Yeah, the 4GB G5s are just iMac G5 boards in a Power Mac shell, really.
I have a 2.3DC myself but I haven't had a good place to set it up and use yet.
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Post Your All-Time Favorite PPC Macs
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I have a 2.3DC myself but I haven't had a good place to set it up and use yet.
8O Whaaaa?! WOW. That’s bananas.
Nah. Aluminium PowerBook G4s are, across the series, a pretty neat form factor to have and use, even if not the final version.
So many innovations to carry forward to the MacBook Pros originated with the aluminium G4s. There are some trouble spots in the series, such as some 12- , 15- and 17-inch models contending with what is known colloquially as “dead RAM slot syndrome”, in which the manufacturing micro-solder points to the logic board fail, making the slot fail and, well, preventing that laptop from maxing out the RAM. I traded for an early ’05 PowerBook 12-inch with a dead RAM slot — something the person trading with me conveniently omitted. It meant the system, despite being cosmetically pristine, was stuck at the onboard limit of 256MB, making use of anything pretty much a molasses run.
The lifting up of the final series 15- and 17-inch G4s over the rest of the series is not solely because they were the last of the PowerPC series. Despite being released for sale over four months after the WWDC announcement of the Intel move, they shipped with a completely redesigned logic board. Components within are labelled, categorically, “For 1.67GHz or higher” — indicating that the development of this board architecture began before the June ’05 announcement and was planning for the anticipated PPC7448 CPU, which probably would have taken the series to 2.0GHz and up.
The final run of aluminium 15- and 17-inch models, despite their casual name of being shipped with dual-layer SuperDrives, were noteworthy for being shipped with higher-res displays as standard equipment (the 15-inch is a unicorn of sorts at 1440x960p: when the first 15-inch MBPs shipped, a 1440x900p display was used as the newly-embedded iSight camera comsumed that much space on the upper bezel). In the long term, these displays aren’t quite as bright or vivid as their lower-res predecessors (or their successors in the aluminium MBPs), indicating that LG, the supplier, got these out the door as their first revision of those specifications.
For audio engineering and audiophiles, these last-run models, due to their board re-design, had hybrid analogue-S/PDIF input and output ports. For external display folks, they could accommodate large resolution displays with dual-link DVI.
In another multiverse, in which the late ’05 A1138 and A1139 were merely the first in the series of subsequent PowerPC PB revisions unknown to us here, these would still be pretty impressive to have, despite having the slowest CPU in that multiverse’s series. And, I’m sure, the final in that series, whatever the speed of the PPC7448 with which those would have been shipped, would have been valued as highly collectible for being the last in their 32-bit line. But considering the things in our multiverse which were brought into the CoreDuo and Core2Duo MBPs shipping with 32-bit EFI, I suspect the innovations would have been just as incremental and unsurprising to us here in this multiverse — namely, LED backlight displays, faster RAM, more VRAM, and, possibly, another board re-design to accommodate PCIe (with an ExpressCard slot replacing the PCMCIA slot).
Back in this multiverse, meanwhile, one can still enjoy much of the hands-on aluminium PowerBook G4 experience (and those incremental improvements our multiverse didn’t get) by picking up an aluminium MBP. Many of those, at present, are fairly inexpensive in the used market.
If there is any rectangular iBook I detest the most — ice or opaque case — it’s the dual-USB 500MHz model for what it signified: a capitulation to complaints that the clamshell iBook, whose internals hinted at more revision upgrades to come, was too “feminine” by insecure bros who wouldn’t shut up about it for almost two years. For them, even the buttoned-down graphite model, offered only with the highest specs both times (no doubt, to appease them), wasn’t enough to make them hush.
So being in San Francisco in mid-May 2001 (my only visit ever to the Bay Area), and seeing a multi-storey, building-façade banner ad from Apple hanging from the rooftop, announcing the rectangular ice iBook G3, as if to say to the kvetchers, “OK, OK, look what we did for you!”, made me a total sourpuss about the whole thing. That many of the earlier models had the GPU problem (because of where they stuck the GPU, facing down and next to the bottom case itself, with virtually no protection whatsoever from external shock and dings), underscores just how rushed the design and testing process was which went into getting that cursed thing out the door in order fast enough to appease, yes, the Silicon Valley bros. Apple blinked, and not in a good way.
The only rectangular iBook I owned was an open box 14-inch 1.42GHz, which didn’t have the GPU problem (it had other problems, though). I used that iBook for much of undergrad in university. It did the job, but I never loved it. The next laptop I would come to love was the early 2011 13-inch MBP, as it hit a sweet spot of feeling comfortable to use, light enough to move about, robust enough to be thrown in a bag or backpack without worry, and rock-stable with Snow Leopard. Mine has accompanied me to provinces and states, multiple nations, multiple continents, and multiple, very different, use-applications. So yah, pour one out for it, as its logic board finally says, “OK, I’m done.”
Yup. Go Apple, go.
That’s another reason why I never loved my 14-inch iBook. I also never touched the OEM hard drive.
Ugh, I'm so sorry you had such a horrid experience.
No big deal. A lot of people dealt with that silliness. It was long ago, and unlike Apple’s abandonment of the clamshell iBooks, it doesn’t bother me as deeply with so many years since then (and also with the hindsight and applied experience of just how flaky the Yikes! architecture was). But clamshells? I’m still cranky about that.
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Well heck, I learnt something new today.
My favourite is a 12" PowerBook G4 of course, because that's just how I love my portables, but I think the best model was the first revision of it, the A1010 model. It was a nice clock speed bump, it had an updated GPU, USB 2.0, a digital display output, and from what it seems, it was the real "iMac to go" in terms of performance, and a good deal in terms of price. It really was the smallest full-featured notebook as the marketing implies. Later models failed to innovate frankly, however I'm still in doubt if I want to forgo some modern features and higher CPU speeds and get the earlier model just for collector's sake.
I've heard that the G3 was very power efficient and I suspect the G3 Powerbook was also very close to the iMac, and I really like the hot-swappable bays which I had on an old HP laptop of the same era.
My favorite desktops are the G4 Cube and the iMac G3, which I think is the most iconic PowerPC Mac. It would be my go to choice for games and late 90s web.
And if the PowerBook from the Independence Day really had a mini CD drive, that would've been the coolest 😎
I've heard that the G3 was very power efficient and I suspect the G3 Powerbook was also very close to the iMac, and I really like the hot-swappable bays which I had on an old HP laptop of the same era.
My favorite desktops are the G4 Cube and the iMac G3, which I think is the most iconic PowerPC Mac. It would be my go to choice for games and late 90s web.
And if the PowerBook from the Independence Day really had a mini CD drive, that would've been the coolest 😎
Unashamedly function over form. The entire Power Mac G4 Cube setup w/ the acrylic display, Pro Mouse/Keyboard and Pro Speakers. Heaven. Portables, PBG4 12/17". Titanium close second.
I have three favorites, all of which I have.
One:
The 17" PowerBook G4. The original 1Ghz. I wasn't interested in any of the other models after this one, because it's the introduction of the 1Ghz that for the first time actually made me want a Mac (that specific model).
Before the 17" PB I had a Mac at home and I used Macs at work - but I was not a Mac person. After the 17" PB, I have owned many other Macs - most bought/received because I want the Mac experience, not necessarily because I like the design.
Two:
PowerMac G4 Quicksilver. The design of the speaker is unique to the PowerMac G4 line. Only the QS has this design and it's what caught my attention. I own other PowerMac G4s and have used other PowerMac G4s - I only like the design of the Quicksilver.
Three:
PowerMac G3 B&W:
Basically, my like for this Mac is not so much the case design but how Apple got the 'G3' to show through the side of the case.
I have many other iBooks, PowerBooks, PowerMacs and iMacs. Most of these have been gifted to me or purchased for some other reason. Currently, my last powered on 24/7 PowerPC Mac is my PowerMac G4/500, serving as a glorified NAS.
One:
The 17" PowerBook G4. The original 1Ghz. I wasn't interested in any of the other models after this one, because it's the introduction of the 1Ghz that for the first time actually made me want a Mac (that specific model).
Before the 17" PB I had a Mac at home and I used Macs at work - but I was not a Mac person. After the 17" PB, I have owned many other Macs - most bought/received because I want the Mac experience, not necessarily because I like the design.
Two:
PowerMac G4 Quicksilver. The design of the speaker is unique to the PowerMac G4 line. Only the QS has this design and it's what caught my attention. I own other PowerMac G4s and have used other PowerMac G4s - I only like the design of the Quicksilver.
Three:
PowerMac G3 B&W:
Basically, my like for this Mac is not so much the case design but how Apple got the 'G3' to show through the side of the case.
I have many other iBooks, PowerBooks, PowerMacs and iMacs. Most of these have been gifted to me or purchased for some other reason. Currently, my last powered on 24/7 PowerPC Mac is my PowerMac G4/500, serving as a glorified NAS.
The forum search works best when you use a minimal amount of words. The more words, the less results it returns.I've seen so many threads where you magically pull out several links to different threads that people don't seem to find, and it makes me wonder if I'm not using the search feature as effectively as I could be, or if you have a meticulous collection of every thread there, sorted into various bookmark folders that you can pull up and present at will.
Never fails to amaze me
As I understand it, Steve Jobs was fairly angry about this. He'd promised certain speeds and the manufacturer(s) of the G4 chip couldn't deliver. On the other hand, at the time, he was pursuing a Ghz war with Intel so he had a tendency to boast first and scramble to deliver later.
This, plus the issues with the G5 chips is what ultimately caused him to switch to Intel chips in 2006.
Certainly not by me. I own the A1013, which is the 1Ghz 17" PowerBook G4. I do own the DLSD, but it died a tragic death some time around when my son was in 6th grade (he's a sophomore in college now).
I think the attraction to the DLSD is that it is the last and highest end model of this Mac. I prefer the A1013 for mainly personal reasons.
Yup. Our family was just about to buy a Sawtooth at the time, and my dad and I were both miffed that we were getting a 400 Mhz, not a 450 Mhz machine (with not even a price cut). Apple was able to ship a very limited number of the original 400/450 Mhz machines; I'd wager that they may even be worthy of making it on to the "Rarest Macs" list.
It makes me think about how Apple can be really weird about unannounced updates. When the Late 2005 Mac mini came out, Apple made no formal announcements, and if IIRC from posts on the AppleInsider forums, you could buy a Mac mini labelled with a 1.25 Ghz G4 and magically get a 1.33 GHz CPU; ditto for if you bought a 1.42 GHz and realized you actually got a 1.5 Ghz G4. If stores mixed their new and old stock, you had absolutely no idea what you were going to get.
Ah, what a heady time to be an Apple user. I remember reading silly (but not entirely unbelievable?) rumors that for the Quicksilver Power Macs, Jobs was apparently angry at ATi for making a premature announcement that they would ship with Radeon GPUs before MacWorld. Supposedly, he was so angry that he made the last minute decision to switch to the Nvidia GeForce2 MX as standard across the board. I remember even seeing what purported to be marketing materials for the Quicksilver done up that listed the 32 MB Radeon as being the stock graphics.
This was all rumor of course, but it was fun stuff to read and follow.
This was also the general time that Apple really pushed hard the Megahertz Myth. What's funny is how the rest of the PC world largely laughed it off, only to see Intel in a similar position when they were trying to sell the lower clocked Core Duo and Core 2 Duo vs. their previously stratospherically-clocked Pentium 4.
This was for the Gigabit Ethernet Macs, actually. All the Mac lineup at the time were featuring new ATI GPUs, but because of the premature announcement, Steve didn't mention ATI once in the keynote and pulled their products from the Macworld 2000 expo.
The swap to Nvidia gpus with the Geforce 2mx in the Digital Audio/Quicksilvers was definitely a form of continued retaliation.
Ah, okay. I honestly wasn't 100% sure if it was for the Gigabit Ethernet or the Quicksilver, and my memory is so fuzzy nowadays. I thought it was the Quicksilver since the 466 Mhz Gigabit Ethernet still had an ATi Rage 128 Pro.
This checks out with other rumours where Steve gave vendors their comeuppance by snubbing them for scooping him. The big one: Sun slipping word shortly before WWDC that OS X was going to switch over to ZFS to replace HFS+. Then… ZFS hit a dead-end during Snow Leopard’s development. And then ZFS was ditched.
And then the long road to APFS began.
You're gonna hate me for this. I really hate me for this. But... I got a 15" DLSD (specifically 15", I like 3:2) after searching for weeks last year and... kinda destroyed it a little by setting it down precariously instead of just putting it on a table. It still works, but the charging port and adapter plug are bent in. I'm kind of surprised it still works considering I'd have figured that the extreme deformation would have broken a few PD traces. My review of it though is it's nearly as fast for web browsing with Debian as this Surface Laptop is.
As for my favorite PowerPC Mac... for actually using them I can't really decide, they're all pretty similar experiences (and I'm not overtly fond of any of their keyboards besides the iBook G4's). In no real order, I guess my top three are my Sawtooth (Oddball), my 15" (H. Benbridge), and my Lombard (Donatello). The 15" is nice for video and Internet uses, the Lombard is slow enough to be fun in that way despite it being very responsive with 9.0 (and versatile in OS choice, with just enough New World to run modern Linux and still old enough to run X Server or the Previews) and 14" 4:3 is a nice format for a writing machine (though all four of my 14" 4:3 laptops, three Apple one Dell, get used for that interchangeably), and the Sawtooth, being a desktop, just feels right for gaming (mostly 9.2 and Jaguar). I can hook up a CRT to it, a nice modern keyboard and mouse, shut the curtains, and spend all night playing Quake II or III, SimCity 2000, or Jazz Jackrabbit 2. Plus, it can take a whole 2GB of RAM, making it slightly nicer on the web than even my dual 800 Quicksilver.
In terms of sentimental value, Cloud 9 is my first Mac ever so it's kind of the winner by default on that front. Oddball really gives it a significant amount of competition, though. And I need to SSD mod both.
In terms of having looked at them, I'd say the Power Macintosh 6100s, 8500s/9500s, and Outriggers. Though I have to say I've caught myself out admiring the looks of the Cubes with the acrylic CRTs as well. I also like the Blue and White cases a whole lot, I just love the color combination a lot in general. I have never used a single one of these examples. unfortunately.
As for my favorite PowerPC Mac... for actually using them I can't really decide, they're all pretty similar experiences (and I'm not overtly fond of any of their keyboards besides the iBook G4's). In no real order, I guess my top three are my Sawtooth (Oddball), my 15" (H. Benbridge), and my Lombard (Donatello). The 15" is nice for video and Internet uses, the Lombard is slow enough to be fun in that way despite it being very responsive with 9.0 (and versatile in OS choice, with just enough New World to run modern Linux and still old enough to run X Server or the Previews) and 14" 4:3 is a nice format for a writing machine (though all four of my 14" 4:3 laptops, three Apple one Dell, get used for that interchangeably), and the Sawtooth, being a desktop, just feels right for gaming (mostly 9.2 and Jaguar). I can hook up a CRT to it, a nice modern keyboard and mouse, shut the curtains, and spend all night playing Quake II or III, SimCity 2000, or Jazz Jackrabbit 2. Plus, it can take a whole 2GB of RAM, making it slightly nicer on the web than even my dual 800 Quicksilver.
In terms of sentimental value, Cloud 9 is my first Mac ever so it's kind of the winner by default on that front. Oddball really gives it a significant amount of competition, though. And I need to SSD mod both.
In terms of having looked at them, I'd say the Power Macintosh 6100s, 8500s/9500s, and Outriggers. Though I have to say I've caught myself out admiring the looks of the Cubes with the acrylic CRTs as well. I also like the Blue and White cases a whole lot, I just love the color combination a lot in general. I have never used a single one of these examples. unfortunately.
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After running upon them for years at many ad agencies and service bureaus from about 1999 to 2003, the last time I remember using and even seeing a B&W G3 was when I was contracting at a distinguished electrical and networking diagnostics company (which shall not be named). It was there when I saw a 3D printer for the first time (the really old kind, which added the bonding polymer like an inkjet to a sealed bin of ultrafine powder).
And it was there when, in 2005, I used their lone Mac on site for a reason I can’t recall (I brought my Titanium G4/400, running Tiger, to work since I needed QuarkXPress), but I think it was in service as a print server or as a file exchange/conversion area for dealing with Mac stuff in the otherwise-all-Windows facility. The stand-out to me, given when it was, was the B&W’s use of Jaguar 10.2.8 — an OS which, aside from there and that one time, I’ve never used. I remember the quirks of the Jaguar UI reminding me (in a bad way) of when I bought and tried out Kodiak (the public beta) in late 2000. It was, obviously, much more stable than Kodiak.
I mean, judging by how Cheetah and Puma came out, I wouldn't say that that was entirely obvious going into it. Personally, I find it's the Snow* of the original trilogy, and I like it a lot more than Panther's... IMO halfway hollowness, but I can see how someone would be wary of it.
Honestly, I wish I could have seen them doing some real, revenue producing work. For me, the last time was at a thrift store after going to the dentist's in 2015. I really regret not even just suggesting it... I think I didn't ask because I figured it'd be like $110, but I don't think I knew that.
I think I would agree with that assessment. Panther felt a lot like a clean-slate re-imagining of the Aqua UI.
Yah, it’s mostly a function of how old I am and having been where I was and doing the work I was doing at that time which afforded me the chance to work with B&W G3s at different offices — all but that very last one running OS 8-point-whatever or OS 9-point-whatever. Many had things like external SCSI devices like ZIP drives and other external peripherals like flatbed scanners. Very nearly never were they paired with an Apple display. It was more likely for them to be paired with Sony Trinitron displays and, if the place I was working for was really top-drawer, Radius CRT displays.
From what I understand, they're the same thing anyway, just cheaper (probably even nowadays). And then the Diamondtrons and Iiyamas and so on that were better than Sony's tubes. I doubt it was mission critical if it was used for document processing stuff like you say.
I keep forgetting about them, besides the one swivelling display they made. Mainly because someone made a DOOM source port that supported it. I'm sure they made good monitors, I just never hear about them even around these circles, I wouldn't be shocked if less than 1,000 still even exist.
That last one in 2005 probably had something generic. I can’t remember.
The ones before, at agencies and bureaus? Those were used as workhorses.
Several of their later CRT displays came with a detachable hood and colourimetric-matching accessories (like a thing which had a suction cup to attach to the screen itself) for getting the monitor colour space to match with all other equipment in house. Those monitors were, usually, 21-inch CRTs, with really high refresh rates at high resolutions and were beastly when seen from behind.
I can’t be sure, but I recall at least a couple of units having 5-BNC connectors and not VGA. Mind you, this was in places where a drum scanner ran all day and evening and saved to Scitex CT (continuous tone) format — since the raster image processor was a Scitex system from the late ’80s(!). We were tasked with developing clipping paths, cleaning artefacts to escape cleaning during the drum scanning, and some colour-fixing before sending them to the next vendor for use in page layout — typically, Sunday newspaper circulars for major retailers.
As if I need to elaborate…
Well, others of note are models of remarkable backward and forward compatibility.
The Power Macintosh 9600 is one such model. It was able to take on six PCI cards and 1.5GB RAM at a time when that was nigh-unheard of in a Mac.
I’m going to be kind of a troll and include a “Mystic” Macintosh Color Classic “III” with PowerPC card to this list, because I love how extra that is.
Another (please hear me out on this one!) are the final PowerBook G4s — especially the final 17-inch.
Though stopped in their OS X tracks by Apple, post-Leopard, they can still run current variants of Linux (ok, Debian sid, Void, and maybe only a handful of others) and MorphOS in 2023. For a technical angle, they were the only series whose both form factors — 15 and 17 (sorry, 12-inch, you’re an aluminium iBook G4) — came equipped with S/PDIF optical input/output in the mini headphone port. They had FW800 and FW400; a PCMCIA slot (making legacy, SCSI support and later, AirPort-compliant 802.11n wifi possible); a means to run faster, next-gen PC2 RAM; and high-res displays which remained standard Mac laptop resolutions until the Unibody MBPs went on sale. They inherited the mantle of the 2003 models which were first to have backlit keyboards on a laptop and were the first place where Apple began testing post-iBook/PowerBook portable power adapter sockets in what would evolve into MagSafe. They could still run OS 9 in Classic mode. They could burn DVDs. They were equipped with dual-link DVI ports, ample VRAM for the day, and an ability to run high-res displays like the 30-inch Apple Cinema Display. They were designed for a CPU capable of dynamic frequency modes (not unlike the later, more advanced turbo boost modes of Core iX Macs). The only thing they lacked was a 64-bit CPU.
The Dual Core 2.3 Power Mac G5 is another I love, and amazingly, one I still don’t have. It hits the sweet spot of the multi-core series, with a logic board on par with the Quad Core, but without being overhyped, overpriced, and overheated. As with all G5s, it’s less backward/forward-compatible than the G4, but still has a lot of still-contemporary features like PCIe and SATA, out of box.
And although not faves, honourable mentions go to the G4 Cube, for being a kind of test-run for the Mac mini, and the iBook G3/900, for being the one place where the rock-stable G3 CPU moved at its quickest (even if GPU issues plagued the series).
They were infamous for very good reason: they were rushed, monster-of-Frankenstein dogs which had no business being sold as OEM. They didn’t even have the legacy ADB port of the Yosemite, despite being in almost every other way a Yosemite.
My first Mac was a Yikes! in late October 1999, just after the infamous downclock scandal (on which I got stung). By late November 1999, the logic board had to be replaced by a local Apple authorized repair centre, under warranty (not even AppleCare warranty, which I bought), because audio output up and dropped out on one channel without warning. I managed maybe four years of daily use before the logic board began having a peppering of other issues and quirks — I/O issues with the PATA bus being one of them. I did, at least, get some use of OS X on it — Panther — but had long since stopped using it by the time Tiger came around.
By 2004, I had given up on trying to make fetch happen — no, not the ftp utility — and bought a used, 366MHz indigo iBook G3 to take over as my daily driver, for the then-“bargain” of USD$400. For what was a marginal bump-up in clock speed, even in absence of AltiVec, and a loss of my 19-inch CRT, I got portability, wifi, and the ability to run Tiger without a hitch. That would carry me through my first year in undergrad and continue to get sporadic use by the time the key lime I still run daily showed up in my life the following year (2007) — also for about USD$365, almost the same price as the indigo three years earlier (oh, that key lime premium).
I think my feelings about the first run of G4s would have gone very, very differently had I budgeted instead for the mid-level Sawtooth, which ended up having the targeted clock speed of the 400MHz Yikes! (Yikesemite?) I had ordered just days prior to the downclock scandal.
Since I won’t ever shut up about you-know-what…
Here. Digging through my archives for something else, I just found a pic from the day I actually received the legendary key lime clamshell iBook, next to my then-daily driver, the 1.42GHz 14-inch iBook G4. This would have been just minutes, or hours, after I installed Tiger on it. The EXIF data indicates this was 20 February 2007. (The iBook G4 would have been, at that time, just a hair over six months old from when I bought it new-open-box from the local Apple reseller.)
This pic is as it came out of the Fujifilm FinePix F20 I used to shoot it.
You’re all very welcome.
And from five days later, next to my well-used, but still running indigo 366MHz:
![1679397705532.png]( "1679397705532.png")
Pan back to find my university desk space, with all four Macs I had then. This was back when I used Synergy:
![1679398654268.png]( "1679398654268.png")
And while I’m digging through old stuff, the key lime iBook playing a DVD (excerpt from The Gate to the Mind’s Eye, music by Thomas Dolby):
Pan back to find my university desk space, with all four Macs I had then. This was back when I used Synergy:
And while I’m digging through old stuff, the key lime iBook playing a DVD (excerpt from The Gate to the Mind’s Eye, music by Thomas Dolby):
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Approx time to pixel peep the playlist: 3 secs
Microdisney - I've always loved Only Losers...from Cathal in Fatima Mansions
Approx time to pixel peep the playlist: 3 secs
Microdisney - I've always loved Only Losers...from Cathal in Fatima Mansions
BLUES FOR CEAUŞESCU
I’ve always had a very soft spot for Cathal’s Atacama-dry sarcasm.
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Those designs are right at the top of my innovative macs list. The imac g4 really stands out from all the other Apple Aio designs with the lampshade. We havent really seen a similar neck build return since in either an Apple Aio or monitor. I see more of a lineage with the cube which is also cool in its own way; cube>>ppc/Intel/AS Mini>>Studio etc.
Neat, historically unique & relevant choices.
Imac G4 is the mac with the best sound system when optioned with the isub by harman kardon.
The cube G4 has a similar sound, but I find it lower than that imac, perhaps due to the type of foam material on the speakers or perhaps due to the different equalization.IMHO.
However I have not heard the sound of the mac twenty anniversary TAM.