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Who gets what Mac from Santa?

  • Kid gets MacBook Pro. Wife gets MacBook Air.

    Votes: 17 65.4%
  • Kid gets MacBook Air. Wife gets MacBook Pro.

    Votes: 8 30.8%
  • Neither. Ebenezer EugW hoards all the Macs!

    Votes: 1 3.8%

  • Total voters
    26

EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
My elementary school aged daughter is using my old 13" MacBook Pro 2009 Core 2 Duo 2.26 GHz (MacBookPro5,5). She uses it for school work, but it's relatively low impact, with Google Classroom, educational videos, and online educational games. She also has an iPad Air 2. Actually, the MBP 2009 is too slow for some of those games, so she's been using for iPad for that, but the screen on the iPad is cramped.

My wife is using an old 13" MacBook 2008 Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz (MacBook5,1). She uses it mainly as a kitchen machine for recipes, casual surfing, and email, etc. She also has an iPad 7 cellular 4G, with Smart Keyboard, but that's mainly used outside the house or for FaceTiming.

The pricing of used Broadwell Macs is pleasingly low these days, presumably not just because of their age but also because the M1 and M1 Pro/Max machines are out. So, for Xmas I bought two used machines to give as gifts to family members. I deliberately avoided butterfly keyboard models.

1) Mint condition 2015 Retina MacBook Pro 13"
2560x1600 Retina screen. Looks amazing at the 1280x800 setting, and looks very good at the 1440x900 setting.
2.7 GHz Core i5-5257U - Geekbench ~790/1750
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
8 GB RAM
128 GB SSD, which I then proceeded to upgrade to 256 GB (OEM Apple/Samsung).
Battery in great condition (Normal, ~30 cycles).
Force Touch trackpad

2) Mint condition 2017 MacBook Air 13"
1440x900 non-Retina screen. Looks OK at the 1440x900 setting and looks like crap at any other setting.
1.8 GHz Core i5-5350U - Geekbench ~735/1540
8 GB RAM
Intel HD Graphics 6000
128 GB SSD
Battery in good condition (Normal, ~460 cycles).
Mechanical trackpad <-- I didn't realize this. I just assumed all of this era would be Force Touch.

Advantages of the MBP include about 5-15% more speed, 256 GB SSD, new battery, and amazing Retina screen.
Advantages of the MBA include lighter weight and slimmer design. It's also a 2017 so I'm thinking it may get macOS updates longer.

Which would you give to whom? I'm thinking of giving the MBP to the kid. The Air is much sleeker, but she won't be carrying it around much at this time. The MBA just somehow seems more suited for a kitchen machine, which is where my wife uses the computer 90% of the time, and sometimes gets baking products on it. ? Both their computing needs right now are light, but I think my daughter's computing needs will grow over time. I don't think my wife's computing needs will change that much going forward.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
I haven't extensively tested this, but I'm now getting the impression that the Air may last a fair bit longer than the Pro under heavier usage, despite the fact the Pro has a new replacement Apple OEM battery.

This review below isn't an exact comparison of my situation, but it's very similar, testing the i5-5250U (not my i5-5350U) Air (15 W) against the i5-5257U Pro (28 W).


2015-MacBook-Pro-and-Air-3.001.png


2015-MacBook-Pro-and-Air-3.002.png


Ars Technica said:
The MacBook Air and Pro will last about the same amount of time in light usage, as you can see in our Wi-Fi Web browsing test. The Air posted better numbers than the Pro, but not by much.

But when you’re hitting the CPU and GPU constantly instead of letting them go into their low-power states, as our WebGL test does, the Air pulls way ahead. The MacBook Pro’s 27W processor’s extra performance and thermal headroom also let it chew through a battery faster, where the 15W processor in the Air is more reserved.

However, as mentioned, at this time neither my daughter nor my wife will be taking their laptops out of the house much.

The bonus with the Air too is that it's dead simple to replace the battery. The hard part is getting a decent OEM part if you're not going through Apple. From what I've read, nearly all (if not all) the third party batteries suck.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
butterfly keyboard should go to whoever does less typing
I specifically made a point not to get a butterfly keyboard. Neither the 2017 Air nor the 2015 Pro have butterfly.

When my younger kid is old enough to need a laptop, I might consider say a 2020 Core i3 Air, or even an Apple Silicon Air, depending upon pricing. That would be in say 2023-ish.

I've noticed that the Core i3 Airs are already dropping in price on the used market now, so in a couple of years they may be downright cheap. The standard storage is 256 GB, but I've seen some 128 edu models on eBay recently which further decreases the price. Unfortunately, unlike the Broadwell models, the storage cannot be upgraded.

I personally have a 2017 12" MacBook with butterfly, but I didn't want to give it to either my wife (kitchen use) or my kid (erasing shavings and eating at desk). Plus I personally prefer ultralights, so I'm keeping that one for myself. :)
 
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MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
When my younger kid is old enough to need a laptop, I might consider say a 2020 Core i3 Air, or even an Apple Silicon Air, depending upon pricing. That would be in say 2023-ish.
What if they want a Dell XPS or a Lenovo?
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
What if they want a Dell XPS or a Lenovo?
Then I'd consider it, but there is limited exposure for them to Windows machines, and zero interest so far. We're an all Apple household, and school uses mainly Chromebooks with I think a few Macs. And the kids don't like the Chromebooks.

Actually, originally I suggested to my daughter that I get a Chromebook for her because IMO Google applications run the most seamlessly on Chromebooks, but she said she'd rather use my 2009 MacBook Pro.

And in retrospect, I'd agree. The Chromebooks I looked at even in the US$300-350 range are not good. (US$325-360 was the price I ended up paying for the Macs - one locally and one off eBay including shipping, although I did spend a bit more to upgrade one of them to 256 GB.) The Chromebook trackpads are dramatically inferior, and in Canada, most of the budget Chromebooks are saddled with the annoying multi-language keyboards which often have shortened return and shift keys. Look at the return key on the right, and the shift key on the left. They've shoved an extra key in each of those spots. These keyboards are not good for those who don't type primarily in French.

teclatCANok.png


IMO the Windows machines in this price range for new machines also suck, and many of those also have those international keyboards, although I haven't looked at them in the used market. The benefit of Chromebooks is that you can get them new even cheaper, in the US$200 range or even less. They also suck of course, but they're dirt cheap.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
Well, that's surprising. I did not know this. The MacBook Air has a noticeably bigger footprint than the MacBook Pro:

MacBook Air 13" 2017
  • Height: 0.11–0.68 inch (0.3–1.7 cm)
  • Width: 12.8 inches (32.5 cm)
  • Depth: 8.94 inches (22.7 cm)
  • Weight: 2.96 pounds (1.35 kg)3
MacBook Pro 13" 2015
  • Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
  • Width: 12.35 inches (31.4 cm)
  • Depth: 8.62 inches (21.9 cm)
  • Weight: 3.48 pounds (1.58 kg)2

The Air is 1.1 cm wider and 0.8 cm deeper than the Pro. The Air occupies 737.8 cm2, and the Pro occupies 687.7 cm2, a difference of 7.3%. Those bezels...
 

J.Gallardo

macrumors 6502
Apr 4, 2017
448
157
Spain
I just voted: the Air for your wife; she can live with screen resolution for her use of a laptop.
Take care of your daughter vision; studying, working, she deserves a Retina screen.
(IMO)
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
The poll is split 5 to 5 after 10 votes. No consensus, as suspected.

I just voted: the Air for your wife; she can live with screen resolution for her use of a laptop.
Take care of your daughter vision; studying, working, she deserves a Retina screen.
(IMO)
Yeah, I'm heavily leaning that direction, since my wife wouldn't be using the laptop as much as my daughter would be, and as mentioned, my wife's usage likely won't grow over time. Furthermore, it seems like sacrilege to subject a pristine (relatively) modern MacBook Pro to baking products... ?
 

justashooter

macrumors 6502
Apr 8, 2020
335
194
If you haven't upgraded the hard drives to SSD's in your original MacBook Pro and MacBook you should do so. It is a pretty simple operation to install the new SSD's. There will be a considerable difference in speed and usability (it will be faster all around) with the upgrade and you then may rethink what to do with the new computers. Maybe leave the current kitchen computer in the kitchen, etc.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
If you haven't upgraded the hard drives to SSD's in your original MacBook Pro and MacBook you should do so. It is a pretty simple operation to install the new SSD's. There will be a considerable difference in speed and usability (it will be faster all around) with the upgrade and you then may rethink what to do with the new computers. Maybe leave the current kitchen computer in the kitchen, etc.
Thanks but both already have SSDs and 8 GB RAM. The problem is the CPU. It's just too slow. Surfing is a major pain, even with an ad blocker installed. Without the ad blocker it's totally unusable IMO. With the ad blocker, it's painful but usable. Also, some of my kid's online educational games are unplayable on her MBP5,5. Even some Google apps lag significantly. While she didn't complain much about the Google apps, one day she asked me to help her with her homework, and I noticed the lag immediately. It drove me nuts, and so I made the decision that very day to get her a new machine.

The other problem is the hacked OS. They only officially support up to El Capitan, but they're both currently on Catalina using dosdude's patch, and the behavior of some apps, esp. Chrome, is a little inconsistent. Once I give them the new 2015 & 2017 machines, I may back the 2008 & 2009 machines down to Mojave or even High Sierra. Chrome worked perfectly on High Sierra, and from what I gather, the hacked OS installs did better on Mojave than Catalina for some people. High Sierra looks the most Apple-like though, if you stick with HFS+ that is.

IMO El Capitan is a bare minimum, but has some showstopper problems with no true solutions, just workarounds. High Sierra actually works really well for a lot of stuff, although its HEIC and APFS support is arguably immature. (APFS is not a totally necessary, but we use HEIC for our iPhone photos.) Catalina is very good overall, but its behavior with a hacked installer on these old machine can be a little iffy at times. I haven't tried Mojave much, but I've heard it's decent.

In terms of performance, as mentioned, the 2015 i5 MBP gets around 790/1750 in Geekbench 5, and the 2017 i5 MBA gets around 735/1540. In contrast, the 2009 C2D MBP gets around 320/595. IOW, the 2015 MBP is almost 2.5X as fast as the 2009 MBP. It's a night vs. day experience. The 2009 is a real slog. The 2015 acts and feels like a modern machine. I had an idea how well the 2015 would feel, since I have a 2017 Core m3 MacBook which scores in the same ballpark, and I have no desire to upgrade it yet since the performance is decent for basic mainstream usage and business usage. The Kaby Lake Core m3 does much better than those Broadwell Macs for 4K video though, since Kaby Lake includes hardware HEVC acceleration.
 

justashooter

macrumors 6502
Apr 8, 2020
335
194
Another option is to make the old computers into a chromebook. Replace the OS X operating system with Neverware's Chrome OS.

 

EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
Another option is to make the old computers into a chromebook. Replace the OS X operating system with Neverware's Chrome OS.

Thanks, I've tried that too, along with Ubuntu Linux. Performance certainly was improved but I didn't like them very much. I much prefer High Sierra.
 

DMG35

Contributor
May 27, 2021
2,521
8,152
I think you're golden either way but I voted for the Air for your wife and Pro for your daughter. Great gifts for both either way.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
As of right now, it's 13:8 favouring give the kid the MBP. I agree, and have finalized the decision by purchasing lid covers to match. :) The MBP gets a lid cover colour that my daughter likes, and the MBA gets a lid design my wife will like. They also came with screen covers, keyboard covers, and bottom case covers, but I won't be using any of those.

Thanks for the reassurance, people. ;)

A couple of additional comments:

1. As mentioned, the MBP (and MBA) is mint. However, I think the MBP is mint because everything was replaced. The battery is almost new at 29 cycles, and I'm pretty sure the top case and keyboard were changed at the same time, because they look brand new. No wear or damage at all. As in zero. I'm told by others on this board that the normal procedure for an authorized Apple service centre is to replace all three at the same time when replacing the battery, because the battery is glued onto the top case. However, while the machine itself is mint, the charger is not. It is not frayed or anything, but it definitely shows wear, and one of the plastic clips (which you wrap the cable around) is broken. Not a big deal, but a small annoyance. I was pleased to learn though that Apple has official MagSafe 1 to MagSafe 2 adapters for all of $10 CAD. That means we can use our 2008 MacBook and 2009 MacBook Pro chargers as extra chargers for both the 2015 MBP and 2017 MBA. Excellent. I had totally forgotten about these adapters, and Apple actually still keeps these in stock in-store.

2. Somebody in another thread pointed out that not only do the 2015 and 2017 13" MacBook Airs share a design and chipset, they even share the model number MacBookAir7,2. Thus, some postulate that the 2015 will get macOS updates as long as the 2017 does. I've been monitoring 2015 MBA pricing and they're becoming extremely inexpensive. I recently just saw a mint condition 2015 13" MacBook Air with 8 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD go on eBay for under US$260 shipped. While the 2017 MBA is pretty cheap these days, I'd say that <$300 price point (if you're lucky) for the 2015 MBA qualifies as dirt cheap. This would be another good option for elementary school students at a somewhat lower price point, with only slightly lower performance, with the optimist in me thinking it may get macOS 13 just like its big brother the MBA 2017. At these sorts of low prices for the 2015 and 2017 (both of which support Monterey officially), the 2012-2014 models become a lot less attractive.
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 18, 2017
14,796
12,778
Wrapping the gifts now. :)

IMG_3725.jpeg


IMG_3726.jpeg


As you can see, the footprint of the 13" Air 2017 is significantly larger than the footprint of the 13" Pro 2015.
 
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