Power Mac G5 Developer Note

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by AtariMan
I wonder if you could put a normal 80pin ribbon cable on there (one with two connections) and somehow mount a PATA disk in the space where the PCI-X cards go. Then conect the hard disk up as a slave and the Superdrive as master.

For this I wouldn't use a ribbon cable, I would use a round shielded ide cable. Visit your local PC hardware build-it-yourself store, they generally have bins full of these for cheap. The round cable will fit much better, and won't destory the cooling airflow in the process.

If you currently have a lot of internal HDs (like me, I have 6), you can accomodate these by finding a cheap PC ATX case. Anything will do, hell you can pull a 386 out of the dustbin and it will work. Strip out everything except the power supply, and install the drives in the case (powered by the ATX power supply). Then use 36" round IDE cables to connect to your Mac's IDE connector. You can get the round cables in through a spare PCI slot opening, if you remove the rubber connector-covers.

It can be kinda messy looking unless you have some space in back to shove the PC case. But it gives you a lot of expandability, without straining the Mac's power supply or ruining that awesome ventilation system.

 

[daveL]

Re: for bandwidth, not register size

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Apple (as well as most high performance Intel boards) use pairs of 64-bit wide memory DIMMs in order to transfer 128-bits per effective memory clock cycle. This is then passed up to the CPU on a narrower, but faster, bus. (64-bits at 167MHz for G4, 64-bits @800 MHz for P4, 32-bits at 1000MHz for G5)

It's unrelated to whether or not the CPU is 64-bit. Server systems carry the concept further, using memory in multiples of 4, 8 or even 16 DIMMs.

Note, however, that the G4 and P4 transfer 64 bits per bus cycle *in one direction only*, i.e. a read OR a write. The G5 transfers 32 bits per bus cycle, but it can perform a 32 bit read AND a 32 bit write in the same cycle.

 

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by testnull
(heck, I can't find 1GB modules - where do they get them?).

http://www.pricewatch.com

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Which keyboard to get?

Originally posted by onnimikki
(Personally, I thought about getting one of the Macally keyboards, but my wife is vetoing that since she wasn't able to test it in person)

That's too bad, cause they're the best. If you liked the old Apple Extended II's, you will like the MacAlly's. IMO.

 

[ilko]

Upgradeability?

I have a question that bothers me a lot! Can you upgrade the processor??? Can anyone shed light on that? Is the G5 soldered onto the motherboard, or not? Does anybody know?

Thanks!

 

[Haberdasher]

Originally posted by backspinner
from page 26: Note:The AGP bus is 1.5 V only and is not backward compatible. Older AGP cards will not work in the Power Mac G5 computer.

Ouch...but then again, if it comes built to order with at least and 8x AGP card, then chances are not many people are going to downgrade.

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by OSeXy!
Of course, against my own argument, perhaps this is why they are including a usb 1 port on the back... Plug your keyboard into it and you get an open usb 1 port close to hand (once you have plugged your usb mouse into the other one on the keyboard), as well as the usb 2 port on the front of the G5...

I guess I just want to believe that there will be a new pro keyboard/mouse.

There are no USB 1.1 ports on the G5s. They are all 2.0 (which is compatible with 1.1, but they all can run at full speed).

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by soggywulf
If you currently have a lot of internal HDs (like me, I have 6), you can accomodate these by finding a cheap PC ATX case. Anything will do, hell you can pull a 386 out of the dustbin and it will work. Strip out everything except the power supply, and install the drives in the case (powered by the ATX power supply). Then use 36" round IDE cables to connect to your Mac's IDE connector. You can get the round cables in through a spare PCI slot opening, if you remove the rubber connector-covers.

It can be kinda messy looking unless you have some space in back to shove the PC case. But it gives you a lot of expandability, without straining the Mac's power supply or ruining that awesome ventilation system.

Giving the term "Frankenputer" whole new meaning ...

Really, though, a good idea. Having two power supplies connected through the MB worries me a little, though I can't put my finger on precisely why.

 

[noverflow]

from page 26: Note:The AGP bus is 1.5 V only and is not backward compatible. Older AGP cards will not work in the Power Mac G5 computer

This really sucks... i ordered mine 20min after the keynote. I was hoping that i could just put in my geforce 4 ti. But now that i cant i want to upgrade my video card. But the only way to make changes to the order is to cancel it and place it again. and that alone would push me to the back of the line when i am at the front of the cto line.

Any recommendations on what to do?

 

[davei]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Giving the term "Frankenputer" whole new meaning ...

Really, though, a good idea. Having two power supplies connected through the MB worries me a little, though I can't put my finger on precisely why.

Potential for ground loops.

 

[daedelgt]

Originally posted by noverflow
This really sucks... i ordered mine 20min after the keynote. I was hoping that i could just put in my geforce 4 ti. But now that i cant i want to upgrade my video card. But the only way to make changes to the order is to cancel it and place it again. and that alone would push me to the back of the line when i am at the front of the cto line.

Any recommendations on what to do?

Call and try to change your order. I did such with my 17" PB and the actual order date never changed even though I upgraded the ram a few weeks later.

 

[SpamJunkie]

Originally posted by noverflow
This really sucks... i ordered mine 20min after the keynote. I was hoping that i could just put in my geforce 4 ti.

AGP 1.5V is 4x or 8x. Your gf4ti should be 4x which should be compatible with the G5.

 

[daveL]

Re: Upgradeability?

Originally posted by ilko
I have a question that bothers me a lot! Can you upgrade the processor??? Can anyone shed light on that? Is the G5 soldered onto the motherboard, or not? Does anybody know?

Thanks!

No, each processor is housed on its own module. It isn't clear to me that you can update the CPUs with faster ones later due to the U3 controller and bus clocks.

 

[daveL]

Originally posted by jettredmont
There are no USB 1.1 ports on the G5s. They are all 2.0 (which is compatible with 1.1, but they all can run at full speed).

Actually, the keyboard acts as a USB 1.1 powered hub; there are two USB ports available on the keyboard.

 

[illumin8]

Re: Re: Oops.. someting is burning..

Originally posted by apeiros
No, afaik the fans run at full power if there is no thermal control. So rather "Ooops... something is brawling..." - still awful but at least not that awful as a burnt CPU was.

I hate to gloat, but I called this perfectly in some of my earlier comments. When I saw the type of thermal control Apple was using in the G5, I knew they had to have taken a cue from the big Unix server makers, such as Sun.

On a Sun server you have a daemon that monitors the temperature of various components and tells the fans what speed they need to operate. If this daemon crashes or dies for some reason, the fans will spin up to their maximum level just to be safe.

Trust me, you probably do not want your G5 fans to be spinning at maximum level. I bet it's very loud at max.

 

[noverflow]

Originally posted by daedelgt
Call and try to change your order. I did such with my 17" PB and the actual order date never changed even though I upgraded the ram a few weeks later.

Thanks a ton. i did just that.
Had to talk to 2 people t do it though. The first guy would not even try and said it was not possible. The second guy just did it.

 

[negrito]

superdrive

what kind of superdrive will have the g5? a05 or a06? in fact no product specification is available about the superdrive also the harddisk manufacturer isn't indicated.
does that mean they change the superdrive when a newer one is available or do they never change it (dito for the harddisk)?

update: someone tested the a06 and it works in panther but not in 10.2.5 (link )

 

[illumin8]

Originally posted by ClimbingTheLog
Probably because it's a 64-bit architecture and most RAM is designed to be addressed by 32-bit systems.

No, it's because they want to access memory at 800 mhz., and there are two 400 mhz. banks, therefore access to memory is done simultaneously to effectively double memory bandwidth.

 

[illumin8]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Giving the term "Frankenputer" whole new meaning ...

Really, though, a good idea. Having two power supplies connected through the MB worries me a little, though I can't put my finger on precisely why.

Don't be worried. Using any kind of external hard drive is just the same. Power is provided by an external power supply. Heck, any two Macs plugged into the same ethernet hub are connected from motherboard to motherboard!

 

[icrew]

Re: Re: Re: Oops.. someting is burning..

Originally posted by illumin8
I hate to gloat, but I called this perfectly in some of my earlier comments. When I saw the type of thermal control Apple was using in the G5, I knew they had to have taken a cue from the big Unix server makers, such as Sun.

On a Sun server you have a daemon that monitors the temperature of various components and tells the fans what speed they need to operate. If this daemon crashes or dies for some reason, the fans will spin up to their maximum level just to be safe.

Trust me, you probably do not want your G5 fans to be spinning at maximum level. I bet it's very loud at max.

Well, that's better than a Dell laptop I've seen--on that laptop, if you don't have the proper drivers installed, the fan WON'T run, causing it to overheat and shut itself down. That took one of my colleagues quite a while to figure out....

 

[moss84]

Re: superdrive

Originally posted by negrito
what kind of superdrive will have the g5? a05 or a06?

After comparing the speeds Apple lists for the superdrive, I think it is the a06.

 

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Really, though, a good idea. Having two power supplies connected through the MB worries me a little, though I can't put my finger on precisely why.

Nah, there's no problems. It's exactly equivalent to using an external hard disk. An external HD has its own power supply. Using the ATX case is just an extension of this.

 

[soggywulf]

Re: Re: superdrive

Originally posted by moss84
After comparing the speeds Apple lists for the superdrive, I think it is the a06.

Woo. That would be good news. Next question--will it burn DVD+R/RW? It would seem that it should, since I wouldn't think the drive would pass that information (+ vs -) through to the OS. But I dunno for sure.

 

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by noverflow
This really sucks... i ordered mine 20min after the keynote. I was hoping that i could just put in my geforce 4 ti. But now that i cant i want to upgrade my video card. But the only way to make changes to the order is to cancel it and place it again. and that alone would push me to the back of the line when i am at the front of the cto line.

Any recommendations on what to do?

Well, an ATI 9600 is at least as fast as your Geforce4TI was going to be (IF you were able to put it in there.)

Why not just wait for the 9800 retail card to ship? ATI has unofficially said it will be available in a month. I don't know if they will stick to the timetable, but the lead Project Manager at ATI went on record as saying it IS coming and that it will be out in a month. I'm assuming in the timeframe of the MacWorld conference this month.

http://www.insidemacgames.com/features/view.php?ID=240&Page=2

On the above link they mention "imminent" release, and that it WILL work in any AGP equipped mac including the G5.

 

[Kermit]

Hopes for the future

There are two things I'd like to see shipped with the Power Mac G5. First I'd like a DVD(+-)RW-compatible Superdrive installed and supported in Mac OS X. Then I would like it to have a redesigned wireless set of Apple Pro Mouse and Apple Pro Keyboard.