Poll: Would You Appeal an Gamer Mac based on nMP?

[koyoot]

And play what exactly? Like I said, almost none of the big titles are on OS X. The ones I play the most—Project Cars, Mass Effect, Fallout 4 and GTA V—are all Windows-only.

Heroes of the Storm, Starcraft 2, World of Warcraft, League of Legends.

 

[jblagden]

The opposite: they can actually use multiple cores more efficiently. All current GPU drivers are essentially single-threaded because of the limitations of OpenGL/DX11. If you look at something which really abuses the render queue, like X-Plane, you will see the all the rendering is done in a single thread because the overhead in syncing multiple render threads from multiple cores gets very messy very quickly. Additionally, Vulkan/Metal/DX12 allows you to do things like bake in GPU state changes so the CPU has to do zero work creating the next render state which will safe an enormous amount of overhead.



And play what exactly? Like I said, almost none of the big titles are on OS X. The ones I play the most—Project Cars, Mass Effect, Fallout 4 and GTA V—are all Windows-only.

1. Blizzard games - Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo
2. Minecraft
3. Galaxy on Fire 2
4. Bioshock
5. DOTA 2


According to Steam, Portal 1 & 2{original and Lost Coast}, Counter-Strike, Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, Grand Theft Auto (series?), Half-Life [1, 2, Deathmatch, Blue Shift, Source, Episode 1], Call of Duty 2, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2& 3, Borderlands 2, Dirt 3, Civilization IV, Batman Arkham Asylum, The Witcher 2, Metro [2033 Redux, Last Night Redux], Assassin’s Creed Brotherhood, Duke Nukem 3D Megatron Edition, Duke Nukem Forever, Trine 2, Grid 2, Deus Ex,. I don’t play any of those games, but I’m pretty sure most, if not all, of them are AAA titles. I pretty much just play StarCraft II, Minecraft and Galaxy on Fire 2.

Also, a number of Windows-only games can be played in OS X using WINE: https://appdb.winehq.org

 

[poematik13]

This is true, but the 5K iMac has 3 weak points:
1. 5K screen likely impedes frame rate in games
2. CPU and GPU cannot be upgraded or replaced in the event of failure/overheating; the problem with mobile CPUs and GPUs is that they can’t be replaced or upgraded
3. PCIe expansion cards can’t be added without an external Thunderbolt enclosure like the Akitio Thunder2

1) You can always run at a lower resolution like 2.5k or 1080p. Both of those still look great.
2) This is true, the iMac's recently have been infamous for throttling easily. But it is still a capable machine that can play AAA games at high settings under Bootcamp.
3) TB2 enclosures are reasonably priced, easy to obtain/set up, and aren't a big deal. I know many that use them for video-out cards from Blackmagic and RED, etc. You can also use it to setup eGPU's along with an external PS, but that setup gets bulky fast and at that point might as well just build a PC for the same price.

 

[merlinmage]

That people even want to game on OSX is so depressing - you have worse performance than on Windows and a lot of features are just missing. Not even speaking of the 20% library of games.

Edit: typo

 

[lowendlinux]

But if you don't game on OS X games don't get made or ported to OS X. Some things are not about ultimate performance

 

[merlinmage]

Well, as an avid gamer, performance is king. And I would never go back from my SLI 980Ti playing at 2560x1400@hz with G-Sync enabled. And these are only a couple of things you simply cannot do on a Mac. Which is not really a problem, because it was never meant to be a gaming OS, instead being more focused on creational stuff.

 

[lowendlinux]

That's you not everyone, like I said if no one games on OS X they don't get titles.

 

[jblagden]

1) You can always run at a lower resolution like 2.5k or 1080p. Both of those still look great.
2) This is true, the iMac's recently have been infamous for throttling easily. But it is still a capable machine that can play AAA games at high settings under Bootcamp.
3) TB2 enclosures are reasonably priced, easy to obtain/set up, and aren't a big deal. I know many that use them for video-out cards from Blackmagic and RED, etc. You can also use it to setup eGPU's along with an external PS, but that setup gets bulky fast and at that point might as well just build a PC for the same price.

1. That’s true.
2. Yeah, the iMac just doesn’t have sufficient cooling for gaming.
3. Yeah, I have one. I have a Akitio Thunder2 and a GT 740 inside it. It’s pretty good. It lets me play Starcraft with High graphics settings, though I have noticed that the CPU temperature stays around 90 degrees after I close StarCraft, until I shut down, unplug the eGPU, and turn my MacBook back on. I’ve also noticed that ever since I installed the eGPU, the Spaces revert to the default OS X 10.11 background, though that seems to have been mostly fixed by the latest CUDA update.

 

[dpny]

though I have noticed that the CPU temperature stays around 90 degrees after I close StarCraft

That's 10°C away from the i7's thermal limit. That CPU temp would make me very nervous.

 

[jblagden]

That's 10°C away from the i7's thermal limit. That CPU temp would make me very nervous.

Yeah, that’s why I usually reboot and unplug the eGPU after playing StarCraft. Though, I’m thinking about getting a laptop cooling pad to help lower the temperature.

 

[h9826790]

That's 10°C away from the i7's thermal limit. That CPU temp would make me very nervous.

If still 10C away from the CPU thermal limit, I won't worry about the CPU itself. However, 90C sounds not good for the electronics around the CPU, that's what I will worry about.

 

[dpny]

If still 10C away from the CPU thermal limit, I won't worry about the CPU itself. However, 90C sounds not good for the electronics around the CPU, that's what I will worry about.

Doesn't Intel recommend keeping CPU temps below 80°C?

 

[h9826790]

Doesn't Intel recommend keeping CPU temps below 80°C?

For all CPU regardless of thier limit, architecture, etc?

If yes, then I am quite sure it's nothing related to the CPU itself, but for the electronics around.

Just like the speed limit on the road is nothing related to the car's performance, but the people's safety around the road.

 

[jblagden]

PC gaming is itself a niche when you consider mobile and console games. Many more people own a console or smartphone than those that have built a $1000 gaming PC.

A big problem is that games are mostly for windows. Who would buy a gaming mac that cost twice as much as a PC and then you had to pay for windows and install it. Why would Apple make that machine? If Apple wanted to take games seriously, it would start by adding more support for games on its existing hardware and then maybe branch out into dedicated hardware.

We’re not talking about a desktop that Windows guys would be interested in. We don’t care about that. No matter what, Windows guys will always complain about Apple’s prices. We’re talking about an upgradeable desktop for Mac users; for people who are already in the Mac ecosystem.

 

[Stacc]

We’re not talking about a desktop that Windows guys would be interested in. We don’t care about that. No matter what, Windows guys will always complain about Apple’s prices. We’re talking about an upgradeable desktop for Mac users; for people who are already in the Mac ecosystem.

I don't disagree but Apple tries to compete in cases where it feels its system integration has the most benefit. See the iMac and laptop lines. Apple hasn't tried to compete against commodity hardware in a long time on the consumer side and given the new mac pro design they also have no interest in doing in for workstations either. Creating a box with slots takes the machine's design out of Apple's hands and pushes them to the standard components that results in a generic box with slots, which Apple has no interest in producing. This is in addition to the all the extra hardware and drivers Apple would need to support.

Apple sells their systems based on their design and integration, not benchmark scores. It would be tough for them to compete against cheap windows gaming boxes. If you fall into the category of gamer who also wants OS X Apple would rather sell you on a high end iMac or mac pro than making a powerful headless consumer mac. These systems are decent to good for gaming, you just have to pay extra for it.

 

[dpny]

We’re not talking about a desktop that Windows guys would be interested in. We don’t care about that. No matter what, Windows guys will always complain about Apple’s prices. We’re talking about an upgradeable desktop for Mac users; for people who are already in the Mac ecosystem.

In addition to what Stacc said above, there's no way Apple would make a profit off a box aimed directly at gamers. The gaming hardware market is too small to justify the investment. And while such a machine would obviously be bought by people other than gamers, considering that something like 80% of Apple's sales are laptops, there probably isn't money in it outside of the gamer market.

 

[blut haus]

All we are aware on Apple historical lack of interest on Gamer market, the only hope is on the general pc sales decline would push on Apple to consider new formulae or products to increase pc sales volume.

Not necessarily true. When the B&W G3's came out they had pretty awesome video cards in them, and even had id do some demos. The G3 period in general was pretty good for Mac gaming.

 

[koyoot]

Guys, you forgot what is starting to be rumored around: Apple is working on VR equipment. They will need to have low-level API and hardware capable of handling that.

 

[Stacc]

Guys, you forgot what is starting to be rumored around: Apple is working on VR equipment. They will need to have low-level API and hardware capable of handling that.

Maybe. Just because they are working on it doesn't mean it will ever see the light of day. Apple is rarely at the cutting edge of any given technology. I am sure they will let Oculus/Facebook and Valve push the technology forward and then if it looks like it will catch on for mainstream use then they may release something. Also keep in mind whatever VR technology Apple comes out with will likely be focused on mobile.

 

[wubsylol]

Apple need to update their OpenGL implementation first and foremost.
You could have the beefiest system on the planet and it will still be limited to OGL 4.1.
Metal is an API targeting mobile GPUs which has been ported to the desktop. It does not, at this stage, include important functions such as tessellation, meaning titles using those functions need complicated and time consuming work-arounds (like Feral's Shadow of Mordor port). This is not a solution.

Not including 2yr old display drivers would also do wonders.

A lot more things need to happen before Mac gaming can really be taken seriously.

 

[jblagden]

In addition to what Stacc said above, there's no way Apple would make a profit off a box aimed directly at gamers. The gaming hardware market is too small to justify the investment. And while such a machine would obviously be bought by people other than gamers, considering that something like 80% of Apple's sales are laptops, there probably isn't money in it outside of the gamer market.

It doesn’t necessarily have to be aimed at gamers. It could be aimed at video professionals and simply have CTO options for the CPU and GPU. Or it could be aimed at anybody who could benefit from expansion and desktop-level CPUs and GPUs. And anybody who doesn’t need a 12-core CPU. I could see having a quad-core CPU, but not a 12-core. The Mac Pro has always been aimed at professionals. But the iMac and Mac Mini have always used laptop components and with little upgradability.

 

[MacVidCards]

Apple need to update their OpenGL implementation first and foremost.
You could have the beefiest system on the planet and it will still be limited to OGL 4.1.
Metal is an API targeting mobile GPUs which has been ported to the desktop. It does not, at this stage, include important functions such as tessellation, meaning titles using those functions need complicated and time consuming work-arounds (like Feral's Shadow of Mordor port). This is not a solution.

Not including 2yr old display drivers would also do wonders.

A lot more things need to happen before Mac gaming can really be taken seriously.

I agree with you but with everything they do going in the opposite direction, I'd say we can count on ever-better iWatch Bands and further sliding in relation to Windows in the gaming, or even just general graphics performance realm.

And to the OP, may I suggest that you consider revising the thread title?

It doesn't actually make sense in English and would likely attract more votes if it did.

"Would You Appeal an Gamer Mac based on nMP?"

"Would a gaming system based on the nMP appeal to you?" is what I imagine that you were trying to ask.

I am not trying to insult or change the meaning, I seriously believe that is what you are asking.

And the Poll Question itself was likely meant to be:

"Would you buy a gaming focused Mac based on the nMP form factor?

Currently :
Will you buy an Gamer Focused Mac based on the new Mac Pro Form Factor"

 

[pat500000]

That people even want to game on OSX is so depressing - you have worse performance than on Windows and a lot of features are just missing. Not even speaking of the 20% library of games.

Edit: typo

I don't know why you say it's depressing when there are some good games out for osx. Although, MP wasn't made for mac gaming....it still runs fine. The last game that I got was called, "Soma." It's a pretty intense requirement game..and yet it runs fine for me. Emulators work great on mac Yeah...windows have more titles..still there are good games for mac osx.

 

[Draeconis]

I know people that loves the new Mac Pro so they purchased it for gaming (and went disappointed since Xeon are not good on gaming as i7/i5.

What? I'm not sure you understand what Xeons are.

 

[merlinmage]

I don't know why you say it's depressing when there are some good games out for osx. Although, MP wasn't made for mac gaming....it still runs fine. The last game that I got was called, "Soma." It's a pretty intense requirement game..and yet it runs fine for me. Emulators work great on mac Yeah...windows have more titles..still there are good games for mac osx.

You see, Soma for me is a game which barely tackles my hardware. Im talking about serious gaming with 144 hz displays, GSync or FreeSync in 2560x1440 or 3840x2160. Nothing a Mac could offer. OSX is not a good option for gaming at all.