Popular Email Client Spark Gets Major Redesign For Mac, Moves to Subscription Model

[doobydoooby]

...And as I noted here, I'm not seeing any way to do this as you or Spark says it can be done. I've also since then deleted the app from my iPhone & iPad. Does that mean that I'd still be able to take advantage of this as being an "Existing" Spark user?

I know no more than you, but I would imagine so because your apple id has a record of every transaction through the app store along with the purchase date. Their rep said in one of the thread entries above that they made an error and that a fix will be coming soon, so let's assume (for now!) that that's the case....you aren't alone in that the ios versions put that tagline at the signature bottom: everyone whose app has updated has that problem so they need to fix it quickly or we will all complain to apple and delete the app! But the terms & conditions are on our side so I have little doubt it will be fixed. Luckily the mac app store version hasn't been updated yet, so there's no problem on the mac. Yet

 

[doobydoooby]

Despite all your crying you can still use Spark 2.0 as you were doing before v3.0 launched so nothing has changed for you if you are not happy with version 3.

Is that correct? If so, how would you do that? ...I can't see a way on ios to go back to version 2 now that my phone and iPad have updated the app to version 3

 

[Steve121178]

Is that correct? If so, how would you do that? ...I can't see a way on ios to go back to version 2 now that my phone and iPad have updated the app to version 3

Sorry, we are talking about the macOS version.

However, I have noticed very little difference on iOS/iPadOS. Even if you are not taking up the option to subscribe you shouldn't be missing anything.

 

[gank41]

I know no more than you, but I would imagine so because your apple id has a record of every transaction through the app store along with the purchase date. Their rep said in one of the thread entries above that they made an error and that a fix will be coming soon, so let's assume (for now!) that that's the case....you aren't alone in that the ios versions put that tagline at the signature bottom: everyone whose app has updated has that problem so they need to fix it quickly or we will all complain to apple and delete the app! But the terms & conditions are on our side so I have little doubt it will be fixed. Luckily the mac app store version hasn't been updated yet, so there's no problem on the mac. Yet

They may say they have made an "error", but if you need to reinstall iOS or iPadOS for whatever reason, you're no longer "grandfathered in". For me, what I'm seeing, is that it's behaving as if I'm a new user again after reinstalling Spark on my iPhone. It's running me thru their new setup "experience" as if I've never used the app before. So, if this is also not supposed to happen, that's very telling of how buggy their app is.

I think at this point, after all of the complaining about forcing you to use their signature and locking that behind a $60 a year paywall, and then not-so-quickly back peddling and saying it's a "bug" is totally ridiculous. So even then, lets go along with that- 3 days go by where a "bug" tries getting you to pay $60 a year? Seems more like shady business practices than bad software development. So they're blaming this on their software team, making mistakes? And then a pretty large mistake like charging people $60 a year makes it thru QA? That's even MORE telling about their company. I wonder how much money they've made over the last few days over this "bug"...

And when you say "the terms & conditions are on our side", the "terms" on their pricing page haven't changed. Still says these things are locked out behind a paywall. As for the macOS version, earlier in this post's pages of comments, someone mentioned that Spark v3 wasn't available on the Mac App Store yet, only on their site. So I downloaded that and installed over the Mac App Store version, and now I'm screwed. It still "works" on my iPad, and yeah I'm able to delete their text out from each and every single email I create.. But at this point even THAT instance of Spark isn't showing all of the contents of each of my mail folders. I can go to WebMail or just another Mail Client, any Mail Client, really. All have been accurate accept Spark.

Again, I've moved on, and when companies start hiding shady business practices behind "mistakes" and "bugs", is it really that or is it just them placating us long enough to try and make more money off unsuspecting users, or even worse, large scale companies where they rake in even more money?

 

[Steve121178]

They may say they have made an "error", but if you need to reinstall iOS or iPadOS for whatever reason, you're no longer "grandfathered in". For me, what I'm seeing, is that it's behaving as if I'm a new user again after reinstalling Spark on my iPhone. It's running me thru their new setup "experience" as if I've never used the app before. So, if this is also not supposed to happen, that's very telling of how buggy their app is.

I think at this point, after all of the complaining about forcing you to use their signature and locking that behind a $60 a year paywall, and then not-so-quickly back peddling and saying it's a "bug" is totally ridiculous. So even then, lets go along with that- 3 days go by where a "bug" tries getting you to pay $60 a year? Seems more like shady business practices than bad software development. So they're blaming this on their software team, making mistakes? And then a pretty large mistake like charging people $60 a year makes it thru QA? That's even MORE telling about their company. I wonder how much money they've made over the last few days over this "bug"...

And when you say "the terms & conditions are on our side", the "terms" on their pricing page haven't changed. Still says these things are locked out behind a paywall. As for the macOS version, earlier in this post's pages of comments, someone mentioned that Spark v3 wasn't available on the Mac App Store yet, only on their site. So I downloaded that and installed over the Mac App Store version, and now I'm screwed. It still "works" on my iPad, and yeah I'm able to delete their text out from each and every single email I create.. But at this point even THAT instance of Spark isn't showing all of the contents of each of my mail folders. I can go to WebMail or just another Mail Client, any Mail Client, really. All have been accurate accept Spark.

Again, I've moved on, and when companies start hiding shady business practices behind "mistakes" and "bugs", is it really that or is it just them placating us long enough to try and make more money off unsuspecting users, or even worse, large scale companies where they rake in even more money?

What have they done that is shady? Existing users carry on with version 3 "as-is" with any perks they had before, along with a 7 day trial and a lifetime discount offer if you choose to go premium (30% off?).

You delete your Spark apps and data in a huff then have the nerve to blame Spark?

Just for some balance, Spark is working just as well for me as its always done. Note, I didn't throw a strop and delete my Spark apps & data during this timeframe and behave like a big baby.

 

[gank41]

Note, I didn't throw a strop and delete my Spark apps & data during this timeframe and behave like a big baby.

Awesome, it's always telling when a company or person or "thing" makes an unpopular move, and then the backlash to said "thing" is followed up by Name Calling. I'm honestly surprised it took this long to get there, but thanks for bringing your personality out for all to see...

As for the deleting my data part, when did I ever say I deleted all of my data? If all of this stuff is still supposed to be "free", if I reinstall just the app on my iPhone, shouldn't it not then behave as you say? Well? Go ahead and try it and let me know how that goes.

Note, I followed up to a post by a team member of their company with facts about my experience, never once resorting to name calling or verbal abuse of any kind. In fact, I thanked them and said I was moving on... Where do you get off inserting yourself like this just to name call? Ahhhh "the internet" never seems to fail me.

 

[Steve121178]

Awesome, it's always telling when a company or person or "thing" makes an unpopular move, and then the backlash to said "thing" is followed up by Name Calling. I'm honestly surprised it took this long to get there, but thanks for bringing your personality out for all to see...

As for the deleting my data part, when did I ever say I deleted all of my data? If all of this stuff is still supposed to be "free", if I reinstall just the app on my iPhone, shouldn't it not then behave as you say? Well? Go ahead and try it and let me know how that goes.

Note, I followed up to a post by a team member of their company with facts about my experience, never once resorting to name calling or verbal abuse of any kind. In fact, I thanked them and said I was moving on... Where do you get off inserting yourself like this just to name call? Ahhhh "the internet" never seems to fail me.

You keep calling them shady, when they are not. They were quite upfront with what they were doing.

Clearly reinstalling from scratch doesn't work at this time. Just open a support request with them and I am sure it will get sorted. But you've moved on so no need to right?

 

[gank41]

You keep calling them shady, when they are not. They were quite upfront with what they were doing.

Clearly reinstalling from scratch doesn't work at this time. Just open a support request with them and I am sure it will get sorted. But you've moved on so no need to right?

They were initially up front with saying their 'Sent with Spark' message was locked in behind a paywall (yes, you can manually delete the text on an email by email basis), a paywall that costs $60 a year. At no point on any of Spark's website does it say anything about there being a difference between the MAS Version as opposed to the standalone version- "existing users will have the same existing features". Nope! Also not true!

So, here we are 3 days or so later after their v3 launch, and their Web Site still hasn't been updated to reflect this "bug" that they're blaming on their Software Devs, a bug that could be making them $60 per user. The fact that you resorted to name calling doesn't then surprise me that you don't seem to understand how shady this business practice is.

 

[doobydoooby]

And when you say "the terms & conditions are on our side", the "terms" on their pricing page haven't changed. Still says these things are locked out behind a paywall.

I'm referring to the T&Cs of any software provider who contracts with apple to sell their software through the apple ecosystem. By being part of that ecosystem, you can't sell an app with a certain set of capabilities and later remove those capabilities, it would be a breach of contract. So in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, for now I'm happy to assume for a few days that they made an honest mistake. There's lots of precedent of this having happened before and it got solved, eg Notability had an oops moment for a day or two but then fixed things when they went to a different pricing model. Moreover, you never actually paid for Spark in the first place... it was a free app.

Spark/Readdle has excellent and highly responsive customer service (my personal experience whenever I have asked them anything) and this is the first time that something untoward has happened in years of service, so I find it hard to get quite *that* annoyed if they hiccup once in a while

 

[Steve121178]

They were initially up front with saying their 'Sent with Spark' message was locked in behind a paywall (yes, you can manually delete the text on an email by email basis), a paywall that costs $60 a year. At no point on any of Spark's website does it say anything about there being a difference between the MAS Version as opposed to the standalone version- "existing users will have the same existing features". Nope! Also not true!

So, here we are 3 days or so later after their v3 launch, and their Web Site still hasn't been updated to reflect this "bug" that they're blaming on their Software Devs, a bug that could be making them $60 per user. The fact that you resorted to name calling doesn't then surprise me that you don't seem to understand how shady this business practice is.

It's not shady. One of their Reps have been in this very thread clearing up things.

Anyway, didn't you move on?

 

[gank41]

Moreover, you never actually paid for Spark in the first place... it was a free app.

Correct, It's been a free app, just like a number of other free apps. But their claim isn't accurate.
Per their own web page:
** Existing Spark users: all free features you had remain free for you

That's not been mine, or some other's experience here...

It's not shady. One of their Reps have been in this very thread clearing up things.

Anyway, didn't you move on?

Again, not just name calling, but pushing me to just leave the argument. Also very telling. Are you sure you don't work for Readdle?
And no, their rep didn't "clear things up". What they did was introduce the confusion as to what is really going on, let alone what to expect, from their app let alone their company.

 

[Steve121178]

Again, not just name calling, but pushing me to just leave the argument. Also very telling. Are you sure you don't work for Readdle?
And no, their rep didn't "clear things up". What they did was introduce the confusion as to what is really going on, let alone what to expect, from their app let alone their company.

I'm not pushing you to leave the argument. I didn't even realise we were arguing. I was just telling you that were were wrong.

I think you need to stop getting upset over something you moved on from but want to keep talking about.

 

[gank41]

I'm not pushing you to leave the argument. I didn't even realise we were arguing. I was just telling you that were were wrong.

I think you need to stop getting upset over something you moved on from but want to keep talking about.

This post is borderline gaslighting.

 

[GIZBUG]

This post is borderline gaslighting.

What app did you move to since Spark has gone down the drain with all this mess….. ?

 

[gank41]

What app did you move to since Spark has gone down the drain with all this mess….. ?

I was hesitant initially to try Edison Mail again due to what's been reported in the past about how they handle your data. But they've come a long way since 3-4 years ago..

I've switched back to Apple's Mail app, though. Back when iOS 13 came out, Apple's Mail app went thru a number of aesthetic changes that introduced some bugs. Seems that the accurate Red Badge number and folder message count issues I had then are all resolved.

 

[mfm77]

You have to understand that they can't give full personalised responses to everyone. A canned reply is more than enough if it answers a question or helps.

You’re right in that they can’t give a totally personalized message to each person. They don’t have that kind of staff. I guess my biggest gripe is that when I’ve reported the same bugs (badge count, especially) over the years, I get the exact same response, the exact same steps to take, and the exact same non-solution to my problem, other than a “We’re aware of it and are working on a fix.” After awhile, it feels like they just stopped listening.

 

[pdoherty]

We don't fundamentally disagree. Personally I hate subscription models and prefer to pay upfront for a specific version and then again, if it suits me, for the next version.

I think the fundamental problem for app developers is that very few people will probably agree that $50-60 is reasonable for a standalone email app. I'm not saying that's not what it takes to develop and sell with a profit, I simply don't know. What I am saying is that I have not yet come across any personal use case that would justify the expense. I would pay $5-10 and then the same again in a few years if it's worth it. If that's not feasible I'd rather go with the included email client or pay for something like O365 which delivers so much more for the same price.

Most apps just don't deliver enough benefit to warrant the price, even if they are well made, and that's why it's such a tough market.

I truly find it baffling that the personal computer software industry operated for over a quarter of a century on a buy-it-once model just fine... back when software development was far harder/slower. But now we're supposed to all believe that they suddenly need a continuous revenue stream from their users simply to patch the app when bugs are found?

 

[doobydoooby]

fyi their tweet from yesterday, seems the mac version is fixed and the ios fix is waiting app store release:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579495963617808386

 

[blaine07]

fyi their tweet from yesterday, seems the mac version is fixed and the ios fix is waiting app store release:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579495963617808386

They’re backpedaling nicely.

 

[Hodderauthor]

I loved Spark. I loved the ability to Print to PDF. I loved the third party extension to send an email to my Things 3 to do app. None of this is available in Spark 3. So, to be told that Spark 2 users will have continued free access to their existing features doesn’t sit well. When I queried this, I was told that they’re on the roadmap. It feels like Spark 3 has been released too early.

I’m not averse to the subscription model (if the price is right (it’s not)), but I’m not paying for a product that doesn’t give me what the old free model gave me. Sticking with Spark 2 then, while it’s still supported.

 

[ahostmadsen]

And have every email you send infected by ads: "sent with spark."

I can accept that they put new features behind a paywall. But requiring you to pay to remove "sent with spark" is like blackmail.

They did listen to us:

"Unfortunately, we missed an error that included the "Sent with Spark" signature every time you compose an email, prompting you to upgrade. This mistake has been fixed on Mac, and Android and is awaiting App Store approval for iOS."

I don't know if it was an error: their product page also stated you needed to subscribe to remove "Sent with Spark." Anyway, they did realize it was unacceptable, essentially blackmail.

 

[iGMX]

I tired Spark before it went SaaS and didn't like it more than the default Mail app. The benefit of Spark was syncing my IMAP accounts (over a dozen) to all my devices, but it didn't even have a Windows app. No thanks.

They do have a Windows app.

 

[iGMX]

Spark will shortly be deleted then, I hate the fact more and more of this is happening.

It will be soon a laptop or iPhone won’t run anything without 20 odd monthly subscriptions at hundreds of pounds a month!

People haven’t got that money anymore.

It's still free if you want it to be. Knee-jerk reaction without even checking what's new or changed?

 

[dbrose]

I loved Spark. I loved the ability to Print to PDF. I loved the third party extension to send an email to my Things 3 to do app. None of this is available in Spark 3. So, to be told that Spark 2 users will have continued free access to their existing features doesn’t sit well. When I queried this, I was told that they’re on the roadmap. It feels like Spark 3 has been released too early.

I’m not averse to the subscription model (if the price is right (it’s not)), but I’m not paying for a product that doesn’t give me what the old free model gave me. Sticking with Spark 2 then, while it’s still supported.

I think you are right here and it is key.

The new version should not have been pushed out until all the features of the previous version were programmed, QAd and approved.

This smells more like they have spent a long time coding it in the new environment (Electron) and probably a lot of resource has gone into it and they just want to start seeing a return - and get it out in the public domain for bugs etc. they would have probably have been better releasing a beta version and TestFlight version with feedback option.

They should have also communicated before availability to their current users of what was coming. By doing a beta phase this would have covered it.

Working for a software company (I install the software on customer sites) the bosses realised about 5 years ago that software rental is the way forward. Rather than a payment up front each year over a 5 yr contract a monthly payment is a better option knowing full well that these customers won’t cancel as the software is integral to their workflow. This gives us as a company a monthly income which in turn is better cashflow.

Subscription will takeover in these trying times.

 

[DFP1989]

I’ve been using Spark for over two years, and I would be fine to pay a one-time fee, but AU$12.99/mth? Not a chance.

There is no way I’m sending emails with their ad at the bottom either.