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coolbreeze

macrumors 68000
Jan 20, 2003
1,809
1,554
UT
Wow, this is getting so obsessive, it's ridiculous.

I can see all gradients with my LG. It's also a brighter panel.

I'll take LG all day long folks.
 

ghsDUDE

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 25, 2010
2,921
740
CASE CLOSED:
Attached is a crop of the same image with all color management data removed by pngcrush.

Just like magic now it views the same in Safari and Chrome...

So it's not an issue with the display.
It's just how the Air's color profile is handling sRGB images.

Maybe that could be improved or maybe it was done to optimize how skin tones etc look in sRGB images.

I'll leave that to a Color pro to explain,
but it seems the LG displays do display the full color range
and others are reporting they have a greater max brightness too.

.

Wohoo! That now works on mine! Haha
 

revelated

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2010
994
2
CASE CLOSED:
Attached is a crop of the same image with all color management data removed by pngcrush.

Just like magic now it views the same in Safari and Chrome...

So it's not an issue with the display.
It's just how the Air's color profile is handling sRGB images.

Maybe that could be improved or maybe it was done to optimize how skin tones etc look in sRGB images.

I'll leave that to a Color pro to explain,
but it seems the LG displays do display the full color range
and others are reporting they have a greater max brightness too.

.

I would be interested to see if you were able to do the same thing from the link he posted, with the super large image, to see if it does the same thing. I never had an issue with his attached images, only the one from that site.

As an aside, the question is why is the Lion/2011 Air's rendering coming out different than that of the Pro or the iMac? Why would Safari be set differently on two different types of Mac? Are they attempting to hide visual imperfections?
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
6,250
2,576
Western US
I made a profile using the Spyder3 calibrator for my 13" MacBook Air with Samsung panel. Try this profile out if you have that setup. I keep the brightness 5 clicks (using the function key) down from full brightness, which is around 75%. Note that this profile isn't going to solve the "clipped" chip issue in Safari, but it could make your screen fairly neutral compared to the default profile (it won't be perfect as each screen with have some individual characteristics). The use it, unzip the file and put the profile into ~/Library/ColorSync/Profiles (you only) or /Library/ColorSync/Profiles (all users), then select it in the Displays tab of System Preferences.

View attachment MacBook Air 2011 Samsung Spyder3 Calibration.zip

EDIT: I should note this calibration is 2.2 gamma, 6500K white point.
 
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OSMac

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2010
1,451
6
Note that this profile isn't going to solve the "clipped" chip issue in Safari, but it could make your screen fairly neutral compared to the default profile

Why does a new profile not solve the clipping in the sRGB test image?
 

OSMac

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2010
1,451
6
Because it has nothing to do with the monitor, as previously discussed.

A profile has everything to do with how the colors are displayed on the monitor that's what it's purpose is.

The Default profile provided with the air is creating the clipping, my question is...
when HiRez used a hardware device Spyder 3 to create a new profile why did the clipping still show?
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
6,250
2,576
Western US
A profile has everything to do with how the colors are displayed on the monitor that's what it's purpose is.

The Default profile provided with the air is creating the clipping, my question is...
when HiRez used a hardware device Spyder 3 to create a new profile why did the clipping still show?

Well the monitor profile is only one piece of the puzzle, another is image files (like test charts) can have their own color profiles embedded, then you have the software which includes ColorSync at the system level (Lion), which interprets and renders the information through applications like Safari. So the interaction of all of these can be complex, to be honest I'm still not sure which piece of it is causing the Safari clipping issue. It's not the Air's display hardware, as it appears OK in non-color-managed applications like Chrome. It could be the monitor profile, it could be the image profile, or it could be a ColorSync/Lion bug that needs to be fixed. But since I'm not seeing the issue in Snow Leopard, using the same calibrator (but different display), I'm suspecting something Lion brought with it. If I have time, I'll try testing both the Air + Lion and iMac + Snow Leopard on the same external display.
 

OSMac

macrumors 65816
Jun 14, 2010
1,451
6
I would be interested to see if you were able to do the same thing from the link he posted, with the super large image, to see if it does the same thing. I never had an issue with his attached images, only the one from that site....

Attached is the full size test image with color data removed by ImageOptim.

It can be viewed in Preview, Safari, or Chrome without clipping.
 

Attachments

  • RGBstep8.png
    RGBstep8.png
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jackyyeow

macrumors 6502
Jul 5, 2011
262
0
Attached is the full size test image with color data removed by ImageOptim.

It can be viewed in Preview, Safari, or Chrome without clipping.

Perfectly visible on ALL blocks from left to right, all colors. 13" 2010 LG. Thanks!
 

lyrrad721

macrumors regular
Jul 28, 2010
127
0
Perfectly visible on ALL blocks from left to right, all colors. 13" 2010 LG. Thanks!

I can see all blocks too on my LG, does this mean that the screen doesn't need to be calibrated? I am not a professional photographer, but I do use CAD software.
 

jackyyeow

macrumors 6502
Jul 5, 2011
262
0
Ok, I've got a friend who has Samsung display on his i7 13" 2011. It was at his house though sadly I didn't bring my 2010 13" along for direct comparison, so take note the following observation is pretty much memory recall.

The first thing I check was the brightness of the screen. Contrary to many had described, I actually find the Samsung panel to be slightly brighter than my LG. I can get comfortable with only 5 bars from left, while similar brightness I need to crank 1 extra bars make it 6 on my LG. Maybe the room lighting is playing some trick but even then, they're pretty similar at the very least.

So next, the contrast and colors. Fired up the original link to the test image, all the high end colors on red/green clipped just like my LG 2010 13". Then, upon opening the "fixed" image, yes now everything is visible, just like my 2010 LG 13".

One thing I noticed is that, the lower end of the color blocks seems to be a little hard to see the difference, 1 bar below the 16 to be exact (value of 8). So I opened some greyscale comic scans that I read online recently, as well as loaded a video file that I always use as benchmark test for display. As a result, greyscale scans appeared to have more contrast, but I'd describe it as more "burned". I gotta admit, black on the Samsung indeed blacker, it's obvious albeit not a direct side by side comparison. You probably won't notice it if you don't have 2 to compare side by side or through experiences.

On the video benchmark test, the color seems a little more vibrant on the Samsung too, while on my LG the video appeared to be a little warm in color tone. Samsung, however, while remained vibrant on color, doesn't have the blue'ish tint like when I calibrated my LG display (no matter how many times I do it). If I turn the brightness all the way up, the darker part of the video (shadow etc) remained darker, while on the LG the darker part of the video will appear washed out.

I fired up the iTunes test as suggested by other MR members, yes, those bars with alternate colors indeed more consistent. But I went through the test a little deeper by tilting the screen to check the viewing angle. I discovered that the Samsung has more even backlight, and yes, it has better viewing angle than what I've experienced on my LG, sad but true. In comparison, LG has different backlight on the display, in a way that it exaggerate the light at the middle of the screen, about 40% area. So you'll see the top and bottom section of the screen is indeed different from the middle part of the screen, although not dramatically so, but the Samsung did better for sure in a way that the backlight seems to have a wider coverage maybe about 80% before the color/brightness change, so the backlight indeed appeared to be more even.

That's all of what I gathered. So all in all, Samsung panel on the 2011 is indeed better in almost every way. Sad but true. And he's got Samsung drive too! Lucky devil.:eek::D

If you want my opinion, yes, the LG is perfectly fine for what I want. I'm not photo/video editor, so I'm happy with it. If you want to exchange your unit for Samsung display, I suggest you not to, everything stated above are only relative differences, I can tell you they're only marginal. Maybe they're critical for professionals, but for average people LG is still a fine display.

PS: There're various threads about the SM vs LG debate, I'm lazy to post my results on all threads, neither I'm opening a new one just for my findings.
 
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jackyyeow

macrumors 6502
Jul 5, 2011
262
0
I can see all blocks too on my LG, does this mean that the screen doesn't need to be calibrated? I am not a professional photographer, but I do use CAD software.
I don't know, I don't use any photo editing softwares.

Some ideas though, when we work with audio in recording studios, we deal with many different pairs of speakers as well as different room. Some of us will carry a CD that we know very well as a reference, so we can tell the difference of the speakers more easily.

You may want to use a color palette image or an image that you use it as a "benchmark" or reference.
 
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