PowerBook To Get Dual-Core G4?

[rdowns]

the g4 is going buh-bye as far as apple is concerned (except for the emac for now). we will have a g5 pb soon enough, especially since the new imac will feature a g5. with the imac's new design and i'm assuming from the rumors, a much more compact form factor, they would have had to figure out the heat issues. this will mean liquid cooled g5 powerbooks, i'm guessing in spring/summer of next year.

Going bye-bye. Not so fast. Even with a G5 iMac, Apple will still sell hundreds of thousands more G4 systems than G5 systems in a year.

 

[FYA]

Dual G5 PB when Available ?

If Apple gives us a dual G4 PB, what would happen when they eventually release the G5 PB ?

Dual processors are much faster rendering and better for most design applications. So going from a dual G4 to a single G5 could mean a drop in performance. Right ?

 

[Sun Baked]

Dual-core G4 on the way

While the Mac users of the world are hoping for a dual-core G5, Freescale (formerly Motorola SPS) is gearing up to unveil a dual-core version of the G4 at this year's upcoming MPF.

I don't know about that whole dual-core G4 + PowerBook thing. Right now, the G4 is still a nice laptop chip, and a dual-core G4 might make for a really sweet laptop. However, a dual-core G4 laptop would mean one of two things: 1) a hack design that uses the aging MPX bus, thereby starving what would be a very bandwidth-hungry chip; 2) a completely new PowerBook design using RIO. Option 2 probably isn't going to happen, because when Apple does a complete PowerBook overhaul it'll be because they're moving the line to the G5. As for option 1, I guess it's possible, but it would clearly be a stop-gap measure that wouldn't really be able to exploit the dual-core G4 to its fullest potential.

This may ultimately come down to an issue of timing for Apple. The company is going to want its entire line to go 64-bit as soon as possible, so that the base of 64-bit applications can be more easily expanded. The power consumption on the 90nm G5 is pretty decent, if only IBM could produce enough of them. And the 970's inevitable core revision will improve power consumption ever further, especially when the 970 gets its own on-die DDR controller. (The power consumption of the dual-core G4 is an unknown factor, but it's probably pretty good). So it's really going to be a matter of whether or not Apple decides to wait on IBM to improve yields and/or power consumption. It's either wait on IBM, or hack together a dual-core G4 laptop that's going to be something of a dissappointment.

 

[KindredMAC]

That's COOL....

I don't know about everyone else, but a newer G4 chip in a laptop sounds good to me. Am I the only one that doesn't want my thighs to receive 3rd degree burns if they tried to squeeze a G5 into a laptop ahead of the bell curve to please all the little whiners out there??????
I like the idea of having the G5 only in the Power Mac and iMac for the time being. Granted, the PowerBook has always kept pretty good pace with the PM, but hey, change is a GOOD THING!!!!

Oh yeah, by the way, I love my wife very very much.
(She thinks I'm a dork for posting on these boards)
😀

 

[zelmo]

If this were the case, there would never be an upgrade to any product.
Admittedly it feels crappy to buy something and see the upgrade product that is x-amount faster, for the same price... but if it does what you need what does it really matter.

I just got my 1.33 PB 15" and I love it. I debated waiting to see what would happen in the next six months or so, but if I waited another six months for a G5, then I'd want to wait another 4-5 months for the 2nd rev, then another few months for the prices to drop, then the dual G5 PB or whatever would be six months away, and I'd never get a freakin' computer ever again, always waiting for the next faster thing to hit. My little aluminum beauty does everything I need, and plenty fast enough for me. To heck with the waiting game.
Besides, if I can just get my wife hooked on using wireless internet in the next year, I might need to get another one.... 😀 😀

 

[MikeBike]

The question is 20% vs. 100%

- Does Apple want more marketshare and the fastest laptop possible:
Dual Core G4.
- Does Apple want to depend upon Hype: 64bit chip, but, only slightly faster. 2ghz G5 single, with more power and heat demands.

I'd vote for the DualCore G4.
I don't believe we will see a G5 in a Powerbook till the 65 nanometer process is perfected.

 

[sord]

If Apple gives us a dual G4 PB, what would happen when they eventually release the G5 PB ?

Dual processors are much faster rendering and better for most design applications. So going from a dual G4 to a single G5 could mean a drop in performance. Right ?

PB will have dual core 2.0ghz g4 and the iBook will have a single 1.6ghz g5.

 

[zelmo]

Oh yeah, by the way, I love my wife very very much.
(She thinks I'm a dork for posting on these boards)
😀

and you are...so am I, and so does my wife [and yes, I love her very very much - my wife, not yours 😉].

Where's my damn pocket protector? 😀 😀 😀 😀

 

[zelmo]

PB will have dual core 2.0ghz g4 and the iBook will have a single 1.6ghz g5.

G5 in the iBook and G4 (even a dual-core) in the PowerBook??
That's just crazy talk. 🙂

 

[macsrus]

How does dual-core compare to dual processors?

The best answer would be...... IT depends!
There really isnt a right way to answer your question... because depending on how the dual core is implemented it could be much better than dual processors... to in the worst case actually slower....
While most likely somewhere in the 5 to 20 percent performance gain...

It depends on.... Level 2 and 3 cache sizes on die...
It depends on memory and data transport between the processor cores
It depends on whether or not both cores can be feed by the memory/data bus...
And a whole host of other factors...

 

[nek]

At first I thought that this was good for the PowerBook when FreeScale anounced their e600 and e700 plans months ago. But in order to take advantage of the RapidIO Apple will need to make a motherboard redesign and therefore likely stick with these chips for the PowerBook for a while (1-2yrs). Which means that the G5 will have to wait for a while.

I don't know a lot about these things but RapidIO is an improvement but a lot slower than Hypertransport that the G5 uses. RapidIO is about 1.25GB/sec and Hypertransport is 22.4GB/sec.

But since the current G5 chips will likely be too hot anyway, Apple might as well commit to FreeScale for its laptops. Single core chips in the iBook and dual core in the PowerBook. The dual core e600 will undoubtedly be faster than a single G5 at the same clockspeed. I think it will be introduced at 130nm, then move to 90nm to get beyond 2GHz based on this info.

 

[stuepfnick]

that's the most number of buzzwords i've ever seen in a post with coherent sentences. as for the ppc 74xx having a weaker fpu/mhz vs. the p4, i would say no. perhaps you mean athlon or pentium m. practically any modern processor today has a better fpu/mhz vs. the p4.

Hello! It is true that the G4 has a weaker floating point unit then the P4 or the G3.

In Cinebench a P4 with 800 Mhz would get 80 CB, a G4-800 gets 65 CB and G3 has about 84 CB.

But the Altivec unit is stronger as the one on the G5, although it has less memory latency and some other stuff.

A Dual Core G4+ with fast IO and some other advantages could blast a same clocked Dual G5 in some things. (mainly Altivec heavy stuff)

 

[wide]

If Apple reclocated their HQ to Florida, and then declared bankruptcy, could they still keep their HQ in FL? I know that is the case when an individual declares bankruptcy in FL.

 

[fabsgwu]

Don't put all your eggs, er chips, in one basket. Apple would be wise to look for more than one option here. we'll see...

 

[macsrus]

- Does Apple want more marketshare and the fastest laptop possible:
Dual Core G4.
- Does Apple want to depend upon Hype: 64bit chip, but, only slightly faster. 2ghz G5 single, with more power and heat demands.

I'd vote for the DualCore G4.
I don't believe we will see a G5 in a Powerbook till the 65 nanometer process is perfected.

That could mean probably never....
Noone realized how much trouble the 90 nm process was going to be...
And at 65 nm the hurdles to overcome are 10 times as bad.

 

[Frobozz]

While speculative, that article you quited was interesting. He has some very valid points.

 

[stuepfnick]

I don't know a lot about these things but RapidIO is an improvement but a lot slower than Hypertransport that the G5 uses. RapidIO is about 1.25GB/sec and Hypertransport is 22.4GB/sec.

Can't be! The actual G4 has something like 3 GB/sek, so Rapid IO MUST be faster then this...

Also if this goes to the powerbook it could be followed by the dual core G5 or the dual core e700 (64 and 32 bit, very G5-like) form Freescale.

But I guess: It gets an improved G4 at first: 1.8 Ghz and faster IO - like 400 Mhz FSB - then single or dual e600 (G4+) then single or dual G5 or e700 (G5 mobile maybe? ;-) )

 

[Frobozz]

Hello! It is true that the G4 has a weaker floating point unit then the P4 or the G3.

I think you mean integer performance, not floating point. Floating point math is what AltiVec does.

A Dual Core G4+ with fast IO and some other advantages could blast a same clocked Dual G5 in some things. (mainly Altivec heavy stuff)

It could beat the 970 or 970fx if, in this highly theoretical situation, the G4 was even capable of getting to the frequencies the G5 class processors can. It's been widly reported that the AltiVec implementation in the next G5 generational chip (980?) will outperform a G4.

 

[AidenShaw]

How often do you have these hallucinations?

I don't know a lot about these things but RapidIO is an improvement but a lot slower than Hypertransport that the G5 uses. RapidIO is about 1.25GB/sec and Hypertransport is 22.4GB/sec.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/architecture.html

The HyperTransport protocol integrates the Power Mac G5 I/O subsystems and connects them to the system controller.

Serial ATA, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire, USB 2.0 and optical digital and analog audio are all integrated through two bidirectional 800MHz HyperTransport interconnects for a maximum throughput of 1.6GB per second.

 

[jjmaximum]

More R&D needed

The G5 won't show up in PBs until the heat-resistant gloves are made small enough to allow typing on the keyboard while wearing them 😉

 

[mikeyredk]

The G5 won't show up in PBs until the heat-resistant gloves are made small enough to allow typing on the keyboard while wearing them 😉

don't you mean heat resistant thigh pads 😉

 

[Jo-Kun]

let's hope the iMac G5 sells very good (and they are able to MAKE it fast enough... since G5 desktops are lagging behind in delivery...) so more people will get a 64bit processor at home... so we need a fast release of panther... to finally feel the speed of these babies... because I read a thread of someone mentioning his PowerBook G4 1.5Ghz being faster than the G5 1.6Ghz... I guess 64BitOSX will change that... because sometimes my 2x1.8Ghz feels like it's a bit sleepy... ok it's my fastest Mac ever (before this one I had iBook G3 266, iMacDV G3 400, B&W G3 300,Ti-Book G4 400) but sometimes I get the impression it not running as fast as it could...

maybe the 32/64Bit FreeScale DualCore G4 for PowerBooks and the 32/64Bit IBM Dual processor and/or DualCore G5 for Desktops (both SingleCore in the i-series...?

J

 

[AidenShaw]

64-bit addressing is *not* faster than 32-bit

...because I read a thread of someone mentioning his PowerBook G4 1.5Ghz being faster than the G5 1.6Ghz... I guess 64BitOSX will change that...

64-bit is not faster than 32-bit. It can address more memory, but that can actually cause a slight slowdown.

Don't believe in the "64-bit myth" - unless you have more than 4 GiB of RAM in your 'book, you almost certainly won't benefit from 64-bits!

 

[joeboy_45101]

With Apple unable to get sufficient supplies of the G5's for the PowerMacs and the Xserves I don't really see how they are going to easily deliver an iMac G5. The way I see it the iMac G5 will probably have a 130nm G5 chip inside, this makes sense since IBM is ABLE to produce those in good quantity. It also boggles my mind as to why anybody is holding on to the idea that a PowerBook G5 is just around the corner, a dual-core G4 is just fine for that platform. If FreeScale is able to pump-up the G4 then this is going to be one awesome chip. The G4 is a damn fine processor for normal computing, and with the addition of dual-core shouldn't we call it the G4 Pro.

 

[h'biki]

. because I read a thread of someone mentioning his PowerBook G4 1.5Ghz being faster than the G5 1.6Ghz... I guess 64BitOSX will change that... because sometimes my 2x1.8Ghz feels like it's a bit sleepy...

The 1.5ghz G4s are very close in speed to the single 1.6 G5s. Clock for clock, the G4s and G5s are of a roughly similar speed. The G5s have a number of advantages which do allow them to scale better than the G4s - not only are they able to reach higher clock speeds, but the speed difference between clock speeds is maintained... e.g. a 2.5 Ghz G5 is 25% faster in clockspeed than a 2.0ghz G5, and works roughly 25% faster.

MOTOs problems with the G4s FSB and scaling the G4 does not, in itself, make the G4 bad. Its a very good chip. An elegantly designed chip.

Tell you what. If I could get a choice between a dual G4 running at 3ghz tomorrow and a dual G5 running at 2.5ghz, I'd certainly consider the G4 - especially given its better altivec performance.