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rjalex

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 27, 2011
275
63
Rome, Italy
My iMac "died" on me a few months back and until now "survived" with my macbook but things are tough sometimes.

I know it's old but worked so well for my needs and this is not the moment to be even thinking about buying a new one, so please if you can help me diagnose.

I had already posted a similar thread in which the "impression" was about a failure of the graphics card.

As fixing that is not an option at the moment (and would probably just jump on the occasion and buy a new one if I could afford it) I'm asking is there's a way to be "sure" of this or rather ideas to exclude a memory or OS problem.

Here's the description of what I experience:

The iMac boots with one of the usual chimes and the first screen with the apple and a progression bar seems fine.

At about midway though the normal boot screen gets substituted by an abnormal "white noise" screen (will post picture) after which the boot screen resumes seemingly correctly, then loads my "defocused wallpaper" but then instead of progressing to the login or desktop it only opens a strange black window with nothing in it, the corners missing, a blue square.

Mouse pointer is well formed and moves normally but nothing reacts and the only thing I can do is force a shutdown by keeping the power button pressed for several seconds.

When the iMac broke I was working in Lightroom normally and I believe just in coincidence when I loaded a new image the image loaded with glitches and at first I thought that it was the image to be corrupted but then all the desktop started corrupting and that was the end.

Tried booting with the D letter on the bluetooth keyboard pressed but this only stops boot at the "white noise" screen. When I release it it proceeds with the "unfocused desktop wallpaper" and then the single widget-less window on which I tried clicking and can only drag around.

Here is roughly the sequence:

IMG_2864.jpeg

IMG_2865.jpeg

IMG_2858.jpeg

IMG_2859.jpeg

Any ideas on how I could understand if it's memory, graphic card or OS corruption?

Thank you very very much I am really in need of saving this old fossil spending less possible :)
 
Hello,
I do not think this is memory (that causes usually complete system crash) and I am not sure this is graphic card. It is not impossible, but there are too many parts of the screen drawn correctly and that black box is behaving "correctly" - in way that it moves and interacts with cursor.
Did you try to boot in Internet hardware test? Option (⌥)—D See if that works.
***
It is possible this is system files corruption, in which case next step depends on what you have...
Do you have proper, tested, and reliable backups? If yes, life is easier and you can do next steps without much worry.
If not, you should probably swap the main drive in the machine with some other drive and keep current safely away.
If this iMac still uses rotating Hard drive, buy SSD with SATA interface (they are cheap now) with sufficient size and replace internal drive.
If this is sufficently late system, it may be able to boot in Internet recovery. That would be : Command (⌘)—Option (⌥)—R. And install whatever Apple gives you and then upgrade to the latest version of macOS, if it works, of course...
If this system cannot boot in Internet recovery, you need to download the the latest version of macOS your iMac supports from Apple (they have page with links to installers (use google), easier to find than searching in App store). You may need to put this on HFS formatted USB stick and install on the iMac from there.
If the mac boots in installer with good graphics, chance is graphic card is OK.
There are two types of installations:
1. Over existing system. If you have macOS version at least same or newer as installer, you can install without formatting the drive. That should preserve content of your drive and simply replace existing system. And fix most issues (but not all) which can cause troubles. Not all, as pointed out. But is a good first step.
2. Clean install. Format drive before installation, there is option to do so during installation, actually. Will fix all potential issues with the system, but will remove all your data first and you need to restore them from backup. Which assumes you HAVE BACKUP. To do so you can use Migration assistant, which is actually surprisingly good.
 
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First try booting in Safe Mode by pressing and holding SHIFT when starting your iMac. It really looks like a faulty GPU but it could be a corrupted install. If you can boot in safe mode, it will be really slow, that is normal because the gpu drivers are not loaded. I have a 2009 27" iMac with a faulty GPU, i can still use it as an external monitor as Target Display Mode still works in safe mode. Also i see on you first pictures there are faint pink stripes vertically across the screen, sorry to say that is what happens when the gpu is dying. Anyway let us know if it boots properly in safe mode.
 
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I have to agree with Nguyen in the post above.

If you're not willing to fix the graphics on what you have now, it's time for a replacement.
Actually, I recommend AGAINST fixing it -- not worth spending money on a 9-year-old iMac.

If you can't afford a new (or Apple refurbished iMac), I would suggest an Apple refurbished Mac Mini. They're great little Macs.
 
If you can't afford a new (or Apple refurbished iMac), I would suggest an Apple refurbished Mac Mini. They're great little Macs.

Agree, buy a Mac mini, and 1 adapter that can connect the graphic output from the Mac Mini to the miniDisplayPort on the iMac, use the iMac as the 27" monitor.
You have just repaired and upgraded the iMac to better specs.
 
Thank you all. Very grateful for your advice. No I am not able to repair the iMac myself and cannot afford buying a replacement.
The dead iMac 27" was connected to a live Timemachine server until it went belly up.
Not sure I'd want to restore more than an handful of personal files from it.
Can you suggest the best price/perfomance model for the Mac mini?
Also what type of adapter would be necessary to use the 27" screen?
If I understand what you suggest the 27" would be turned on and despite the broken GPU would be used as the mini's display, right?
IMG_2873.jpeg

The connector is the little one between the Ethernet and FW800 ports, right?
 
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Thank you all. Very grateful for your advice. No I am not able to repair the iMac myself and cannot afford buying a replacement.
The dead iMac 27" was connected to a live Timemachine server until it went belly up.
Not sure I'd want to restore more than an handful of personal files from it.
Can you suggest the best price/perfomance model for the Mac mini?
Also what type of adapter would be necessary to use the 27" screen?
If I understand what you suggest the 27" would be turned on and despite the broken GPU would be used as the mini's display, right?

The connector is the little one between the Ethernet and FW800 ports, right?

1. If you can get to the login screen, then yes, you can use the iMac as a 27" Monitor.
2. I don't know about the Mac Mini, but the logic is: Newer is better, so buy the newest one you can afford. It should come with at least 8GB of RAM and an >240GB SSD inside for OS.
3. Adapter will depend greatly on what Mac Mini you would buy and what port it has. Options are below:

3.1 HDMI Port: HDMI to mDP active adapter (not very common)
3.2 Thunderbolt 2 port: Use a mini DisplayPort to MiniDisplayPort cable is enough for output. Thunderbolt 2 is backward compatible to miniDisplayport (downstream only)
3.3 Thunderbolt 3 port: You can buy a USB-C to MiniDisplayPort cable, but it's not very popular. More expensive, but easier to find is the combination of USB-C to multiport (including DisplayPort) hub, plus a DisplayPort to miniDisplayport cable. Another expensive option is the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, then miniDisplayPort cable.

The miniDisplayPort is the one next to the LAN port, or ethernet port.
 
Thank you.
No the current broken iMac 27" does not reach a login screen but only that "fuzzy desktop background"+"widgetless black window" ... nothing more.
In alternative what would be a decent but budget conscious 27-ish monitor?
I mostly do full stack web development (learning) and occasionally photo and video editing. No gaming.
 
I'm going to suggest one last thing for you to try -- a wired keyboard.

If I'm reading your posts correctly, you're using a Bluetooth KB and some of the KB boot commands don't seem to work.

I have a much newer iMac and on the very rare occasions that it's gotten itself confused, it hasn't responded to any BT KB commands early enough.

So I suggest just giving it a try with a wired KB, to see if you can get somewhere. If you can't, well, at least you tried everything.
 
As @monokakata said, try a working keyboard.
The Widgetless black windows seems to be derived from a sticky keyboard.
Remember to remove all other USB devices, and remove the battery out of you wireless keyboard before trying.
Better yet, first try booting the iMac without any keyboard or mouse (remove the batteries or take them far away from the iMac) to see if the black window persist.
 
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OP:

You want a 2018/20 Mini (whether "2018" or "2020", it's really the same thing).

They come with i3, i5 and i7 CPU's.
If you can't afford the i5, get the i3.

I recommend that you get 16gb of RAM "from the factory", but again, if price is an issue, 8gb will have to do. But the Mini runs better with 16gb.

They ALL come with SSDs inside.
Try to get at least 256gb.

If you can buy from Apple's refurbished page, go here:

IMPORTANT!
The Mac Minis "come and go" quickly at the refurbished page.
You have to visit this page 3-4 times daily (morning, noon, evening, night).
If the configuration you want appears, you have to buy it IMMEDIATELY, or it will be gone in an hour or two.

For a display, you could check out this list:

You should look for 27" displays, either 1080p or 4k.
4k will cost more.
Or... consider a 32" 1440p (QHD) display. These have a native resolution of 2560x1440, and look very good. Price-wise, they fall between the two choices above.
 
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So tried with no keyboard at all (wireless K and mouse took batteries away) ... after some time the black window went away and I got to a password entry box without anything else. Tried my passwords but none work.
Tried with wired keyboard (an IBM Thinkpad external USB keyboard) and mouse pressing Shift as advised above and after a looooong boot OMG OMG with some strange screen flashing but then got to the login screen, logged in as myself and whoa I seem to be on my desktop.
Can't believe it !!!!!! WOW
So could I hope it's "just" a corruption of the OS???
I'm not remembering the OS version but I think it was Sierra since I seem to recall that High Sierra made that old machine sluggish.
What would you try next?
Thank you sooooo much for this help.
 
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So tried with no keyboard at all (wireless K and mouse took batteries away) ... after some time the black window went away and I got to a password entry box without anything else. Tried my passwords but none work.
Tried with wired keyboard (an IBM Thinkpad external USB keyboard) and mouse pressing Shift as advised above and after a looooong boot OMG OMG with some strange screen flashing but then got to the login screen, logged in as myself and whoa I seem to be on my desktop.
Can't believe it !!!!!! WOW
So could I hope it's "just" a corruption of the OS???
I'm not remembering the OS version but I think it was Sierra since I seem to recall that High Sierra made that old machine sluggish.
What would you try next?
Thank you sooooo much for this help.

So it does seem to be the OS then... Maybe. Did you try to run Apple Hardware Test / Apple Diagnostics as recommended in another response?

Try to follow the steps listed on this page. It should tell you if there's a hardware problem with your machine.


Continue to use a wired keyboard, too.
 
Good news! It seems you booted into Safe Mode, which means that the OS didn't load everything it was being asked to load previously. So you're in a kind of minimalist state.

If I were you, I'd now grab some kind of external disk and copy off everything important, using Finder.

Then I'd shut down and see whether you can now get a normal boot (no commands of any kind, just let it boot).

Assuming that it boots normally, then, having again made sure there's nothing on the machine you can't afford to lose (meaning that you've copied it all somewhere else) I'd just go about my business for a while, and see how the machine behaves. If it gets wonky again, then I'd reinstall the OS and go from there.
 
So tried with no keyboard at all (wireless K and mouse took batteries away) ... after some time the black window went away and I got to a password entry box without anything else. Tried my passwords but none work.
Tried with wired keyboard (an IBM Thinkpad external USB keyboard) and mouse pressing Shift as advised above and after a looooong boot OMG OMG with some strange screen flashing but then got to the login screen, logged in as myself and whoa I seem to be on my desktop.
Can't believe it !!!!!! WOW
So could I hope it's "just" a corruption of the OS???
I'm not remembering the OS version but I think it was Sierra since I seem to recall that High Sierra made that old machine sluggish.
What would you try next?
Thank you sooooo much for this help.

You have just detected and solve the keyboard issue.
GPU issue still persist.
With GPU issue, you can't do anything except opening the iMac to replace. Heavy graphic task will worsen the GPU issue.

Better stick with the initial plan: buy a Mac mini and use the iMac as monitor.
You can unpair the keyboard and mouse to use on the Mac Mini, but still keep the USB keyboard in the iMac to switch on/off Target Display Mode and control brightness.
 
Thank everyone.
No way I am getting the hardware tests (D on keyboard does not do anything).
If the iMac boots normally I get to an unusable state with corrupted graphics.
If I boot in safe mode I have a nice desktop and finder and I could backup files but since the machine has been permanently attached on a Timemachine I guess that's not even necessary, right? Should find my files there if needed.
So probably will go the Mac mini route and if I can afford it will maybe also go for a new monitor and forgo the old i27 altogether.
Thank you all from the bottom of my heart for trying to help.
PS I am trying to build my skills as a fullstack developer (OpenAPI, Flask, MongoDB backend + React/Bootstrap frontend) and really need a decent machine with a decent largish screen to save my eyes :)
 
It's good you have a TM backup, so no need for emergency copying.

But . . . if you have a working desktop in safe mode -- have you tried Lightroom? -- then I do wonder whether there's a hardware issue.

Before spending money, what about reinstalling the OS? Corrupted drivers are going to hose your graphics, so maybe, just maybe, you don't have a hardware problem.
 
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i will try your suggestions even though until now I am not finding a downloadable version of Mac OS Sierra that can be made into a bootable USB stick. Mac app store does not have it anymore it seems.
I did fins a .dmg file that when mounted gives an InstallOS.pkg but cannot extract what Disk Creator needs and refuses to run on my current Catalina system :(
 
Hm, google found me recently this: https://support.apple.com/downloads/macos and after some "more" buttons, I could download needed Combo update (that is full version, actually) of macOS version I needed.
There are tools which will make bootable USB out of that dmg files. Google it, hackintosh communities maintain those. Then you can boot on that and see, if you can fix the system. Alternatively, boot in safe mode and try to run this installer from there. It should work.
 
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