MP 6,1 Poll: Mac Mini Pro based on “trashcan”

[zephonic]

I’ve been toying with this idea since the reveal of the 7,1 (and its prohibitive price tag): Apple could repurpose the Mac Pro 6,1 “trashcan” chassis as a Mac Mini Pro. Basically a desktop-class CPU and dedicated GPU to differentiate it from the actual Mac Mini, and price it at ~$2K base, going up to $4-5k.

Anybody else think that would be a good idea? And what should go in it?

I just built an all-AMD gaming PC and it smokes any Mac short of the iMac Pro/Mac Pro, and it cost $1000 to build. Surely Apple could build something similar and sell it for $2k?
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With the reported move to their own CPU’s some of my thoughts are already outdated, but the idea was desktop i5/i7/i9 CPU’s with AMD 5500/5700 GPU’s.
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The third plane in the chassis (where the 2nd GPU used to sit) could be utilized as extra storage space, whether M2 or 2.5”

 

[glenthompson]

Interesting idea. Might be able to cut the height down some depending on thermal load of the processors. A good mix of connections is important but wouldn’t as much as the Mac Pro had.

 

[iAssimilated]

Or Apple could resurrect the old Mac Cube design. Sadly neither of these ideas will happen, but it sure would be nice!

 

[Flint Ironstag]

It’s dead, Jim.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Please don't call it 'trashcan,' but yes. Let's call it Mac Pro mini rather than Mac mini Pro since it would still be a Mac Pro after all. And of course ARM based. Release date ~2023.

 

[ipedro]

There’s no place for it in the lineup. The Mac Mini as it is can get quite powerful so much that stacking Mac Minis have been used to power super computers.

it also doesn’t solve any problem. The only major downside of the Mac Mini is that it has no card slots but the trash can Mac Pro doesn’t either.

My guess is that the new Mac Pro will gradually come down in price, specially when the ARM version is introduced.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

The mini has plenty of other downsides: thermal throttling under hard use, weak GPU options (eGPU is not a panacea), lower RAM ceiling (and not ECC), low core count, etc.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Or Apple could resurrect the old Mac Cube design. Sadly neither of these ideas will happen, but it sure would be nice!

It won't happen but...

The Mini could be pumped up, keeping the same footprint, but taller, similar to the Cube. All aluminum, simple and clean. No optical slot, but they could put the a glowing power button and SD slot on top.

• At least 2 RAM slots
• Two M2 slots
• A PCIe slot, or some sort of modular GPU
• They could even squeeze in two 2.5" SATA slots or trays
• Central vertical cooling similar to Cube/nMP.
• Most ports underneath, similar to Cube, for clean cable management, with a couple top or back for convenience

Apple could sell these like crazy. Start at $899, displacing the high-end Mini, letting Mini be entry-level again, like it started.

But they won't.

Let's not forget that AR and VR keep marching forward, and Apple will need to address GPUs at some point.

 

[zephonic]

There’s no place for it in the lineup. The Mac Mini as it is can get quite powerful so much that stacking Mac Minis have been used to power super computers.

it also doesn’t solve any problem. The only major downside of the Mac Mini is that it has no card slots but the trash can Mac Pro doesn’t either.

Disagree, the Mac Mini is nice, but it has mobile processors and no dedicated GPU. This is how a Mac Mini Pro would distinguish itself. No need for PCIe slots, there is the full-size Mac Pro for that. But extra storage slots on the third plane would go a long way to further differentiate the MMP from the MM.
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The mini has plenty of other downsides: thermal throttling under hard use, weak GPU options (eGPU is not a panacea), lower RAM ceiling (and not ECC), low core count, etc.

Exactly. The MMP would sit between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro, with desktop-class i5/i7/i9 (or Apple equivalent) and dGPU.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Disagree, the Mac Mini is nice, but it has mobile processors and no dedicated GPU. This is how a Mac Mini Pro would distinguish itself. No need for PCIe slots, there is the full-size Mac Pro for that. But extra storage slots on the third plane would go a long way to further differentiate the MMP from the MM.
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Exactly. The MMP would sit between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro, with desktop-class i5/i7/i9 (or Apple equivalent) and dGPU.

Intel has officially classed the B-series 8th generation chips as mobile, but they have the same core count, caches, and PCIe lane count as their matching non-B desktop counterparts. They even have the same TDP and TurboBoost clocks. See here: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?productIds=126686,134905

Difference is in packaging (solder BGA vs LGA) and TurboBoost ShortPowerMax, PowerMax, and PowerTimeWindow. If given adequate cooling, the B-series chips in the Mini will run within a few percent of the non-B counterparts.

The CPU's can absolutely support an x16 slot. The chipset could handle two m.2 slots. Apple needs their T2 chip, so you can forget the m.2 slots. I'm still waiting to see what the T2 does that can't be done in software. Feels like a solution in search of a problem.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I think there is definitely a place in Apple’s lineup for a small Mac Pro to fill the $3k-$5k void. The mini is basically a laptop without a screen and has no discrete graphics. It’s also a pain to open up and upgrade anything like the RAM. What’s nice about the 6,1 design is that you just lift the housing off and the RAM and flash storage are right there. It’s nice they extended that part of the design to the 7,1, but it’s more computer than a lot of people need. I like how the 6,1 fits neatly on my desk.

Also working in our favor is that when the 6,1 becomes vintage/obsolete those users will be looking to replace it with something. Apple will want to sell them something to fit their budget and needs so they can retain them as customers. So I think they will make something similar available.

 

[archimacpro]

I’ve been toying with this idea since the reveal of the 7,1 (and its prohibitive price tag): Apple could repurpose the Mac Pro 6,1 “trashcan” chassis as a Mac Mini Pro. Basically a desktop-class CPU and dedicated GPU to differentiate it from the actual Mac Mini, and price it at ~$2K base, going up to $4-5k.

Anybody else think that would be a good idea? And what should go in it?

I just built an all-AMD gaming PC and it smokes any Mac short of the iMac Pro/Mac Pro, and it cost $1000 to build. Surely Apple could build something similar and sell it for $2k?
[automerge]1592161789[/automerge]
With the reported move to their own CPU’s some of my thoughts are already outdated, but the idea was desktop i5/i7/i9 CPU’s with AMD 5500/5700 GPU’s.
[automerge]1592161886[/automerge]
The third plane in the chassis (where the 2nd GPU used to sit) could be utilized as extra storage space, whether M2 or 2.5”

I love my trashcan - it's small and v practical. I run 2 x 4k screens at work & home. Silent. Looks great. Load it up with a current AMD 3960 & Radeon 7 & we're away. I'll buy 5 straight off. Tomorrow.

 

[pierre1610]

They should definately do something between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro. Maybe call it oh i dunno, just a Mac.

1pcie for standard GPU
128GB ram
10-core intel, just with a fast single core.

I have a trashcan, a 2018 mac mini and the older 5,1 mac pro.
I mainly use photoshop at a high level so need lots of ram. I really like the size of the trashcan.

I've just ordered a NZXT H1 chassis for an AMD PC build, shame apple and nvidia can't bury the hatchet so i could make it a hackintosh.

 

[th0masp]

If they were still primarily a computer company they'd surely do something to fill that void. As it is I think you can expect to having to suck it up and choose another product line. And I'm not so sure sticking an i7/i9 in the cylinder case is such a great fit - these CPUs seem to run hotter than the Xeons it was originally designed for and the GPUs these days - oh boy. Size and power consumption have exploded. Unless you are talking latop parts but then that's the mini.

My trashcan replacement when due is going to be a hackintosh.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Size and power consumption have not exploded. The current Navi architecture is more efficient than its predecessors. The W5500 PC card is only 125 watts. The W5700 is 205 watts, and the very top end Radeon Pro VII is 250 watts. The FirePro W9000 was 274 watts and they were able to downclock that to achieve 108 watts for the 6,1. They could easily downclock a Navi or Vega 20 GPU to fit the 6,1's thermal design.

 

[tsialex]

Size and power consumption have not exploded. The current Navi architecture is more efficient than its predecessors. The W5500 PC card is only 125 watts. The W5700 is 205 watts, and the very top end Radeon Pro VII is 250 watts. The FirePro W9000 was 274 watts and they were able to downclock that to achieve 108 watts for the 6,1. They could easily downclock a Navi or Vega 20 GPU to fit the 6,1's thermal design.

It's not so simply as you think since TDP is not the maximum power consumption. Some AMD cards that have a TDP of 225W, Vega 56 for example, have power consumption peaks of 310W.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Yes, that's true. Vega has high power consumption spikes. I don't know if that holds true for the VII / Vega II. Probably. The RDNA cards would be a good fit I think power wise, but of course their compute performance is not good. Perhaps they will eventually make a CDNA based GPU for workstations.

 

[zephonic]

I was thinking the AMD 5500/5700(XT) power use is relatively low, surely the MP6,1's thermal design should be able to handle that alongside a typical i7/i9?

It would make an enticing little package for those that don't do 3D VFX for a living.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Why would it have i7/i9? Then it would be a consumer mini product so you should post this in the mini forum. Mac Pros have Xeon (and probably ARM later.)

 

[Xde]

I like the idea.
But the construction should be better for service. The MP6.1 is a nightmare.
The PowerSupply should be outside like the older MacMinis. For better service, for getting more space.
The Mezzanine-plug flex conections, while technically interesting, are a desaster for service.
The backup battery should be servicable without completely desarming the Mac.
Should have an air filter inside.
Use of lowPowerCPUs, if Arm is the future, fine, and other lowPower components, additional chip-heatsinks if necessary.
Standard PCIe SSD connector.
Some ideas for beginning.

 

[theluggage]

Apple could repurpose the Mac Pro 6,1 “trashcan” chassis as a Mac Mini Pro.

Not really, because the whole design concept was based on spreading the heat fairly evenly between one CPU and two GPU boards - arranged in a triangle around a shared 'chimney' - that was one major reason why it was a flop and they never found suitable chips to "upgrade" it.

Otherwise, circuit board layout is pretty rectilinear, so there's not a lot of point making computers round... Well, there was the Cray 1, but technology has moved on since then...

Given that Apple are clearly not going to make a mini with PCIe slots or expandable internal storage until hell freezes over, all they really need to do is make the Mini a bit bigger so that it can have a discrete GPU.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I like the idea.
But the construction should be better for service. The MP6.1 is a nightmare.
The PowerSupply should be outside like the older MacMinis. For better service, for getting more space.
The Mezzanine-plug flex conections, while technically interesting, are a desaster for service.
The backup battery should be servicable without completely desarming the Mac.
Should have an air filter inside.
Use of lowPowerCPUs, if Arm is the future, fine, and other lowPower components, additional chip-heatsinks if necessary.
Standard PCIe SSD connector.
Some ideas for beginning.

Do you mean service by the end-user or by Apple-certified technician? I think service should be able to be performed without incident using Apple’s special tools and instructions, but I agree service is not realistic by end-users with poor knowledge and lack of proper instructions. They seem to have really addressed that complaint by making the 7,1 easy to service by the end-user. It would be nice if they could also make a small Mac Pro that takes kindly to end-user servicing.

 

[minifridge1138]

When they first unveiled the trash can Mac Pro I thought it was a poor replacement for the cheese grater, but would have been an awesome Mac Mini on steroids. They should have called it the Mac Mini Pro and kept the cheese grater around with updates.