I want to keep it an absolute minimum of 8 years.
Do you guys think getting the i7 and 16gb of ram will be enough to keep this machine running flawlessly for 8 years time?
Thank you for any opinions and advice
You're wise to target the highest-end machines for long-term use. Build quality, component quality, overall power... these will keep your investment safe and result in lower overall costs in the long haul. Maxing out the RAM is also wise, especially considering that the rMBPs can't be upgraded.
Besides: What else would you consider in this form factor? It's not like there are many more powerful alternatives.
The 15" rMBP might be even more future-proof with four versus two cores and more powerful graphics processing (IIRC), but time marches on and software tends to advance and require more powerful hardware and more RAM no matter what.
Eight years is a very long time in the computer world. Parts will grow scarce and software (including OS updates) will grow incompatible. The horizon for such things is about five years, practically speaking.
I'd expect such a great machine will still be working well in eight years but you'll probably have had to replace the battery and keyboard once or twice. (A functional battery is especially important for the rMBPs as their MagSafe 2 connectors are easy to inadvertently disconnect. That's just a minor annoyance, unless your battery is kaput.) The longevity of SSDs over that timeframe is an unknown at present. Certainly a mechanical hard disk would have crapped out and needed replacement once or twice...
And that assumes you don't drop it!
Good luck!
Theoretically, you could write a few dozen gigabytes of data per day to a modern SSD and still get a decade or more out of it.
Yeah... theoretically.
I've had too many flash-based thumb drives die without warning to trust that entirely, though. I do trust Apple to have chosen their SSDs carefully and tested them extensively, though. But eight years... that's a long time for anything electronic.
Comparing thumb drive longevity to that of an SSD is not really apt because of the differences in NAND, controllers, over provisioning, and so forth.
Hi,
I need your opinions please.
I'm about to purchase a Haswell based 13' rMBP and I want to keep it an absolute minimum of 8 years.
Do you guys think getting the i7 and 16gb of ram will be enough to keep this machine running flawlessly for 8 years time?
Thank you for any opinions and advice
If you keep stuff for a long time then you should already have an idea of whether your requirements change quickly or slowly. Apart from the occasional failure, current Macs will only be obsolete if your requirements change or if new S/W requires more power/capabilities.
If you don't want to do anything very different and stick to the next 2 years' S/W then why won't it still be OK in 8 years time ?
For many people their Retina MacBook Pro didn't last more than 16 months: it developed image retention and they didn't have Apple Care so that was it. Many stories like this on MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?
It makes zero sense to think you can keep any computer for 8 years and have it be worthwhile.
Hi,
I need your opinions please.
I'm about to purchase a Haswell based 13' rMBP and I want to keep it an absolute minimum of 8 years.
Do you guys think getting the i7 and 16gb of ram will be enough to keep this machine running flawlessly for 8 years time?
Thank you for any opinions and advice
Again, OP may want to consider a refurbished (and likely upgraded) cMBP. Throw in a SSD if you want and 8gb RAM for now (maybe do 16 later). Depending in your uses, the benefits of being able to replace failed parts later may outweigh the retina display and slimmer body. Battery life is probably negligible with Mavericks. The processor speed differences between Ivy Bridge and Haswell also aren't that much. You lose out on ports, but those change quickly anyway.
This would be a good idea if the OP was trying to last 4-5 years on the cheap, but 8 years "flawlessly" (not really possible anyway) is even harder with a cMBP.
My thought was the ability to change out parts on a cMBP. That's a lot easier to do than on a rMBP. Refurbished because OP might find one with higher specs than the new ones you can buy right now. Even if he/she buys a new base model, they can upgrade the RAM and hard drive. Stores like Micro Center and probably some others will install the new hardware for a small fee if OP doesn't want to do it themselves. My greater concern was the battery though. A cMBP can definitely be replaced in 4-5 years quite easily while the rMBP will probably only be able to be done by Apple or an AASP for a chunk of change. In terms of build quality, if you put a SSD in the cMBP, there probably isn't a whole lot of difference. My mid-2009 MBP just got a new battery and a Mavericks upgrade, and it's doing pretty well.
Yeah, remember that the OP's issue isn't money--s/he just gets upset at the idea of having to buy a new computer. So, the most powerful computer would be the best in longevity if he wants to max it out now--really a maxed-out 15" rmbp would probably be the most useful for the longest, with Apple battery replacements. Same for the 13", if he doesn't want a 15" laptop--at least it will have the latest processor. I assume that Apple will still be happy to make $$$ off of replacement batteries a few years from now.
You're going to get much more stress/anxiety after 4 years or so anyway from having an obsolete laptop (unless you only do web surfing and email). Want to eliminate ALL of the stress? Every 4 years buy the mid tier model and resell your old one. The mid tier is pretty much guaranteed to be sufficient for 4 years and will still carry decent resale value.
You're essentially creating more stress by trying to pin down exactly what you need to last 8 years. Don't over analyze.
You're essentially creating more stress by trying to pin down exactly what you need to last 8 years. Don't over analyze.
This makes sense except for this which was my whole point:
You can't buy a cMBP that is faster then the new rMBPs. That's why they're new.
Here is the baseline MacBook Pro in 2006. It's around 7 years old and would be skimpy today, but operable for browsing and whatnot.
Essentials
Family: MacBook Pro
Codename: ?
Gestalt ID: 406
Minimum OS: 10.4.4
Maximum OS: 10.6.8
Introduced: January 2006
Terminated: October 2006
Processor
CPU: Intel Core Duo (T2xxx)
CPU Speed: 1.83/2.0/2.16 GHz
CPU Cores: 2
FPU: integrated
Bus Speed: 667 MHz
Register Width: 32-bit
Data Bus Width: 32-bit
Address Bus Width: 32-bit
ROM: 1 MB ROM + 3 MB toolbox ROM loaded into RAM
RAM Type: PC2-5300 SO-DIMM
Minimum RAM Speed: 667 MHz
Onboard RAM: 0 MB
RAM slots: 2
Maximum RAM: 2 GB
Level 1 Cache: 32 kB data, 32 kB instruction
Level 2 Cache: 2 MB on-processor
Expansion Slots: 1 ExpressCard/34
Video
Screen: 15.4" active matrix TFT
GPU: ATI Mobility Radeon X1600
VRAM: 128/256 MB GDDR3
Max Resolution: 1440x900
Video Out: dual-link DVI
Camera: iSight
Storage
Hard Drive: 80/100 GB 5400 RPM (w/SMS) (120 GB 5400 rpm or 100 GB 7200 rpm BTO)
ATA Bus: Serial-ATA
Optical Drive: 24x/24x/10x/8x/4x/4x CD-RW/DVD±RW
Input/Output
USB: 2 2.0
Firewire: 1
Audio Out: stereo 24 bit mini, Optical S/PDIF
Audio In: stereo 24 bit mini, Optical S/PDIF
Speaker: stereo
Microphone: mono
Networking
Ethernet: 10/100/1000BaseT
Airport Extreme: included
Bluetooth: 2.0+EDR
Essentials
Family: MacBook Pro
Codename: ?
Gestalt ID: 406
Minimum OS: 10.4.4
Maximum OS: 10.6.8
Introduced: January 2006
Terminated: October 2006
Processor
CPU: Intel Core Duo (T2xxx)
CPU Speed: 1.83/2.0/2.16 GHz
CPU Cores: 2
FPU: integrated
Bus Speed: 667 MHz
Register Width: 32-bit
Data Bus Width: 32-bit
Address Bus Width: 32-bit
ROM: 1 MB ROM + 3 MB toolbox ROM loaded into RAM
RAM Type: PC2-5300 SO-DIMM
Minimum RAM Speed: 667 MHz
Onboard RAM: 0 MB
RAM slots: 2
Maximum RAM: 2 GB
Level 1 Cache: 32 kB data, 32 kB instruction
Level 2 Cache: 2 MB on-processor
Expansion Slots: 1 ExpressCard/34
Video
Screen: 15.4" active matrix TFT
GPU: ATI Mobility Radeon X1600
VRAM: 128/256 MB GDDR3
Max Resolution: 1440x900
Video Out: dual-link DVI
Camera: iSight
Storage
Hard Drive: 80/100 GB 5400 RPM (w/SMS) (120 GB 5400 rpm or 100 GB 7200 rpm BTO)
ATA Bus: Serial-ATA
Optical Drive: 24x/24x/10x/8x/4x/4x CD-RW/DVD±RW
Input/Output
USB: 2 2.0
Firewire: 1
Audio Out: stereo 24 bit mini, Optical S/PDIF
Audio In: stereo 24 bit mini, Optical S/PDIF
Speaker: stereo
Microphone: mono
Networking
Ethernet: 10/100/1000BaseT
Airport Extreme: included
Bluetooth: 2.0+EDR
I have had three computers since 2005, which would be eight years.
The first was a Dell Latitude D610, which I purchased in August 2005. It had several initial warranty repairs, (I had some bad luck with hard drives) but when the warranty expired in 2008, it worked decently well. In 2009, a display hinge spring broke, and it has been used on-and-off as a headless computer for a while since that point. Repair was an option here, but I opted against it, as I was functionally only using it as a headless pseudo-server at that point. If I had to, I feel I would have been OK using that computer up until about 2010, so six years of use.
This computer was a 2.0Ghz Celeron processor, came with 1GB of RAM, and maxed out at 2GB of RAM. It uses a PATA hard drive, which makes upgrading it to an SSD today somewhat difficult. Using it today, it really hasn't slowed down any, but using it makes me realize just how much more responsive we expect our machines to be, compared to the last decade.
---
The second was a Unibody '08 Macbook, which I purchased in December 2008. I have had zero major issues with this machine, and upgraded it's internals several times over the course of it's lifetime. In late 2011, I upgraded so that my dad could take this system; he has been using it since, but the machine is beginning to show it's age: the fan is beginning to wear out, and the display hinge is getting a bit loose. He's currently waiting on a work-provided rMBP, which he intends to use to replace this machine. So, combined, we're looking at five years of use, but with still some options to replace components and get it working for another 1-2 years.
This computer is a 2.4Ghz C2D, came with 2GB RAM, and maxed out at 8GB of RAM. Using it today isn't bad: I always had a complaint on the screen resolution (1280x800), and the graphics aged much faster than the rest of the machine, but it's still quite usable, especially with an SSD inside.
---
The third was a late '11 15" MBP, which is also my current machine. I purchased this with the intent of it being my primary machine for three years, though it may end up lasting four. (my plan is to get a 13" rMBP at some point, but I'm waiting for the intel graphics to catch up at this point) Since I've only had it two years at this point, I can't really speak on quality, other than that nothing's broke on it yet.
---
I think, personally, there's a bit of a diminishing returns when you're talking about future-proofing a machine. When people ask me about computers, one of the things I tell them with recommendations is that I look for laptops that will last for three years, and desktops that will last for five. Usually, this gets surprised looks, because I recommend a $800 computer to last three years, when they were expecting a $500 computer to last five years. (they look at my computer and think they can make theirs last, I look at their old computer and see their understanding of computer maintenance)
When it comes to reliability and "will it last" questions, Macbooks and ThinkPads are always my two high recommendations. (they both drop from time to time for various reasons, but they're always towards the top) That being said, though, asking if a rMBP will last eight years, and eight years at good efficiency, is daunting.
Towards the end of that length of time, besides 1-2 battery replacements, you'll probably reach wear failure rates on most of the components. The three in particular I'd be concerned about:
If you're worried about machine specs, it really depends on what you intend on doing, not just today, but down the line. If I was still running 2005 software, with 2005 expectations, that Latitude would still probably be sufficient for my needs. But things change, and so do one's needs.
In all honesty, it sounds like you have a substantial budget right now. I would honestly say to look at pushing some of that money down the road and buying something a couple notches down today. Instead of spending ~$2k (depending on the drive size, what you said specs to this +/- $200, minus applecare), I'd put down $1.5k today on an i5, then start an upgrade cycle every 3-4 years; macs retain resale value pretty well, so you'd probably be looking at an upgrade investment of ~$1000 every time you upgrade.
The advantage there is that, if you're needs change down the line, you aren't stuck with such a large commitment. If suddenly, in 2017, your graphics card needs exceed those of a Haswell Iris Pro, moving to a Cannonlake MBP (Haswell->Broadwell->Skylake->Cannonlake) doesn't require as large of a leap.
The first was a Dell Latitude D610, which I purchased in August 2005. It had several initial warranty repairs, (I had some bad luck with hard drives) but when the warranty expired in 2008, it worked decently well. In 2009, a display hinge spring broke, and it has been used on-and-off as a headless computer for a while since that point. Repair was an option here, but I opted against it, as I was functionally only using it as a headless pseudo-server at that point. If I had to, I feel I would have been OK using that computer up until about 2010, so six years of use.
This computer was a 2.0Ghz Celeron processor, came with 1GB of RAM, and maxed out at 2GB of RAM. It uses a PATA hard drive, which makes upgrading it to an SSD today somewhat difficult. Using it today, it really hasn't slowed down any, but using it makes me realize just how much more responsive we expect our machines to be, compared to the last decade.
---
The second was a Unibody '08 Macbook, which I purchased in December 2008. I have had zero major issues with this machine, and upgraded it's internals several times over the course of it's lifetime. In late 2011, I upgraded so that my dad could take this system; he has been using it since, but the machine is beginning to show it's age: the fan is beginning to wear out, and the display hinge is getting a bit loose. He's currently waiting on a work-provided rMBP, which he intends to use to replace this machine. So, combined, we're looking at five years of use, but with still some options to replace components and get it working for another 1-2 years.
This computer is a 2.4Ghz C2D, came with 2GB RAM, and maxed out at 8GB of RAM. Using it today isn't bad: I always had a complaint on the screen resolution (1280x800), and the graphics aged much faster than the rest of the machine, but it's still quite usable, especially with an SSD inside.
---
The third was a late '11 15" MBP, which is also my current machine. I purchased this with the intent of it being my primary machine for three years, though it may end up lasting four. (my plan is to get a 13" rMBP at some point, but I'm waiting for the intel graphics to catch up at this point) Since I've only had it two years at this point, I can't really speak on quality, other than that nothing's broke on it yet.
---
I think, personally, there's a bit of a diminishing returns when you're talking about future-proofing a machine. When people ask me about computers, one of the things I tell them with recommendations is that I look for laptops that will last for three years, and desktops that will last for five. Usually, this gets surprised looks, because I recommend a $800 computer to last three years, when they were expecting a $500 computer to last five years. (they look at my computer and think they can make theirs last, I look at their old computer and see their understanding of computer maintenance)
When it comes to reliability and "will it last" questions, Macbooks and ThinkPads are always my two high recommendations. (they both drop from time to time for various reasons, but they're always towards the top) That being said, though, asking if a rMBP will last eight years, and eight years at good efficiency, is daunting.
Towards the end of that length of time, besides 1-2 battery replacements, you'll probably reach wear failure rates on most of the components. The three in particular I'd be concerned about:
- The fan(s).
- The hinge on the display.
- If you are doing a lot of drive-heavy work, you may reach the end-of-life write limits on your SSD.
If you're worried about machine specs, it really depends on what you intend on doing, not just today, but down the line. If I was still running 2005 software, with 2005 expectations, that Latitude would still probably be sufficient for my needs. But things change, and so do one's needs.
In all honesty, it sounds like you have a substantial budget right now. I would honestly say to look at pushing some of that money down the road and buying something a couple notches down today. Instead of spending ~$2k (depending on the drive size, what you said specs to this +/- $200, minus applecare), I'd put down $1.5k today on an i5, then start an upgrade cycle every 3-4 years; macs retain resale value pretty well, so you'd probably be looking at an upgrade investment of ~$1000 every time you upgrade.
The advantage there is that, if you're needs change down the line, you aren't stuck with such a large commitment. If suddenly, in 2017, your graphics card needs exceed those of a Haswell Iris Pro, moving to a Cannonlake MBP (Haswell->Broadwell->Skylake->Cannonlake) doesn't require as large of a leap.
I personally do not feel like 8 years is too far out of reach when it comes to holding onto a computer. Sure, it will be outdated and far slower than the latest and greatest but chances are it will still perform well when it comes to routine tasks such as email, web browsing, music playing, and other things that are not CPU intensive. Many years ago I bought one of my girlfriends a 12" PowerBook with the 1.5ghz G4 chip. She used it for about 8 years before it died. Yes, compared to today's machines, it was a real dog. But it still did everything she needed it to do, which ultimately is all that matters. Hell my grandfather is still using a PC I gave to him almost 10 years ago because all he does is surf the web and check his email and it's still kickin'.
I still have my 2010 MacBook Pro and it is able to keep up with just about anything I can throw at it. I made sure to get the top of the line model and have absolutely no regrets. I expect it to last for another 4 years minimum. Apple makes some fantastic products and I have found they really do last a long time when taken care of.
I still have my 2010 MacBook Pro and it is able to keep up with just about anything I can throw at it. I made sure to get the top of the line model and have absolutely no regrets. I expect it to last for another 4 years minimum. Apple makes some fantastic products and I have found they really do last a long time when taken care of.
I would buy something a little more future proof to get me through those 8 years more comfortably. Go with the quad core so you will at least have some useful processing power left in 2021.
My 3 year old MBP 13" has already been surpassed by a freakin iPad Air in terms of processing power, that kind of shows how fast the world is developing.
My 3 year old MBP 13" has already been surpassed by a freakin iPad Air in terms of processing power, that kind of shows how fast the world is developing.
In that particular instance I was not referring to "new" as in the rMBP. I meant the 13" cMBP that you can buy new-in-box.
Since the "new" cMBP is very low in terms of specs, OP could buy a refurbished model instead. Apple currently has a 13" 2.9ghz i7 with 8gb RAM and a 750gb HDD for $1269. In comparison, a fully maxed out 13" rMBP is $2699. That's a $1430 savings which is plenty to buy a SSD and upgrade the RAM in the cMBP over time.
While the rMBP is certainly a superior machine in many regards, I think the cMBP is worth considering in this instance. If OP wants to keep a laptop for so long, obviously he/she doesn't care that much about having the latest and greatest. Better to get a machine that can easily be repaired to extend its life rather than one that might as well be thrown away long before OP is ready to do so.
Hi,
I need your opinions please.
I'm about to purchase a Haswell based 13' rMBP and I want to keep it an absolute minimum of 8 years.
Do you guys think getting the i7 and 16gb of ram will be enough to keep this machine running flawlessly for 8 years time?
Thank you for any opinions and advice
Just want to ask you: Why do you wish to use a laptop for 8 years???
It would make more sense that you get a baseline model every 4-6 years.
Hi,
I need your opinions please.
I'm about to purchase a Haswell based 13' rMBP and I want to keep it an absolute minimum of 8 years.
Do you guys think getting the i7 and 16gb of ram will be enough to keep this machine running flawlessly for 8 years time?
Thank you for any opinions and advice
I recommend that you rethink an 8 year cycle. This is based upon human factors that will lead you down the wrong path. Just being concerned with the life of the computer oversimplifies the use case, because you must consider the many other factors.
Today's rMBP is over 4 times faster than an 8 year old desktop.
In 8 years technology advanced to the point where laptops have to a large part made desktops obsolete.
In 8 years tablets went from nothing to making netbooks obsolete.
My $0.02...Save your money. Get the i5/8gb and reassess about 4 years from now.