Possible Mac Pro internal storage RAID?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Nugget, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Nugget macrumors 68000

    Nugget

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    Houston Texas USA
    #1
    I just spotted this on the Mac Pro tech specs page:
    That sounds like maybe a 4 bay internal RAID unit that can be used in one of the two MPX "graphics" slots. Thoughts?
     
  2. Boil macrumors 6502

    Boil

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2018
    #2
    Well, duh, it is right there in the name, MPX Module...
     
  3. Quu macrumors 68030

    Quu

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    #3
    They're standard PCIe slots so you can run whatever you want in them. RAID cards included.
     
  4. Nugget thread starter macrumors 68000

    Nugget

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Location:
    Houston Texas USA
    #4
    Well the two MPX bays are more than just standard PCIe slots. I think it's an interesting aspect of the new box. Curious what it will do. Possibly it's just relying on the MPX bay to provide the power needed to drive the storage.

    Running a "normal" RAID card doens't get you very far without internal drive bays and power. You'd only be able to use it attached to an external enclosure, at which point I think you'd be better off with a 10gbit NAS or a USB/TB DAS.
     
  5. edgerider macrumors regular

    edgerider

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    #5
    you are probably looking at a MPX module buit by sonnet that will have a raid card and either u2 slot or m2 slots.
    internal hardware raid is a must have on a workstation with 10 gbe there are going to be a lot of those fited with very
    low end graphics and massive nvme array ....
    I would be surprised if they bring the xserve back from the grave to complement this.

    the absolutely fantastic news is that the system is going to support at least 4 gpu and probably even more.

    now not rain on anybody’s parade, the inclusion of the T2 chip could indeed limit what can be plugged on those « standard mpx pcie slot »

    soud to me that each mpx x slot have a kind of standard pcie slot but with a special apple twist that could be a plx switch on each slot because all slot on the board ads up way above the processor 40 or 64 lane.

    and any how we are splitting hair here :
    there are at least 3 x16 standard pcie slot witch mean we are looking at a base machine that can have 8 tb of nvme at 12gb/s on a highpoint ssd 7103 or anfeltec for a little less than 2500€.

    if you think about it we will be able to buy one of those in the close to bare configuration (8 core, 512, rx580, 32gb) for around 6k€, slap all we already have on our cMP2009 inside and still get the same performance as a maxed out cMP 12 core 3,46.

    in 2/3 years people will start upgrading processor and you will find 12/16 cores for 600/1000€....

    there will be two kind of customer for that machine like there was back ine the day of cMP:

    the freelancer that will struggle to buy a base model and will upgrade it along the way, and the big company that will probably buy mid to very hig configurations straight from apple.

    but if you look on the price of the components a vega vII is around 700€
    so dual vega mpx modules will be at least 2000€....

    now if you look at the ram going to 1,5tb even on newegg put you in the 6 k mark.

    maxed out 28 cores with two dual vega and ram you are looking in the 40k territory for a machine.

    the only thing that I am almost 99% sure is that machine is custom taylored for motion picture industry.

    davinci is going to fly on this...
     
  6. Boil macrumors 6502

    Boil

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2018
    #6
    It is a Promise product, not Sonnet...

    It is a MPX Module, so that gives 4 slots to work with...

    It is a 32GB RAID, so if it were M.2 NVMe SSDs, there would have to be sixteen M.2 SSDs in there...? Maybe it is 2.5" SSDs, that would be eight 4TB SATA SSDs...

    If it were U.2, that would take more than 32 drives (looking at the 960GB Intel Optane 905p drives)to get to 32GB...

    It could be four 3.5" HDDs...?


    Might also have been custom tailored to the teams creating the AppleTV+ original content...?


    As will FCPX & LPX...
     
  7. deconstruct60, Jun 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019

    deconstruct60 macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    #7
    can just simply just look at Promise's website. There a product 'preview' page

    https://www.promise.com/us/Promotion/PegasusStorage

    R4i RAID 5 electronics and 4 drives on a MPX card. ( doesn't mention battery back-up, so probably presumes the 'safe' power or host is protected. ).

    Committing a x16 PCI-e slot to handle the throughput of just 4 HDDs is a big mismatch. Even if toss them for 2.5 SDD ( can get bracket adapters in there), it would still a mismatch but a bit better.


    J2i is the more odd one. It doesn't explicitly say it is MPX module. ( two drives would be an even bigger mistmatch in bandwidth. ) [ some connectors next to where the apple I/O card goes. and a somewhat empty volume. Whether that is internal loop-back for displayport or something associated with storage is unclear. ).

    P.S. conceptually Apple could run the DP up thru the PCI-e slot portion that x4 doesn't' electrically use. ). The '1' '2' sockets do look like internal SATA headers. ]
     
  8. Boil macrumors 6502

    Boil

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2018
    #8
    Look at the pic of the J2i, note the bracket with the two screw holes...

    Looks like that will mate up (modular) to the area by those two SATA ports...

    The SATA ports that are for the Promise J2i...
     
  9. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    #9
    As pointed out in another thread. Yay! Downstream of the CPU heated air. Looks like Apple grudgingly put it there. And it discourages folks from trying to put "Too much" in that location. ( M.2 SSDs on a add in PCI-e card.... cooled. SATA HDDs in J2i .... heated. How is that for tipping the scales to the SSD future. ;-) )


    The T2 SSD storage is on the other side of the logic board. Kind of curious now what is under that baffle behind the ram and above the blower. ( perhaps speaker in addition to guides to help change direction ). Downstream of RAM should be cooler than downstream CPU.
     
  10. edgerider macrumors regular

    edgerider

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    #10
    yep my bad promise not sonnet.

    so basically it is a raid 5 card with 4 7200rpm 8 tb drive... so really not that great...

    raid 5 on drive over 2tb is just asking for trouble but it looks like this will be the only option to put 3,5 » plater inside the mac.
    I dont see the point of blocking a 16x pcie slot to run 4 sata drive that will bottleneck at 800mb/s any how.

    maybe it will have some kind of funky ssd cache, but once again raid 5 on 8 tb drive ? no thanks!
     
  11. bsbeamer macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    #11
    If the internal storage options are not enough, there are a lot of external TB3 hardware RAID/RAID5 options that would more than meet the needs of the majority of people. If that's still not enough, PCIe expansion is still possible and units like the (old) HDPro/HDPro2 could make a comeback to fill the void.

    Complaining about the cost of MP7,1 is one thing, but there are plenty of options for RAID5...
     
  12. edgerider macrumors regular

    edgerider

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    #12
    the issue is not the macpro here , it is the choice of 4 disk bigger that 2tb in raid 5 , over 2tb if you do hardware raid with ecc you need raid 6 and a redundancy of n+2 otherwise if a drive fail, with sata drive you will be in a world of pain.

    sata drive where never created with raid in mind
     
  13. guzhogi macrumors 68030

    guzhogi

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Location:
    Wherever my feet take me…
    #13
    I don't know for sure, but maybe the MPX aspect of it isn't for speed, but maybe the added power draw of the RAID controller + 4 7200 RPM 3.5" drives? Like I said, not sure.
     
  14. edgerider macrumors regular

    edgerider

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    #14
    not really, even basic raid card do staggered spinup.
    my 24 bay nettapp chassis just take 640w at startup.

    and once again raid 5 on sata drive bigger than 2tb is asking for dickerie
     
  15. bsbeamer macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    #15
    Simple - the products are not for you. Suggest you look at external 8+ platter TB3 drive arrays. Promise makes several, as do many others. Getting HDD heat into another chassis is a better idea. Configurations with MP7,1 are nearly infinite.

    I'd personally be looking at the Promise adapters if they were sold bare just for adapting SATA SSDs or SATA SSD RAID of some fashion. Repurposing 7+ SATA SSDs of different capacities to MP7,1 would not be free and may not even make financial sense to use them outside of a multi drive dock style unit.
     
  16. edgerider macrumors regular

    edgerider

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    #16
    I alredy have nettapp DS4642 24 bay chassis sas enclosure to areca 1880.
     

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15 June 3, 2019