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Should they?

  • Yes

  • No


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Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
I'm a bit frustrated with Apple recently. I would LOVE to buy some new products, and was hoping to do so this Black Friday. I currently have a 2019 base model 15" MacBook Pro, and iPhone 11 Pro Max, and a 2017 MacBook 12".

I also use an LG Ultrafine 4K display which I bought from the Apple store, which I use via thunderbolt connection.

Now aside from the monitor, where are the REAL updates?

I am surprised that they did not even include the new M1 Chip in the 16" model MacBook Pro.

Right now, I'm in a position where if I upgraded my MacBook Pro 15" 2019 model to the 16" model it is unlikely I would notice a big difference, at least based on my use.

Even if I upgraded to the new iPhone 12 Pro Max, I'm not sure if I would really find it more amazing than my iPhone 11 Pro Max.

For my 12", what would be the upgrade? They discontinued it all together.

I just feel like there's got to be people like me who love Apple products, and are happy to upgrade but only if it makes sense.

Right now the most compelling upgrade would be the iPhone for me, because of the new selfie camera. I used to be a HUGE selfie person, but no so much lately. If that changes, I will probably upgrade. But I wish Apple had done more in terms of upgrades so I would have other reasons to upgrade.

The only interest product out right now is the PS5, which I can't find anywhere unfortunately.
 

obs

Suspended
Nov 10, 2020
11
8
no.
why should you update a technique that you certainly do not take full advantage of? just because they flood you with ads, tests, black fridays and other nonsense? or just because others do it? why don't you turn off the TV and similar sites for a while and do something nice and useful? or simply enjoy yourself, friends or what you already have? the next widget will not make you any happier ... nor more productive ... after it simply comes the question "now what useless nonsense to buy, just because it is available for purchase?"

(just askin. i don't need an answer. i know them)
 
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Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
no.
why should you update a technique that you certainly do not take full advantage of? just because they flood you with ads, tests, black fridays and other nonsense? or just because others do it? why don't you turn off the TV and similar sites for a while and do something nice and useful? or simply enjoy yourself, friends or what you already have? the next widget will not make you any happier ... nor more productive ... after it simply comes the question "now what useless nonsense to buy, just because it is available for purchase?"

(just askin. i don't need an answer. i know them)

You’re thinking WAY too deep about it. It’s a shiny new toy, not trying to achieve enlightenment through new Macs...

If apple upgraded more aggressive I would buy bc it’s fun buying new toys. That’s about all there is to it
 

Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
My point is, just in general, there is a dearth Of cool new products out in the market right now.

Apple should lead the way IMO.

Like I said the only cool new toy out seems to be the PS5
 

hammerstein83

macrumors newbie
Nov 29, 2020
2
0
What exactly is it you’re expecting? Sure their cpus are generally a generation or 2 behind, but aside from the core count leaps, the performance gained is marginal. They could perhaps do a little better in the graphics department, but it would come at the cost of the quiet and thin design.
If all you want is to buy new toys all the time, there’s tons of hobbies out there that are black holes for your money.. I recommend guitars or motorcycles 😁
 

ght56

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2020
812
768
The M1 computers that Apple has released represents one of the most significant updates in the computing industry in many years. That is pretty aggressive. We likely did not see a 16-inch M-powered MacBook Pro as the processes that led to the entry level M1 Macs were absolutely monumental tasks that ate up available resources and they are going to put a more powerful CPU/GPU in the flagship 16-inch.

As for the 16-inch, the 5600M GPU that was recently added to it is a pretty impressive accomplishment between Apple and AMD.
 

richinaus

macrumors 68000
Oct 26, 2014
1,932
1,644
The M1 computers that Apple has released represents one of the most significant updates in the computing industry in many years. That is pretty aggressive. We likely did not see a 16-inch M-powered MacBook Pro as the processes that led to the entry level M1 Macs were absolutely monumental tasks that ate up available resources and they are going to put a more powerful CPU/GPU in the flagship 16-inch.

As for the 16-inch, the 5600M GPU that was recently added to it is a pretty impressive accomplishment between Apple and AMD.
you are right— the 5600M is a big step up. Makes the mac experience smooth as butter.
Cant wait to see the M1 versions in the highest end models.
 
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Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
What exactly is it you’re expecting? Sure their cpus are generally a generation or 2 behind, but aside from the core count leaps, the performance gained is marginal. They could perhaps do a little better in the graphics department, but it would come at the cost of the quiet and thin design.
If all you want is to buy new toys all the time, there’s tons of hobbies out there that are black holes for your money.. I recommend guitars or motorcycles 😁

Specifically, I’m expecting Apple to produce more innovative products and upgrades more often, so I can buy them as I said before. If you’re asking me about features, the onus is on them to figure it out and produce- not the buyer. My job is just to bring the money to the store. Their job is to sell me the products.

Guitars and motorcycles aren’t really my thing. I like tech a lot though. Some people like cigarettes. It just varies from person to person...
 
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Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
The M1 computers that Apple has released represents one of the most significant updates in the computing industry in many years. That is pretty aggressive. We likely did not see a 16-inch M-powered MacBook Pro as the processes that led to the entry level M1 Macs were absolutely monumental tasks that ate up available resources and they are going to put a more powerful CPU/GPU in the flagship 16-inch.

As for the 16-inch, the 5600M GPU that was recently added to it is a pretty impressive accomplishment between Apple and AMD.

I don’t doubt the M1 is huge from a tech perspective, but your average consumer who likes tech but isn’t savvy about the details isn’t going to care.

From a layman perspective, it looks the same. Works about the same I’m assuming. So then...what’s the upgrade lol.

But yeah I do understand it’s a big deal otherwise I’m sure it’s very nice technology
 

Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
you are right— the 5600M is a big step up. Makes the mac experience smooth as butter.
Cant wait to see the M1 versions in the highest end models.

That’s what I’m saying. We need the M1 in the higher end models. But, I hope they do more than that as well in the next update.
 

DeltaMac

macrumors G4
Jul 30, 2003
11,540
3,395
Delaware
You asked in your OP - "Aside from the monitor, where are the REAL updates?"
Of course, Apple does not make LG displays, only sells them, and has little say in those (other than that your display, being only 4K, is woefully out-of-date :D , now that 8K is making an appearance.
So, are updates only REAL if you can have something physical to show off to others, such as a thinner bezel, or (shocking o_O ) a full-on touch screen on an Apple laptop.
Along with the huge variety of other "needs" that posters in multiple other threads on these fora have posted regarding Apple's supposed lack of tech innovation - I am curious about what you might mean by "I hope they do more than that ... in the next update."
What I want to know: What is an example of something that Apple might provide on a next year's update that will make you instantly ready to plunk down the cash for your new "toy"?
You apparently like "tech", but you want an update that is more than just tech (?)
What kind of non-tech update would you want to include in what is essentially a tech tool, sold for you to use as a tool?

So, what would "make you drool" enough on an update to add to your collection of "show-off" devices?
 

Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
You asked in your OP - "Aside from the monitor, where are the REAL updates?"
Of course, Apple does not make LG displays, only sells them, and has little say in those (other than that your display, being only 4K, is woefully out-of-date :D , now that 8K is making an appearance.
So, are updates only REAL if you can have something physical to show off to others, such as a thinner bezel, or (shocking o_O ) a full-on touch screen on an Apple laptop.
Along with the huge variety of other "needs" that posters in multiple other threads on these fora have posted regarding Apple's supposed lack of tech innovation - I am curious about what you might mean by "I hope they do more than that ... in the next update."
What I want to know: What is an example of something that Apple might provide on a next year's update that will make you instantly ready to plunk down the cash for your new "toy"?
You apparently like "tech", but you want an update that is more than just tech (?)
What kind of non-tech update would you want to include in what is essentially a tech tool, sold for you to use as a tool?

So, what would "make you drool" enough on an update to add to your collection of "show-off" devices?

Why are you asking me? You should be asking Apple why they aren't adding more features and innovating more often so consumers can have meaningful reasons to upgrade. It's their fault IMO for not impressing me enough to upgrade, and many other consumers who are just as frustrated as me.

I don't believe in showing off but if someone wants to do that that's fine with me. I just like new tech toys.
 

ght56

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2020
812
768
I don’t doubt the M1 is huge from a tech perspective, but your average consumer who likes tech but isn’t savvy about the details isn’t going to care.

From a layman perspective, it looks the same. Works about the same I’m assuming. So then...what’s the upgrade lol.

But yeah I do understand it’s a big deal otherwise I’m sure it’s very nice technology

The upgrade is in how it works and, specifically, how well it works.

The 13-inch M1 MacBook Pro and the 13-inch Intel MacBook Pro look identical, hold for a few different key markings IIRC. However, the M1 13-inch MacBook Pro is VASTLY faster and more efficient than the 13-inch Intel one. Everything you did before happens a lot faster now. A video export that you had to wait around for 7 minutes before might now only take 4 minutes. The upgrade there is time saved, and it can save a lot of time if you are exporting 10+ videos a day, for example. The battery life is, in some cases, double that of the Intel models. Someone who may have had to recharge half way through the day or carry a portable power bank no longer has to do that. Those are insanely major upgrades that I think even the average consumer who isn't necessarily savvy about technical details can benefit from greatly.

The 16-inch looks a lot like the 15-inch, and the 16-inch with the 5300M GPU looks identical to the 16-inch with the 5600M GPU. However, the 16-inch with the 5600M GPU uses the same technology that will help power supercomputers in the exascale era and is something uniquely offered by Apple that doesn't show up on many other consumer laptops (High Bandwidth Memory.) The end result is a big difference in performance, temperatures, and battery life, equating to gains in productivity. When I use a virtual machine that can extensively utilize the GPU for general processing tasks, the VM runs much better and it takes less time to do things.

I think we will likely see case redesigns for all of the Apple laptops in the near future, but it's arguably not practical to update a laptop's case design every year or so, especially if you have one that works well. The 16-inch's case design, for example, is new and works really well with a few minor annoyances, and corrects upon the major flaws of the 15-inch design.
 

DeltaMac

macrumors G4
Jul 30, 2003
11,540
3,395
Delaware
Why are you asking me? You should be asking Apple why they aren't adding more features and innovating more often so consumers can have meaningful reasons to upgrade. It's their fault IMO for not impressing me enough to upgrade, and many other consumers who are just as frustrated as me.

I don't believe in showing off but if someone wants to do that that's fine with me. I just like new tech toys.
Features are fine for me. The new AS Macs are an amazing upgrade, lower cost, typically higher performance.

You are the one who asked the question, without explaining what you actually want.
AFIAK, Apple can't read your mind.
It's not Apple's fault for not knowing what you want, unless you have offered your opinion directly to Apple. (You can do that, you know.)

What kind of feature upgrades WOULD impress you? What's that "thing" you want that Apple has not supplied

You did suggest that Apple is not innovating enough, at least for you. How does your opinion fly against the current changeover to Apple Silicon?
 

QCassidy352

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2003
11,784
5,439
Bay Area
Apple really doesn't expect people to upgrade every generation. Sure, some will for a variety of reasons, but basically, yeah, if you've got high-end products from 2019, this year's versions aren't likely to be super compelling. Pretty hard to make year-over-year updates must-haves (although the change to AS may do it for some).
 
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Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
2,225
USA
Apple really doesn't expect people to upgrade every generation. Sure, some will for a variety of reasons, but basically, yeah, if you've got high-end products from 2019, this year's versions aren't likely to be super compelling. Pretty hard to make year-over-year updates must-haves (although the change to AS may do it for some).

I agree with you on some points you made. It does seem like Apple doesn't expect people to upgrade often.

BUT

I disagree that it's hard. Apple is Apple. They're kind of like a king. They can do anything if they want to.

My guess is that the tech enthusiast who are willing to upgrade all the time is very niche, and it isn't worth it for them to make such leaps. But I do believe they can, if they wanted.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
15,495
14,870
Singapore
Why are you asking me? You should be asking Apple why they aren't adding more features and innovating more often so consumers can have meaningful reasons to upgrade. It's their fault IMO for not impressing me enough to upgrade, and many other consumers who are just as frustrated as me.

I don't believe in showing off but if someone wants to do that that's fine with me. I just like new tech toys.

It’s easy to do something differently. Just change the form factor of a laptop every year for the sake of changing and market it as something new.

It’s much harder to do something differently and better. In the eyes of Apple, perfect products are made by cutting out everything not absolutely required in the design. Apple products have never been about having the most features or being the most useful, but about being the purest mix of form and function.

So if a product like the MBA or MBP continues to sport the same form factor for numerous years in a row, it could simply be because its form factor is as close to perfect as it can be in Apple’s perspective. Meanwhile, Apple continues to make iterative improvements to their products, which is what their use base can get behind.

I would be more worried if a company was dramatically redesigning their product ever so often. This makes me wonder just how much thought went into designing Version 1.0.
 
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Hieveryone

macrumors 603
Original poster
Apr 11, 2014
5,464
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USA
It’s easy to do something differently. Just change the form factor of a laptop every year for the sake of changing and market it as something new.

It’s much harder to do something differently and better. In the eyes of Apple, perfect products are made by cutting out everything not absolutely required in the design. Apple products have never been about having the most features or being the most useful, but about being the purest mix of form and function.

So if a product like the MBA or MBP continues to sport the same form factor for numerous years in a row, it could simply be because its form factor is as close to perfect as it can be in Apple’s perspective. Meanwhile, Apple continues to make iterative improvements to their products, which is what their use base can get behind.

I would be more worried if a company was dramatically redesigning their product ever so often. This makes me wonder just how much thought went into designing Version 1.0.

Well, a simple start could be edge to edge screens. Think Dell.

You mean to tell me Apple doesn’t have the ability to make an edge to edge and that Dell is smarter?

I think not. The question is, why won’t Apple do it???

I would be the first one to order a new MacBook Pro AND 12” MacBook if they re introduce it if they made upgrades like that.

I’m here for it, baby! Haha :)
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
15,495
14,870
Singapore
Well, a simple start could be edge to edge screens. Think Dell.

You mean to tell me Apple doesn’t have the ability to make an edge to edge and that Dell is smarter?

I think not. The question is, why won’t Apple do it???

I would be the first one to order a new MacBook Pro AND 12” MacBook if they re introduce it if they made upgrades like that.

I’m here for it, baby! Haha :)

The way I see it, there is too much focus on specs and not enough emphasis on the user experience. There is too much of comparing raw specs in a vacuum, and not enough of “how does one use this product to get more out of technology”.

Try approaching these topic from Apple’s perspective. I choose to begin with Apple, and then I look outwards at different industries. Other people tend to first cover an industry, then they attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.

As such, I feel that the best way of covering Apple is to begin with Apple. You have to focus with Apple, and then you move outwards. You start with Apple, and then you analyse the industry that Apple operates in. Instead, what I see a lot of people still do today is that they just treat Apple as any other company. But Apple does a lot of things differently, and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path.

Rather than trying to explain Apple away, try explaining Apple instead.

That’s the guiding principle with which I evaluate whatever Apple does, and I will say that it has worked in my favour more often than not.
 

DeltaMac

macrumors G4
Jul 30, 2003
11,540
3,395
Delaware
The question SHOULD be: Should Apple do edge-to-edge screens?
Is the reason to keep up with the other companies, and that's the only reason?
That's not how Apple works.
Just because you CAN add some random feature, does not mean that you SHOULD do that. There may be technical reasons for slow adoption of edge-to-edge screens. One (which Apple advocates) is longer than average use of their systems.
Perhaps that neat-looking narrow bezel (edge-to-edge screen) leaves the screen somewhat less sturdy than Apple will accept for long term use, leaving Apple unwilling to begin selling a laptop that starts out with a shorter service life than is acceptable for a company such as Apple. The feature has to be right, not just following some other company.
Apple doesn't always succeed with that, of course. Several re-designs of the keyboard on laptops is a noteable mis-step, I think. Someone who follows Dell can probably also come up with several poor engineering choices by the company from Round Rock, too.
 
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rdubmu

macrumors member
Apr 17, 2012
64
26
Can I ask how old are you are?

You have a 2019 16’’, why do you need to upgrade? That computer should last you a few years.
 
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