Power Macintosh G3 Beige running OS X 10.5.8 Leopard

[LightBulbFun]

@LightBulbFun If you are still having trouble with KP due to the Beige G3 builtin video, open firmware can skip probing for it with the pci-probe-list command.

sadly that seems to be caused by something else

while the panic IS IOGraphics related, its not caused by the Rage Pro GPU in the G3 beige

I get the same Kernel panic with my G3 BW and GeForce 6200, and in my 9600 with Radeon 9200

(as a side note I found that the pci-probe-list command did not work for me at the time in disabling the onboard graphics in a G3 beige so I brute forced deleted every property for it, which did the trick, as documented above )

 

[bunnspecial]

@jimjamyaha Thank you for all of your hard work on something that still interests a lot of us today.

I have a bunch of projects that @LightBulbFun continues to bug me about but that I just haven't had time to finish.

I need to dig that Lombard G4 back out, although I don't know when I'll have a chance to do it.

I also want to finish up my 8600 project, especially since I have all the bits and pieces to make it happen(G4, bootable ATA card, Radeon 9200) and I know that one has been conquered before.

 

[christiann]

well as some of you know I own a PowerMac G3 beige Desktop now as some others may also know I got leopard 10.5.4 running in QEMU witch emulates a G3 beige so I have always wanted to run Leopard on my Real G3 beige and Finely after a year of waiting I finally got a G4 ZIF a 400Mhz G4 PowerLogix chip (in a Xlr8 slocket witch was nice) so I popped it in my G3 beige got it working (Had some fun with the Dip switches on it since i could not find a manual for it online) then I imaged my 6GB 10.5.8 Disk image I made in my emulator that works on OWR macs to the first 8GB of the 10GB HDD booted into OS9 then used xpostfacto to reboot me into leopard and what did you know it worked! was so awesome seeing Leopard 10.5.8 running on a Computer from 1998 I had a Radeon 9200 GPU (going to Graphics/Displays in ASP causes a kernel panic I suspect this is due to the onboard video card since it does not KP in the emulator or @bunnspecial G3 Blue and white) it ran very slow on the G3 beige not helped by the slow 10GB HDD and Spot light indexing (I nuked spot light afterwords) well I hope this all makes sense its a Nice achievement for me (now its a @eyoungren approved mac since it runs Leopard )

A BEIGE! WOW- you really know how to G4 the G3!!

 

[bunnspecial]

A BEIGE! WOW- you really know how to G4 the G3!!

The magic in all of that is @LightBulbFun digging up and properly getting all the kexts together to make it work on a computer with PCI graphics.

All PowerMac G3s, including the beige series(desktop, minitower, AIO) and the B&W had socketed CPUs. They work just like an x86 socket from the era like you'd find on a Pentium-left a lever, pull the old CPU out, and drop the new one in. G4s that fit this socket are plentiful since Apple made them(Yikes! G4) and there were bunches of aftermarket ones from ~400mhz all the way up to 1ghz. On the B&W, you have to flash the firmware as Apple locked out stock ones from booting a G4, but otherwise it just takes some tinkering to get the L2 and L3 cache to work properly. Sonnet and others packaged all of this up nicely back in the day since they sold them commercially.

The real issue is that the on-board ATA controller on beige systems is...quirky...to put it mildly and unless you can squeeze Leopard into 8gb(doable, but barely) you need a bootable ATA or SATA card. They're out there, and at least the ATA ones were reasonably common back in the day because of the limitations of the onboard controller. A USB/FW card is also a good idea, and a better video card(Radeon at the minimum, preferably a Radeon 9200) is a good idea than using the onboard GPU.

 

[christiann]

The magic in all of that is @LightBulbFun digging up and properly getting all the kexts together to make it work on a computer with PCI graphics.

All PowerMac G3s, including the beige series(desktop, minitower, AIO) and the B&W had socketed CPUs. They work just like an x86 socket from the era like you'd find on a Pentium-left a lever, pull the old CPU out, and drop the new one in. G4s that fit this socket are plentiful since Apple made them(Yikes! G4) and there were bunches of aftermarket ones from ~400mhz all the way up to 1ghz. On the B&W, you have to flash the firmware as Apple locked out stock ones from booting a G4, but otherwise it just takes some tinkering to get the L2 and L3 cache to work properly. Sonnet and others packaged all of this up nicely back in the day since they sold them commercially.

The real issue is that the on-board ATA controller on beige systems is...quirky...to put it mildly and unless you can squeeze Leopard into 8gb(doable, but barely) you need a bootable ATA or SATA card. They're out there, and at least the ATA ones were reasonably common back in the day because of the limitations of the onboard controller. A USB/FW card is also a good idea, and a better video card(Radeon at the minimum, preferably a Radeon 9200) is a good idea than using the onboard GPU.

Yes. Every time I see that @LightBulbFun does a G4 upgrade, I am impressed... They could start a G4 upgrading business- Haha!
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The magic in all of that is @LightBulbFun digging up and properly getting all the kexts together to make it work on a computer with PCI graphics.

All PowerMac G3s, including the beige series(desktop, minitower, AIO) and the B&W had socketed CPUs. They work just like an x86 socket from the era like you'd find on a Pentium-left a lever, pull the old CPU out, and drop the new one in. G4s that fit this socket are plentiful since Apple made them(Yikes! G4) and there were bunches of aftermarket ones from ~400mhz all the way up to 1ghz. On the B&W, you have to flash the firmware as Apple locked out stock ones from booting a G4, but otherwise it just takes some tinkering to get the L2 and L3 cache to work properly. Sonnet and others packaged all of this up nicely back in the day since they sold them commercially.

The real issue is that the on-board ATA controller on beige systems is...quirky...to put it mildly and unless you can squeeze Leopard into 8gb(doable, but barely) you need a bootable ATA or SATA card. They're out there, and at least the ATA ones were reasonably common back in the day because of the limitations of the onboard controller. A USB/FW card is also a good idea, and a better video card(Radeon at the minimum, preferably a Radeon 9200) is a good idea than using the onboard GPU.

Possible graphics upgrade for the iMac DV SE G3?

 

[bunnspecial]

Possible graphics upgrade for the iMac DV SE G3?

Not possible on a slot load iMac.

 

[christiann]

Not possible on a slot load iMac.

I didn’t think so. But on the tray loading you can expand the memory from 2MB to 8MB on certain models. Wish that were an option for my model.

 

[pc297]

then I imaged my 6GB 10.5.8 Disk image I made in my emulator that works on OWR macs

Hi @LightBulbFun , is this the image called "public-leopard"? I tried it on the beige G3 (upgraded to sonnet ZIF G4 1Ghz) on top of OS9, ran Xpostfacto, installed everything, however I am stuck right after kextload with a "call kernel!" error message. I have also tried patching 10.5.1 alone or 10.5.8 with the "Complete Leopard on unsupported macs package" https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...on-an-old-world-pci-mac.2030002/post-24250246 but I get the same result...

Tiger runs fine on this machine. I tried 10.5.8 on my G4 upgraded Wallstreet (both public-leopard or patching it with the unsupported guide and the installing Xpostfacto) but I get an early KP, will try patched 10.5.1

Cheers

 

[LightBulbFun]

Hi @LightBulbFun , is this the image called "public-leopard"? I tried it on the beige G3 (upgraded to sonnet ZIF G4 1Ghz) on top of OS9, ran Xpostfacto, installed everything, however I am stuck right after kextload with a "call kernel!" error message. I have also tried patching 10.5.1 alone or 10.5.8 with the "Complete Leopard on unsupported macs package" https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...on-an-old-world-pci-mac.2030002/post-24250246 but I get the same result...

Tiger runs fine on this machine. I tried 10.5.8 on my G4 upgraded Wallstreet (both public-leopard or patching it with the unsupported guide and the installing Xpostfacto) but I get an early KP, will try patched 10.5.1

Cheers

indeed it is
interesting that your stuck on Call Kernel, theres someone else who had a 8600 or 9600 with a Sonnet 7450/7455 upgrade like yours which had the same issue

if you stick the G3 CPU back in, does Leopard start to boot? (it obviously wont boot all the way, but it should start too)


I do really need to put together a better image, as the image I put together was thrown together by myself and then sent to @bunnspecial for testing as I lacked real hardware back then

but eventually I had enough people bug me about it I uploaded it mostly as is LOL

so I really do need to put something better together as its a missing a few components a bit janky in places etc


one of the things id like to figure out is if I can get the a standard 10.5.8 install booting, without having to roll back to the 10.5.5 kernel etc

 

[pc297]

if you stick the G3 CPU back in, does Leopard start to boot? (it obviously wont boot all the way, but it should start too)

Thanks for the tip; I have a spare G4 350Mhz from a Yikes! that I will try, it might boot all the way as it runs fine at 400 MHz. I also have three PCI cards in there, including a flashed Radeon 9250, do you think this could clog the PCI bus and cause this?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks for the tip; I have a spare G4 350Mhz from a Yikes! that I will try, it might boot all the way as it runs fine at 400 MHz. I also have three PCI cards in there, including a flashed Radeon 9250, do you think this could clog the PCI bus and cause this?

doubt it, halting at call kernel is a low level issue, ya get the same sort of thing trying to boot Tiger on a 604 without my patched kernel for example

and i Have had my own G3 beige quite heavily laden with PCI cards without any sort of issues like this

a Yikes G4 is a good shout, but do keep in mind they can sometimes be touch and go in there own right in G3 beige's so be prepared to pull RAM sticks and try boot with just 1 if you run into issues

(mainly hanging at the happy Mac in OS 9 for example)

 

[DearthnVader]

Thanks for the tip; I have a spare G4 350Mhz from a Yikes! that I will try, it might boot all the way as it runs fine at 400 MHz. I also have three PCI cards in there, including a flashed Radeon 9250, do you think this could clog the PCI bus and cause this?

What revision Beige do you have ( A/B/C ), and how are you booting it as far as the disk you are trying to boot from?

Are you trying to boot from the Beige internal ATA or an add-in PCI card?

Are you trying to boot from a disk on the Master channel?

Is the partition you are trying to boot from within the first 8GB of the disk?

Generally, the Rev.C Beige G3 can read HFS/+ disks from within Open Firmware, thus BOOTX can be loaded directly from OF. Rev. A/B can't read HFS/+ disks and require some magic to load BOOTX provided by XPOSTFACTO or versions of Mac OS X form 10.0-10.2.x.

XPOSTFACTO uses a custom version of BOOTX that was really never tested to work with Leopard. We can build our own custom versions of BOOTX with logging and debugging to see why exactly you are failing @ call_kernel!

 

[pc297]

What revision Beige do you have ( A/B/C ), and how are you booting it as far as the disk you are trying to boot from?

Hi @DearthnVader , off the top of my head I think it's a rev A (definitely not a rev C as it has an onboard Rage IIc). I do have a spare rev B ROM DIMM somewhere though, would it work in a rev A board? Do you reckon it'd make any difference?

Are you trying to boot from the Beige internal ATA or an add-in PCI card?

From the internal ATA

Are you trying to boot from a disk on the Master channel?

I've tried both Master and CS (only one channel per cable in any case), to no avail. I'll double check the disk where Tiger is currently sitting (and running fine) to see if it's currently set as Master. But yes, I see your point, with the B&W I remember having to set the HDD to CS to get it to work properly with Tiger for some reason even though that was a rev B B&W board, which allegedly doesn't have all the issues rev As have with IDE.

Is the partition you are trying to boot from within the first 8GB of the disk?

Yep, it all fits within the first partition which is 7.6Gb big.

Generally, the Rev.C Beige G3 can read HFS/+ disks from within Open Firmware, thus BOOTX can be loaded directly from OF. Rev. A/B can't read HFS/+ disks and require some magic to load BOOTX provided by XPOSTFACTO or versions of Mac OS X form 10.0-10.2.x.

I usually run Tiger on it with Xpostfacto without any issues, pretty snappy

XPOSTFACTO uses a custom version of BOOTX that was really never tested to work with Leopard. We can build our own custom versions of BOOTX with logging and debugging to see why exactly you are failing @ call_kernel!

That'd be great, cheers I'll also give it a try with a 350 MHz G4 from a Yikes (which runs fine @400MHz) as suggested by @LightBulbFun to see if this could stem from the Sonnet 1GHz Encore G4. I did install all kexts from XPostFacto ("Install everything"), and did have a go at throttling the CPU, alas no luck. Haven't tried without the Sonnet kext though yet.

Cheers!

 

[TzunamiOSX]

@LightBulbFun If you are still having trouble with KP due to the Beige G3 builtin video, open firmware can skip probing for it with the pci-probe-list command.

i have used the commands, but it looks the GPU is still aktiv. Any suggestions? GPU is also a 9200 but i have a Radeon 7000 too (not testet with Leopard).

 

[jimjamyaha]

i have used the commands, but it looks the GPU is still aktiv. Any suggestions? GPU is also a 9200 but i have a Radeon 7000 too (not testet with Leopard).

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Hi, I can double check the instructions I originally used ... But you might not need to do reset all at the end as this might clear what you have stored.

Also, really obvious questions, 1) you just have one 9200 or PCI card installed at once, and 2) you are sure you've selected the inbuilt video via openfirmware and not the additional PCI card when running the disabling commands?

 

[LightBulbFun]

i have used the commands, but it looks the GPU is still aktiv. Any suggestions? GPU is also a 9200 but i have a Radeon 7000 too (not testet with Leopard).

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in my testing you dont need to disable the onboard Rage video card

it can be disabled but the commands are a bit more involved then that and as above I find theres no need to disable it, theres no harm in it just hanging out there

 

[TzunamiOSX]

Hi, I can double check the instructions I originally used ... But you might not need to do reset all at the end as this might clear what you have stored.

Also, really obvious questions, 1) you just have one 9200 or PCI card installed at once, and 2) you are sure you've selected the inbuilt video via openfirmware and not the additional PCI card when running the disabling commands?

1. At my test, the 9200 was installed. PCI cards installed: Radeon 9200, Tempo Trio (IDE, USB2, Firewire), 1000 BaseT Network Card.

2. As it looks like, i dont have selected any card, because onboard and PCI cards are online. How can i find out the right "code" of the part i want to disable?

 

[TzunamiOSX]

in my testing you dont need to disable the onboard Rage video card

it can be disabled but the commands are a bit more involved then that and as above I find theres no need to disable it, theres no harm in it just hanging out there

But 10.5 is hanging after a while and i have read you need to disable onboard GPU to prevent this.

 

[LightBulbFun]

But 10.5 is hanging after a while and i have read you need to disable onboard GPU to prevent this.

what are the exact specifications of your G3 beige here? if you could post system profiler screenshots in leopard of the main system info page and then also of the Rage onboard graphics that would be helpful

also how long is a while? thats a bit vague im afraid! and what sort of hanging are you getting it is just a random hard freeze or an actual panic of some kind?

are you using my slightly Janky public image or an image you put together yourself?

 

[ThomasJL]

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Ah, just look at that beautiful skeuomorphic GUI! It's so much better-looking, and more functional, than the ugly flat design we're stuck with today.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

what are the exact specifications of your G3 beige here? if you could post system profiler screenshots in leopard of the main system info page and then also of the Rage onboard graphics that would be helpful

Base is a PowerMac G3 MT 266 Rev. B and CPU is a Sonnet Encore G4 500/1M

I hope Tiger pictures are also ok, because Leo is freeze Graphic/Monitores

also how long is a while? thats a bit vague im afraid! and what sort of hanging are you getting it is just a random hard freeze or an actual panic of some kind?

Around 20 min i would say. A freeze, no reactions of keyboard and mouse, clock is staying still.
Actually the system is running 51 minutes with OT videoplayback.

EDIT: Freeze after 1 hour and 6 minutes, next boot freeze after 1 min.

are you using my slightly Janky public image or an image you put together yourself?

i have installed the System on a G5 and have made an update to 10.5.8 the i have added the parts by this guide:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/project-g3-getting-leopard-on-a-g3-mac.2241758/post-28574082