Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[IKAR0S]

I believe Apple is waiting for Intel processors without security bugs.
All the current processors are vulnerable.

 

[corebeliefs]

And you see the same comments being recycled here. Lots of venting, anger and frustration. Lots of finger-pointing (which seem to suggest a fundamental lack of understanding about Apple’s organisational structure). And you see this vitriol spill over to other threads about Apple watches and Animoji (which again shows a lack of understanding about Apple’s business model, and frankly, says more about the critics than it does about any shortcomings on Apple’s part).

I guess my point is that because I am not so invested in the Mac (I upgraded to the 5k iMac last year, but that will likely be my last Mac purchase for the near foreseeable future), I am able to take a step back and appreciate the “bigger picture”, so to speak.

I see and appreciate Apple’s continued efforts at expanding and adding value to their ecosystem. I look forward to future products such as the AR glasses, self-driving cars and continued watch updates because I know that Apple’s design-led culture will be able to do them justice in a way that no other company can.

And you start to see a common trend - these new products have everything to do with iOS and little / nothing to do with the Mac. iOS is the future, not macOS (though admittedly, we may still require macOS as a stepping stone for that much longer).

And as such, I can understand, even accept, that in order to keep certain hot products like the Apple Watch updated on an annual basis, it means that other less popular products inevitably fall by the wayside, because Apple is clearly going at full throttle to get all this done.

I realistically don’t expect the Mac to be updated annually (maybe closer to every 2-3 years). That ship has already sailed, and that’s just the way she goes.

I've given up a lot of expectations of Apple, from the price of its phones, to the shaky reliability of its cloud services, dismantling parts of its ecosystem (airport line), and its consumerization of Pro apps. The Mac is a harder thing to let go of. They may come out with another model and make everyone happy again, but for me there's just isn't a momentum with the Mac like there was in the past. And it seems that Apple could decide to lose interest in it all together at some point, after coming out with a next generation of hardware. Them's the breaks, I think we're processing this realization a little bit more since a developer has risked its livelihood to criticize Apple publicly.

 

[ChrisA]

Apple should just start licensing/selling Mac OS on standard PC hardware and stop fooling themselves and everyone else with hardware. No reasonable person would buy a brand new Mac mini today and think to themselves that they made a smart purchase.

They don't have to go that far. Just sell a select few PCs with Mac OS already installed. This way Apple is not having to support hundreds of random hardware combinations. Apple would choose the best half dozen of the PC hardware and only support those extant models

 

[geromi912]

That will not happen. AMD is not crap, nVidia has no offering providing the same or better performance with the same TDP. Or at least did not last year. nVidia's policy is awful. I

Don’t make me laugh, for the same 180w TDP the gtx 1080 is massively faster than the rx580

 

[Schizoid]

Come on guys, who needs decent Macs when you’ve got television programmes, self-driving cars and phones that sometimes unlock when you look at them.

 

[Sorrel]

There are three markets for PCs:

• Developers & industry professionals
• Non-industry professionals
• Everyone else

General buyers (i.e. everyone else) pay less attention to internals of a machine. If it runs ok for several years - running the latest software for that time - then they will be happy. I know lots of these people: they are the rest of my family, who run things like:

• MacBook pro from 2010 (not getting 10.14 this year)
• The terribly underpowered iMac from 2015

They don't know or care about memory, disk speeds or chips unless they feel that their system doesn't work properly. They are the vast majority of Apple's PC market. They are not interested in regular updates, but they may well care if the system they buy from Apple has a rubbish screen (hello MacBook Air) or can't display properly on a 4K monitor (hello the Mac Minis). That is the main problem with the current line up and really needs to be fixed by the Autumn (but then, hey, you could have said the same thing last year).

Apple are catering to the non-industry professionals with the iMac Pro, who want a machine that is fast and has some status credentials (i.e. expensive and looks expensive). Some of the higher end other systems also fall into this bracket.

Apple have been failing the industry professionals for a few years now. To satisfy these people (I, as I'm sure most readers are too, am one) there needs to be regular updates of the top end of the machine specs, preferably allowing home user modular upgrades. My guess is that there are not enough of us to make investing in this market worthwhile across the board for Apple. The more they offer the modular systems we want, the less often we will be buying them, making it even less attractive to Apple.

We will be getting a Mac Pro in 2019 (bound to disappoint those who have imagined a different computer to the one they will be offered), but I think those who think Apple have gambled that the developer community has nowhere else to go might be right. For the developers without a lot of money to spend I think Apple hardware updates will always be underwhelming - and if you read back on the forum you will find that's almost always been the case.

 

[femike]

I’m seriously contemplating going back to Windows. Macs are just too expensive and frankly windows 10is maturing nicely. Version 1803 has been butter smooth. Although i’d loose some of the mac platform features like messages on the mac and photo synchronization, I think I could live without those. I never really used stuff like pages and keynote since no one around me uses a mac that can read those. My bosses are all on PCs.

There is no headless macs available that's not 4-6 years old and these are still listed for the same release price! Its an insult to customers. No business should treat customers that way. And customers should not support a business like this. The current mac mini is 4 years old, there is only 2 more years of Apple OS updates. Apple thinks customers are fools.

I moved to Windows 10... no... I don't like it, and want to move back, but Apple isn't providing a viable product anymore. The mac is still an important link in the Apple ecosystem and, well, they obviously don't care, and its been this way for more than a few years now.

 

[ShizPadoo]

Don’t make me laugh, for the same 180w TDP the gtx 1080 is massively faster than the rx580

At the moment. Each has been through the same situation over the years as AMD is currently going through. AMD's next generation of technology could bring them level to Nvidia or overtake them. They caught up in CPUs and they can do the same in GPUs.

 

[danckwerts]

I think Mr Carnicelli is quite right. Not only is Apple hardly updating Macs but the obsession with form over function has given us iMacs which are very difficult to repair, even more difficult to upgrade and lumbered with mobile chips because desktop chips would overheat. The mac Mini was first crippled with an inadequate spec and then left to rust. The Mac Pro was a silly shape (frankly, a largish box would have been better for servicing and expansion) and hasn't been updated. MacOS, while still better than Windows, is losing ground.

 

[manu chao]

Using MacRumors' own Buyer's Guide, Carnicelli points out that it's been more than a year since any Mac, with the exception of the iMac Pro, has been updated.

It's been 375 days, for example, since the iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air machines were last updated,

Here we go again, Intel has been (trying to be) on a yearly cycle but if Apple selects to also have a yearly cycle and doesn't stick to it to the day, you get messages like 'It's been more than 365 days since ...'. Every time Apple updates something after less than 12 months, it sets itself up for complaints when the next updates takes more than 12 months to get back to the longtime average of 12 months. Heck, even iPhones the supposedly only thing Apple still cares about are on a strict yearly cycle with some models being released offset, ie, iPhone SE.

That doesn't excuse the Mac mini and the Mac Pro, but at least in the case of the latter Apple has clearly acknowledged the problem and promised to do better.

 

[geromi912]

At the moment. Each has been through the same situation over the years as AMD is currently going through. AMD's next generation of technology could bring them level to Nvidia or overtake them. They caught up in CPUs and they can do the same in GPUs.

AMD has literally NEVER been able to compete performance per watt. The ONLY thing going for them is cheaper at the cost of massive power draw. Just look at the vega 64 that draws 350w under load and still significantly slower than the 250w 1080ti. Exactly the same story with Fury X before it. Vega is a flop deal with it.

 

[Made In Machines]

The state of mac hardware is embarrassing. They only thing they've got left is OSX and the fact that they still look damn good.

 

[manu chao]

I think Mr Carnicelli is quite right. Not only is Apple hardly updating Macs.

Surely, updating the MacBook Pro once every year (just not the same month every year) is 'hardly updating'. But updating the iPhone once every year is almost giving it too much attention.

 

[femike]

If Apple actually put out a decent machine at this point, would an Apple user gamble on it? With the tepid support that Apple has given the Mac line. It's almost gotten to that point.

Good point. I myself, will not trust them if they bought out a headless mac (eg a mac mini) this year. I need proof of Apple's committent before I commit myself. After 4-6 years of not caring, I need more than that.

 

[geromi912]

Good point. I myself, will not trust them if they bought out a headless mac (eg a mac mini) this year. I need proof of Apple's committent before I commit myself. After 4-6 years of not caring, I need more than that.

Well if they make another Mac Pro you can upgrade the CPUs gpus ram etc so it’s fine

 

[blipmusic]

... vitriol spill over to other threads about Apple watches and Animoji (which again shows a lack of understanding about Apple’s business model, and frankly, says more about the critics than it does about any shortcomings on Apple’s part). ...

What? Your fatalist attitude isn't exactly helpful either. Of course we will criticise Apple. If I pick a Linux Thinkpad for my next laptop, I might as well go for an Android phone as well etc...

The Apple eco-system is part of what makes some of us stay, for better or worse. As for hardware, I still haven't found a laptop with a touch pad as good as Apple's implementation and for me it's a *nix-based system or nothing. I have absolutely zero interest in running Windows so I'm passing on Microsoft's Surface alternatives (I'm possibly being ignorant here, assuming the hardware integration won't work well if these run Linux).

I'd even pick an iOS device as my main device if I were in complete control of my own data (you know, the reason we use computers in the first place), but I can't pull up a terminal, can't compile code and the user-accessible parts of the file system are mostly compartmentalised in ways that annoy or anger me.

 

[Substance90]

This reminds me of so many bands slowly changing their sound over the years and disappointing their hardcore fans but ultimately ending up more (commercially) successful with their new fan base. Sad but true.

I already have a Linux based mini-itx desktop in place of my trusty old iMac and soon my MBP will be replaced with a Linux based notebook by the looks of it.

 

[richinaus]

Not taking a side or anything, but I love how 90% of the comments here go something like this:

Apple is ignoring the Pros who need the latest and greatest hardware, updated regularly. That’s why I stick to my 2014 MacBook Pro, because the Touchbar is for consumers.

If you absolutely need a top spec machine... how do you get by with a 2014?

Haha I have been thinking this too. It’s hilarious reading the comments.
I had the top end 2014 15” model and it nearly got smashed into the wall, it annoyed me so much (too slow).

However I skipped buying a MBP for my main machine and got an iMac pro. This was after buying and testing out the current machines and realizing they weren’t for me anymore (I got a 13” MBP and that got sold a few months back, as you guessed, too slow). The machines are for consumers on the whole.
I wish more realised this rather than wanting things that aren’t going to happen.

 

[meme1255]

l the keyboard and touch bar will be improved.

Mac Pro is the biggest hole in the lineup, the new platform coming next year should have been released a year or two ago. Even though market share is low, it’s an important model.

Mini is adequate for its target audience but newer processors and TB3 are overdue. We’ll either get an update, probably including quad core again (or it’ll be canceled) this year or next. It will never be a popular model, even if mini fans had their dream machine. (Because it would be Apple-priced, and users overwhelmingly prefer laptops or iMacs.)

12” MacBook updates will be driven by Intel Y-series CPU availability. Maybe no update this year. Will be the first model to run ARM-based macOS, if Apple chooses to go in that direction.

MacBook Air is sold at a price point and doesn’t need, and will never get, a yearly update. But it’s due.

iMac Pro won’t be updated yearly because Intel won’t be updating Xeon W-series every year. Same with Mac Pro, when it’s released next year.
The iMac and MacBook Pro will be updated this year, just like every other year for the past decade (with one single exception). The year’s not even halfway over, no need to panic. I’m hopefu
But sure, let’s hear all the “concern” about Mac hardware, while Apple continues to increase market share against PCs in a shrinking market. Updates will come, of course waiting is really, really hard—especially when updates are imminent.

Don’t make me laugh, for the same 180w TDP the gtx 1080 is massively faster than the rx580

Don’t make me laugh, for the same 180w TDP the gtx 1080 is massively faster than the rx580

Because MacBooks use 180W TDP GPUs

 

[mozzo]

Sad but true, for the first time in 20 years I am going back to a Windows machine. As Apple kills off its eco-system, e.g. Airport access points and monitors, it becomes less appealing to buy ancient, overpriced hardware and put up with a more and more buggy OS. 90% of recent feature additions are simply bloatware IMHO.
If it wasn't for still best practice disability features and some synergies to my iOS devices (iCloud), I would have abounded Macs already come time ago.

 

[femike]

Tim Cook MUST go. He has no balls. It’s absolutley incredible that no one is saying this. Apple was innovative and lean, now its just a monolithic company with no vision milking the winning formula. iOS has become pure junk, so many bugs it’s hard to keep up with. iOS1 has better auto correct than iOS 11 for goodness sake. Security bugs across all platforms. Minimal updates to Mac hardware. Confusing nomenclature in regards to the iPad. Apple Watch design is stale and competitors are getting much more battery life out of their smart watches. Plus a plethora of other things I won’t bore you with. Bring back Forstall, get rid of cook.

I’d wager money that Cook was waiting for Forstall to slip, and that he took full advantage of the maps situation to get rid of him. 5 years later and Apple maps still sucks. Forstall WAS Apple. Mac OS X was heavily inspired by his work at Next, and iOS was his teams creation. What has cook contributed? I suppose privacy, because he doesn’t want people looking at his dick pics to his boyfriend (not a jab, just keeping it real).

Even more annoying, Tim Cook has weasled his way into supposedly being someone whose opinion on politics and life are messianic. We get it Tim, you’re gay. Can we carry on now with refreshing the Mac hardware?

Good to see I'm not the only one who realises the obvious.

 

[gwaizai]

EMOJIS
Days since last released__________________1

 

[theluggage]

They don't have to go that far. Just sell a select few PCs with Mac OS already installed. This way Apple is not having to support hundreds of random hardware combinations. Apple would choose the best half dozen of the PC hardware and only support those extant models

Apple tried the licensing route once, shortly before the Second Coming, with the idea that clone makers could produce "entry level" computers and Apple could continue to sell premium workstations... Of course, the clone-makers went straight for the high-margin premium models because that's where the ritch pickings were.... I don't see them repeating the experiment.

Unless they're allowed to produce MacBook-killers, I suspect that established PC makers are going to be about as good as promoting Mac OS as they are at promoting Linux - i.e. if you dig down to some dusty corner of their website you'll find a MacOS option.

No, its really very simple: Apple just need to pick up the phone to Foxconn and have them produce a couple of "boring" utility models for the small, but strategically important, number of "power user" customers who need an expandable desktop mini-tower, a proper mobile workstation, a rackmount server etc. Sure, design nice aluminium cases for them so the don't stink up the Apple Stores, but they don't need exotic new custom hardware that takes 3 years to design or the premium prices that go with them.

In the modern PC market, I don't think people who want an all-in-one or an ultrabook are going to buy a mini-tower or mobile workstation even if it saves a buck - but the Windows PC world has that option always there, quietly, in the background, for those who need it. Premium machines like MS Surface and Dell XPS are not the entirety of the Windows ecosystem.

As for the Mythical Modular Mac Pro.... not having even a teaser about that at WWDC must surely be the last straw - will there be any potential customers left in the house if/when it finally appears? Either it is vapourware or Apple are seriously overthinking it (which was the real problem with the Cylinder): Some people want a powerful desktop Mac with regular PCIe GPU cards that can support their choice of display - not a $10k space-grey shard of anodised aluminium that requires them to totally re-imagine their workflow. Howard Kanitbe?

 

[Soccertess]

I have posted a few responses about my thoughts as to why the state of the Mac is what it is today. You are free to search my comment history and read them should you so desire.

I don’t think Tim Cook is the problem here. I guess it’s more that Apple’s vision for the Mac (and for the future of Apple) just doesn’t gel with that the rest here want. But then again, I am not as passionate or as reliant on the Mac as some of you evidently are, so I guess my words aren’t going to go down well for many of you here.

You are not wrong to want updated Macs, but Apple is under no obligation to make them the way you want them either, especially when they have more pressing matters on their plate to dedicate resources to. I guess the only thing you can do is make more noise (and annoy many other forum members along the way) and hope that someone at Apple takes notice.

I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Well, what is funny is that so many people on here disagree with you, and a large developer is finally speaking out. Just dwell on that for a bit, a developer like rogue, whose life and company depends on being able to work with Apple, made such a critique.

Personally, if you were heavy into their Mobile computing, you would also be extremely frustrated with their mobile offering.

And that is the crux of the problem that the tech commmuity has these days, and so many people here today. that Apple was once a tech company, and now it only wants to focus on the non-tech community.

if iOS is your main passion, well, that speaks Volumes. Enjoy your Animoji or emoji, and if you ever get adventurous, try something that the rest of the world uses, something called “andriod”. Usa and japan are iOS last strong holds, and we will see what happens if Apple loses the Mac community

 

[ksec]

I wonder how long do these Ads Spot have to be sold / bought in advance.

May be Apple had planned to have MacBook in WWDC put were pulled in the last minutes? May be marketing department didn't know about the Mac schedule and they just carry out what they have planned all along?

I mean, those Ads are like insult to injury. Are they suggesting buyers should buy MacBook with their crappy Keyboard and outdated Spec along with expensive models, and non updated MacBook Air or Mac mini?