Please stop me from buying a MacBook Pro

[Samuelsan2001]

Like when Apple immediately addressed the Radeon dGPU issue Literally took years, and only when Apple knew it would loose it's ass in court, then and only then Apple offered the most watered down solution it could get away with. It's business, negative aka Red Money is never good, simple as that.

Apple's extremely good at triage, and will do it's utmost to contain such issues. FWIW I also have a rMB and it has had issue with the "E" key, however I was lucky and between beating on the key and canned air it freed up. IMHO these new extremely low travel keyboards Apple are designing are simply garbage. Others can provide adequate travel and even liquid resistance in similar thin chassis. Just what exactly is stopping Apple?

I own one myself (Huawei MateBook X) and my youngest inadvertently tested it with a glass of milk, net result clean up with no impact to the notebook. This being an MBP I'd be in for a four figure bill by default. You want to strive to be the best, you have to deliver, then everything else follows naturally...

Q-6
[doublepost=1516649535][/doublepost]

Knock yourself out and buy one then. What I do know, is if it fails, it can potentially cost me more than the price of the product on a daily basis. So think I'll stick with notebook's that don't have any known failure mechanisms. Turnaround time on repair of the poorly designed keyboard is extensive nor guaranteed to resolve. Majority of professional's have backup systems, equally we don't plan to use them, especially due to something as basic as this

Personally I feel for those that have saved for several years to purchase a MBP, only to be let down by Apple's lack of due diligence and for some once out of warranty $700 is a significant cost...

Q-6

The Radeon failure you mention was in no way exclusives to apple. Apple are just the only one to accept and fix the issue outside warranty.

If you can make the cost of the machine in a day then you should just buy 2 and have a back up machine. You admit it yourself you have a back up system and it doesn't Matter which computer you buy it’s quite possible you will need it. Of course it’s well known by all of us macrumours regulars you have an axe to grind about the MBPs as they don’t fit your needs and this keyboard issue has been all the excuse you have needed to hammer them mercilessly.

I would be more sympathetic if you accepted that all computers have their issues and that anything you can currently buy has its weak points. Look at any forum for any electronic product and they will all have niggles and problems that affect an aspect of the machine for more customers than you would hope. That is the nature of the beast when change and innovation is so constant, consumers beta test electronic hardware it’s that simple.

However you seem unable to accept that for millions of people the MBP is still a great choice, just because it’s not for you doesn’t mean it’s not for everyone.

For example I hate windows, it’s a personal thing but if I think a windows machine is a better choice for someone, no matter what the reasons, i’ll recommend they get one. You seem unable to do this for the mbp when it is clearly a great choice for the person asking.

 

[casperghst42]

Why should someone have to stop you, if you want it or need it then buy it, if not, then don't.

 

[raqball]

I find Queen6's constant bashing of Apple products and praising of Windows quite funny. I also work as a professional as I'm sure most people here do (no need to drop that in to every post you make) and in the last two days I've seen an HP laptop not connect to a screen via HDMI during a board meeting because of a driver issue ("no dongle" as you like to bang on about) and just this morning one of my team's Lenovo laptops has died on its arse because apparently Windows 10 can't run with less than 5GB of free disk space (not ideal I know, but with a 128GB drive that's no excuse for it to refuse to run any programs.) Please stop claiming PCs are perfect and Apple products are disasters waiting to happen, you are talking utter nonsense. As for Apple "desperately wanting your approval", why do you spend all day on a Mac forum if you don't like Apple or Macs? Bizarre.

Regarding the price of the XPS, I'm going by Dell's own website RRP, not some random deal you can find online. That's like comparing an eBay purchase with something direct from Apple. The only XPS with an RRP of $1499 does not have a high DPI screen.

Queen6 is actually a very helpful member here and always has been. Attacking him is uncalled for in my opinion.

I am a computer having nutcase. Right now I have a Lenovo X1C, a Google Pixelbook and guess what I decided to buy yesterday? Yup a 2017 MacBook Pro. I got the 13" nTB 256GB SSD. Why? Well I miss MacOS. Do I think the MacBook Pro is a good value? No! Do I like it better than the other computers I have? Not really. Do I dig MacOS? yup!

I'll probably sell my Lenovo and keep the MacBook and the Pixelbook for now.

I don't have any issues with Windows 10, I have no issues with ChromeOS and I don't really have any issues with MacOS. I've had the Pro now (I had a 2016 when it was released and sold it) for 2 days and I've already got the dreaded beachball when opening a website...... YAWN!

Anyways, if Windows works better for someone then so be it. Get what works best for you and rock onward. As of right now I am diggin having MacOS back. The MacBook Pro? Meh, but I can't have one without the other.

My .02

 

[eddjedi]

Normally I would agree with you and I don't make a habit of singling people out (although by the way quoting people is exactly the same as naming them in the reply.)

But when somebody constantly tries to put everyone off a piece of hardware they don't even own based on hearsay, I think it's reasonable to call them out on it.

 

[Queen6]

The Radeon failure you mention was in no way exclusives to apple. Apple are just the only one to accept and fix the issue outside warranty.

If you can make the cost of the machine in a day then you should just buy 2 and have a back up machine. You admit it yourself you have a back up system and it doesn't Matter which computer you buy it’s quite possible you will need it. Of course it’s well known by all of us macrumours regulars you have an axe to grind about the MBPs as they don’t fit your needs and this keyboard issue has been all the excuse you have needed to hammer them mercilessly.

I would be more sympathetic if you accepted that all computers have their issues and that anything you can currently buy has its weak points. Look at any forum for any electronic product and they will all have niggles and problems that affect an aspect of the machine for more customers than you would hope. That is the nature of the beast when change and innovation is so constant, consumers beta test electronic hardware it’s that simple.

However you seem unable to accept that for millions of people the MBP is still a great choice, just because it’s not for you doesn’t mean it’s not for everyone.

For example I hate windows, it’s a personal thing but if I think a windows machine is a better choice for someone, no matter what the reasons, i’ll recommend they get one. You seem unable to do this for the mbp when it is clearly a great choice for the person asking.

I agree the Radeon GPU was not exclusive to Apple, equally dragged it's feet as long as it possibly could to the cost of it's customers refusing acknowledge "any" issue existed. With Apple only backing down due to impending court action it clearly knew it had no possibility of winning, no favours or goodwill here.

I do indeed have multiple systems including Mac's and I fully acknowledge that any mass produced complex device may incur issue, equally I wont endorse product with a known well documented issue. Personally the impact to me would be minimal as I'd simply replace it, equally as one member recently posted after a good number of years saving for an MBP only to be bitterly disappointed and a less than simple repair option...

No excuses required, there is more than enough anecdotal evidence to indicate that the 2016 MBP and to lesser extents the 2017 MBP has a design issue related to the keyboard. People want to give Apple a pass fine, personally I wont. Issue is solely due to inadequate testing during development, with sales and marketing in the drivers seat, leaving Apple with a problematic keyboard that will take multiple revisions to satisfactorily resolve or not as the case may be.

If I really wanted to berate Apple I would speak of the Mac's that have failed and have I used, equally I consider the problems to be random events not the result of a flawed design.

For me and numerous colleagues and friends the opinion is the stability of macOs has significantly diminished. By nature my work is cyclic when at home the Mac's are fine under light usage, once an engineering project this significantly changes to systems that struggle to remain to be up for more than 4-5 days, with subsequent loss of work. The only difference is the load on the OS. One can only do so many clean installs of the OS, reload known good backup images to realise the underpinning issue is related to the OS, nor is OSX a mystery to me after over 20 years.

I speak from my own personal and direct experience and those I directly interact with, nor do I suggest all randomly switch to Windows 10 as it too has it's foibles, equally many Windows OEM systems are perfectly decent products that are not inherently flawed. From my experience the latest MBP is designed more to serve Apple than it's customers and that's what truly irks me, moving ever further away from being a computer to more of an appliance...

As ever your fully entitled to your opinion and I very much welcome well thought out and constructed responses.

Q-6

 

[raqball]

Yup @Queen6... The 2017 MacBook Pro I just purchased has umm.... well.... developed a KB issues on day 3... The [ esc ] key and the right side [ option ] key only register presses about 75% of the time.. The other 25% of the time they do nothing, nada, zilcho.

I am not a happy camper but since it's only 3 days old, the Q is do I want to exchange it and roll the dice on another or just buy a base Surface Book 2... I sold my Lenovo X1C last night so I am def looking at either exchanging it OR returning it and snarfing up the SB 2..

I am diggin having MacOS back after a year and a half of going without it but meh... The sticky keys are causing me concern. I'll have to kick the idea around and decide what I want to do.

 

[Queen6]

Yup @Queen6... The 2017 MacBook Pro I just purchased has umm.... well.... developed a KB issues on day 3... The [ esc ] key and the right side [ option ] key only register presses about 75% of the time.. The other 25% of the time they do nothing, nada, zilcho.

I am not a happy camper but since it's only 3 days old, the Q is do I want to exchange it and roll the dice on another or just buy a base Surface Book 2... I sold my Lenovo X1C last night so I am def looking at either exchanging it OR returning it and snarfing up the SB 2..

I am diggin having MacOS back after a year and a half of going without it but meh... The sticky keys are causing me concern. I'll have to kick the idea around and decide what I want to do.

Problem is it's a risk and in this case a known one. Given Apple's history they wont resolve until the next iteration of the MBP, assuming it remains compatible with the 16/17 keyboard. If not, those with the 16/17 will be SOL. You know the options. I'd return it for a replacement and make it abundantly clear to Apple that your intention is to do the same until you get one that works as expected.

From reports Surface Books can too be problematic, although my Gen one remains perfect. Often on the Web it can be difficult to see the wood from the trees, equally current MBP keyboard is clearly flawed. Personally what I see it's related to usage harder you push the system hotter it gets, more chance of the keyboard crapping out, with the 15" being more prevalent. For me 3 days in I'd be sending it straight back...

The real issue is when your pass the 14 day return window, then the fun and games will really start. Same as the 15" MBP dGPU fiasco Apple should be compelled to replace every single unit by a court of law, then and only then will Apple stop pulling the same stunts, replacing badly designed components with the same may, worse still reworked may absolve Apple, equally it does little for it's users in the long term...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

Queen6 is actually a very helpful member here and always has been. Attacking him is uncalled for in my opinion.

I am a computer having nutcase. Right now I have a Lenovo X1C, a Google Pixelbook and guess what I decided to buy yesterday? Yup a 2017 MacBook Pro. I got the 13" nTB 256GB SSD. Why? Well I miss MacOS. Do I think the MacBook Pro is a good value? No! Do I like it better than the other computers I have? Not really. Do I dig MacOS? yup!

I'll probably sell my Lenovo and keep the MacBook and the Pixelbook for now.

I don't have any issues with Windows 10, I have no issues with ChromeOS and I don't really have any issues with MacOS. I've had the Pro now (I had a 2016 when it was released and sold it) for 2 days and I've already got the dreaded beachball when opening a website...... YAWN!

Anyways, if Windows works better for someone then so be it. Get what works best for you and rock onward. As of right now I am diggin having MacOS back. The MacBook Pro? Meh, but I can't have one without the other.

My .02

Not worth replying to, running a Mac down to such low levels of free space will equally encounter issues outside of Facebook, as ever PEBCAK applies to all platforms...

Q-6

 

[wcroadie]

Yup @Queen6... The 2017 MacBook Pro I just purchased has umm.... well.... developed a KB issues on day 3... The [ esc ] key and the right side [ option ] key only register presses about 75% of the time.. The other 25% of the time they do nothing, nada, zilcho.

I am not a happy camper but since it's only 3 days old, the Q is do I want to exchange it and roll the dice on another or just buy a base Surface Book 2... I sold my Lenovo X1C last night so I am def looking at either exchanging it OR returning it and snarfing up the SB 2..

I am diggin having MacOS back after a year and a half of going without it but meh... The sticky keys are causing me concern. I'll have to kick the idea around and decide what I want to do.

You will regret going back to windows, trust me.

 

[raqball]

You will regret going back to windows, trust me.

Nah... had a loved the Lenovo X1C and only sold it to get the MacBook Pro.

Win 10 is stellar. No issues with it on my end. I do prefer MacOS but.....

Returned the defective MacBook to Apple and ordered the SB 2. Should have my grubby paws on it tomorrow since I paid for overnight shipping.

 

[Queen6]

Nah... had a loved the Lenovo X1C and only sold it to get the MacBook Pro.

Win 10 is stellar. No issues with it on my end. I do prefer MacOS but.....

Returned the defective MacBook to Apple and ordered the SB 2. Should have my grubby paws on it tomorrow since I paid for overnight shipping.

If more did this as opposed to fawning over anything Apple's produced the Mac wouldn't be the sorry state it is today. We would all benefit, those wanting thin & light, those needing performance solutions, not fashionable toys. There's a distinct difference which many are incapable of realising "Wolves & Sheep"...

Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

Nah... had a loved the Lenovo X1C and only sold it to get the MacBook Pro.

Win 10 is stellar. No issues with it on my end. I do prefer MacOS but.....

Returned the defective MacBook to Apple and ordered the SB 2. Should have my grubby paws on it tomorrow since I paid for overnight shipping.

Cool let us know on SB2 not seen one in Thailand but maybe in KL in a few weeks or UAE but not UK for price

 

[whg]

You will regret going back to windows, trust me.

Been there, done that. I have to use Windows for work, but I no longer use my Surface Pro 4. Now I have Windows installed on a BootCamp partition and access it through a Parallels VM. Whenever possible I work on the "Mac side", e.g. with MATLAB. Here I normally don't have to type in a password (having an Apple Watch). On the "Windows side" I have to log in (after Fn-Ctrl-Alt-Del) with my company account, from home I have to additionally use VPN and retype the (same) password again, confirm on my iPhone that it's me, and the company virus scanner has to be active, too.

It is really nice to change "sides" with a three finger swipe, and leave Windows when I can no longer stand it. And, by the way, VPN shuts me off from my home network (printer and server), therefore I use VPN only on the "Windows side", to keep the "Mac side" fully functional, a trick I learned from a colleague that also uses a Macbook Pro 15.

 

[eddjedi]

If more did this as opposed to fawning over anything Apple's produced the Mac wouldn't be the sorry state it is today. We would all benefit, those wanting thin & light, those needing performance solutions, not fashionable toys. There's a distinct difference which many are incapable of realising "Wolves & Sheep"...

Q-6

Your condescension is quite staggering, not to mention insulting. Time to block I think.

 

[MacDawg]

It is really nice to change "sides" with a three finger swipe, and leave Windows when I can no longer stand it. And, by the way, VPN shuts me off from my home network (printer and server), therefore I use VPN only on the "Windows side", to keep the "Mac side" fully functional, a trick I learned from a colleague that also uses a Macbook Pro 15.

I do the same! I run a Windows 10 and a Linux VM on a separate monitor and it acts like a different computer for me. I can set up VPN just for Windows and leave my Mac unencumbered with it. And the 3 finger swipe to switch the screen is priceless.

 

[wcroadie]

Been there, done that. I have to use Windows for work, but I no longer use my Surface Pro 4. Now I have Windows installed on a BootCamp partition and access it through a Parallels VM. Whenever possible I work on the "Mac side", e.g. with MATLAB. Here I normally don't have to type in a password (having an Apple Watch). On the "Windows side" I have to log in (after Fn-Ctrl-Alt-Del) with my company account, from home I have to additionally use VPN and retype the (same) password again, confirm on my iPhone that it's me, and the company virus scanner has to be active, too.

It is really nice to change "sides" with a three finger swipe, and leave Windows when I can no longer stand it. And, by the way, VPN shuts me off from my home network (printer and server), therefore I use VPN only on the "Windows side", to keep the "Mac side" fully functional, a trick I learned from a colleague that also uses a Macbook Pro 15.

Thankfully I no longer manage a 400+ server environment and don't vpn/rdp into a ton of networks/environments, but when I used to work for a very large data and disaster recovery company, I used to beg my boss to let me bring in my own MBP if I couldn't get a company provided one, the UX guys all used Macs. Now I am slowly converting the firm I work for over to Macs, when done for the day, I simply close the lid, go home, open and poof, everything I was working on is right where I left it. With windows, I would more often than not get the BSOD whenever I used hibernation or put the thing to sleep.

 

[skelmi]

I was balancing between the dell xps 15 and the new 15" MacBook Pro as well a few months back. Got the MacBook, which worked fine for awhile. After this high sierra update tho I'm thinking about returning this, or selling this and getting the xps instead. Sleep has been broken since 10.13.1 and every time this sleeps it crashes and reboots so it takes forever to get it back up. Wifi problems come and go between updates, on one version it's fixed and the next gets things broken again. Regularly freezes on login screen and requires a reset.. Battery lasts me a fev hours or so, gets me through school and lasts for a movie, is probably enough but could be better.
On the other hand build quality is nice, keyboard and the trackpad are awesome, love the Touch Bar.. but god do these software errors drive me crazy.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Been there, done that. I have to use Windows for work, but I no longer use my Surface Pro 4. Now I have Windows installed on a BootCamp partition and access it through a Parallels VM. Whenever possible I work on the "Mac side", e.g. with MATLAB. Here I normally don't have to type in a password (having an Apple Watch). On the "Windows side" I have to log in (after Fn-Ctrl-Alt-Del) with my company account, from home I have to additionally use VPN and retype the (same) password again, confirm on my iPhone that it's me, and the company virus scanner has to be active, too.

It is really nice to change "sides" with a three finger swipe, and leave Windows when I can no longer stand it. And, by the way, VPN shuts me off from my home network (printer and server), therefore I use VPN only on the "Windows side", to keep the "Mac side" fully functional, a trick I learned from a colleague that also uses a Macbook Pro 15.

Not sure what you are suggesting here other than your company has strict security measures and you prefer to logon with a watch where previously you had windows hello facial recognition

I presume your company only allows you to logon from Windows or can you from macOS and so you have an easier time logging on to your company ?

By comparison my company is even stricter we can't even use our own hardware and thier laptops are completely locked down

 

[whg]

Not sure what you are suggesting here other than your company has strict security measures and you prefer to logon with a watch where previously you had windows hello facial recognition

I presume your company only allows you to logon from Windows or can you from macOS and so you have an easier time logging on to your company ?

By comparison my company is even stricter we can't even use our own hardware and thier laptops are completely locked down

Knowing about other companies, I should probably not complain. Hello Windows could, unfortunately, not be used to logon with the Surface Pro 4, for whatever reason.

I think, logon from macOS is possible, but I didn't want them to tinker with my MacBook, and i needed Windows anyway for Visual Studio development.

 

[Silver2k]

I was in a similar dilemma. I quite liked the look/design/specs/price of the Dell XPS line and would have jumped on it if not for one thing and one thing only = Windows.

I just can't find myself being productive on Windows, the apps are clunky, the GUI looks confused/dumbed down, there's not many 'rich' apps on Windows not to mention no three finger drag which I use constantly on my mac.

MacOS has a richer UI, a vast swath of trackpad gestures (that work wonderfully on Apples Glass force-touch trackpad), a rich selection of top quality DESKTOP apps both on it's inbuilt app store and found online... many of which are exclusive to the mac (coda, fcpx, transmit, XCode and countless more).

At the end of the day it comes down to the software, which one you think will give you more value. And sadly the mac has that hunkered down. And that's why when it comes down to buying a new laptop I always pull the trigger on yet another overpriced mac.

 

[MacDawg]

I was in a similar dilemma. I quite liked the look/design/specs/price of the Dell XPS line and would have jumped on it if not for one thing and one thing only = Windows.

I just can't find myself being productive on Windows, the apps are clunky, the GUI looks confused/dumbed down, there's not many 'rich' apps on Windows not to mention no three finger drag which I use constantly on my mac.

MacOS has a richer UI, a vast swath of trackpad gestures (that work wonderfully on Apples Glass force-touch trackpad), a rich selection of top quality DESKTOP apps both on it's inbuilt app store and found online... many of which are exclusive to the mac (coda, fcpx, transmit, XCode and countless more).

At the end of the day it comes down to the software, which one you think will give you more value. And sadly the mac has that hunkered down. And that's why when it comes down to buying a new laptop I always pull the trigger on yet another overpriced mac.

As a long time Mac user (from back in the Mac SE days), this is certainly interesting to hear this take.
For years and years one the primary knocks on the Mac was the lack of software available. Obviously it is influenced by a person's individual needs, but software was usually the deal breaker and not the deal maker on choosing between Windows and Macs.

 

[maflynn]

I just can't find myself being productive on Windows, the apps are clunky, the GUI looks confused/dumbed down, there's not many 'rich' apps on Windows not to mention no three finger drag which I use constantly on my mac.

The one thing that I think Windows has over macOS is its richness. You can do so much more in windows, then you can with macOS. That complexity means a higher learning curve. I came across an article recently, that I've now forget where I read it were a long time mac user switched to windows and after adjusting to its pecularities (all os's have pecularties), he felt it was a better solution. Windows has a lot to offer, but its not perfect. Some things can be done better in macOS then Windows, but also vice versa.

YMMV, and people like macos better then windows, I get that. In fact for me, its the ecosystem, just yesterday I had a web-ex meeting that I dialed in on my cell phone and easily used the iMac as a speaker phone.

 

[wcroadie]

At the end of the day it comes down to the software, which one you think will give you more value. And sadly the mac has that hunkered down. And that's why when it comes down to buying a new laptop I always pull the trigger on yet another overpriced mac.

Depending on what you need to do with your mac, they may not be overpriced. I paid $1250 for a late 2011 MBP in 2012 and its still running beautifully today, my sister has bought 3-4 $500 windows PC's that get riddled with viruses and malware and cause her and her family endless amounts of frustration, they finally purchased 2 MBA's...

I have a new MBP for work that was $1149, that is a great value, IMO.

 

[Silver2k]

Depending on what you need to do with your mac, they may not be overpriced. I paid $1250 for a late 2011 MBP in 2012 and its still running beautifully today, my sister has bought 3-4 $500 windows PC's that get riddled with viruses and malware and cause her and her family endless amounts of frustration, they finally purchased 2 MBA's...

I have a new MBP for work that was $1149, that is a great value, IMO.

Fair enough, in many cases they are decent value... I was more or less complaining about the 15" spec'd out variant. I purchased a 2016 15" for about £3300 which is about $4600 and even it was sluggish at times. I felt so ripped off... not to mention all the keyboard issues I had with it, and issue with the USB-C ports becoming loose.

I now have a 2017 13" TB MBP which I picked up for just £1195 off ebay brand new! To buy it directly from Apple it would have cost me £1749! And I love it to pieces... but there's no doubt, they can be expensive machines.

 

[wcroadie]

Fair enough, in many cases they are decent value... I was more or less complaining about the 15" spec'd out variant. I purchased a 2016 15" for about £3300 which is about $4600 and even it was sluggish at times. I felt so ripped off... not to mention all the keyboard issues I had with it, and issue with the USB-C ports becoming loose.

I now have a 2017 13" TB MBP which I picked up for just £1195 off ebay brand new! To buy it directly from Apple it would have cost me £1749! And I love it to pieces... but there's no doubt, they can be expensive machines.

Yeah I would agree the spec'd out ones are definitely pricey. I love my 17 MBP, I travel all the time for work and it's lighter than the MBA I was using. The only downside is the USB-C dock I need to use, it's a pain.