Powerbooks in September?

[jbomber]

Originally posted by shecky
What i am really, REALLY preparing to be pissed off about is Apple releasing a 15" in mid to late september, right after i started my classes and outside of my return/exchange period for the laptop that i must have by sept 10th. I can only belive Apple is NOT playing the card of forcing students to buy out these tibooks, knowing they must get it by a certain date, in order to clear out inventory before releaseing a new AlBook revision. Please tell me you are not doing that, Apple.

I love apple, the current TiBook is a great product, and its at a very good price right now and its certainly adiquate for my needs. I am hard pressed to commit now when i know something is coming down the line. I am very dissapointed in this aspect of Apple's business...10+ months for a revision is flat out ridiculous and i am getting annoyed that they are holding off on a new release. So long as i can have a new AlBook in my hands a few days before classes start I will be happy, but i could do without the uncertainty Apple is in some ways forcing on me.

I hear you, but I'm afraid at this point, Apple's probably doing exactly what you fear. It seems incredibly doubtful that the new processors will be ready to go before mid/late-august and the actual books themselves can't start shipping before 1) the G5s ship in early september, and 2) the educational promo has expired. Apple probably won't announce the new powerbooks in advance, because that'll only further slow sales of the current powerbooks that they're trying to unload. Prepare to sit on your hands for another month or so.

 

[job]

Originally posted by jbomber
Prepare to sit on your hands for another month or so.

I don't understand what everyone's complaining about.

All these extra months simply gives me more time to save more cash to blow on a fully loaded 12" when the eventual update finally arrives.

(I'm kidding. Except for the whole 'saving money' part. I'm serious. Sorta.)

 

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by shecky
i attend a high end design school and all of the design & architecture students (eg. NOT fine art students) other than a few specific programs are required, not requested, REQUIRED to purchase PowerBooks. I would say around 65% of the entire school participates in this "laptop program" and of that 65%, 85% are on Powerbooks, the others use Dell (mostly for CAD type stuff)

I am in graphic design and the spec for this September is the top of the line 15" SuperDrive PowerBook. The issue i am having is that if i am going to spend $2500 on a laptop thats going to go for 3 years, I damn well want the current, most up to date model. and since i am sure that a rev is imminent, i am extremely hesitant to buy soemthing now only to find a revision a week later.

What i am really, REALLY preparing to be pissed off about is Apple releasing a 15" in mid to late september, right after i started my classes and outside of my return/exchange period for the laptop that i must have by sept 10th. I can only belive Apple is NOT playing the card of forcing students to buy out these tibooks, knowing they must get it by a certain date, in order to clear out inventory before releaseing a new AlBook revision. Please tell me you are not doing that, Apple.

I love apple, the current TiBook is a great product, and its at a very good price right now and its certainly adiquate for my needs. I am hard pressed to commit now when i know something is coming down the line. I am very dissapointed in this aspect of Apple's business...10+ months for a revision is flat out ridiculous and i am getting annoyed that they are holding off on a new release. So long as i can have a new AlBook in my hands a few days before classes start I will be happy, but i could do without the uncertainty Apple is in some ways forcing on me.

well, i have a solution for you. maybe.

since the keynote is on September 16th, they won't be announced in time for your back to school needs... but... CompUSA... if they have a 30-day exchange or return thingy... you could get a 15" like the 9th or something, and then if PowerBooks are announced in september, you can order one of those and take your 15" back to compUSA when you get the new one. not sure if CompUSA even offers this kinda deal or not, but it's at least worth checking into since i would bet that is what Apple is doing... that and theyc an't really announce them any sooner.

 

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by job
I don't understand what everyone's complaining about.

All these extra months simply gives me more time to save more cash to blow on a fully loaded 12" when the eventual update finally arrives.

(I'm kidding. Except for the whole 'saving money' part. I'm serious. Sorta.)

I mean really, just wait it out.

Apple has delived before, just wait it out.

There good.

Save a little more money and we will all be good.

 

[cb911]

i don't understand why the G5 PowerMacs would have to be released before the new PowerBooks could come out. i mean they are in a completely different league. the PowerMacs have a G5 and the PowerBooks will still only have about a 1.3GHz G4. that's assuming that the new PowerBooks will still use a G4...


either way, i'm sick of waiting so i'm probably just going to get a 1GHz TiBook.

 

[shecky]

i have to belive that Apple is not releasing a new rev for a good reason. It may not be a good reason to ME, but i am sure its a good reason to THEM:

-chips not ready from Moto
-enclosures not ready from wherever
-waiting to sell out more current hardware
-waiting for Panther install out of the box
-waiting for new fiscal quarter/year/whatever
-waiting for post education back to school sales (tho i don't know why)
-waiting for another major software/hardware/whatever announcement to coincide with updates

regardless of what the real reason is, i am sure its a REAL reason. Apple is not arbitrarily saying "nahh...... let's hold off. just a hunch." i truly belive that is NOT why we are all still waiting. Nevertheless, i am frustrated. Things like Bluetooth, DDR bus, AE, etc... are important to a power user like me. and hence worth waiting for.

As far as the CompUSA suggestion goes, i work there part-time so i get cost on anything in the store. I can probbabbly stretch the 14 day return policy a bit if i need to...BUT there are 2 problems with buying from CompUSA for me

1. even at my employee cost, i can STILL get a current model tibook cheaper thru an education outlet, aditionally, i do not think i pay state sales tax either (i do not know if this will or will not hold true on a 15" AlBook)

2. i get a $200 mail-in-rebate when i buy a laptop with an iPod from education outlets only. CompUSA does not qualify for this. (again, we will see if a 15" AlBook counts towards this or not)

 

[bambam1648]

PB at Univ.

I would concure. I work as a system admin at a law school and we were looking at the whole line. After seeing that most of the current students have PB we recomend them over the iBooks to incoming students. The 12' on the low end is at a great price point for students on a budget as most students budget at least 1300-1400 dollars for a new laptop for school. Also the Univ. is private and the student generally are pretty well off so it is not suprising that most of our students have PB's.

 

[Abstract]

I really don't care to see the 15" PB in the Alu case. I don't. I don't need a big, flashy introduction, or a Keynote. I just need a date. Its vain to leave semi-large updates for Keynotes and such in order to see his image projected on a screen. They're not introducing a new case design. They're just making the 15" up-to-date in comparison to the other 2 PB models.


I need a date. I need Apple to start selling these machines right now and have their orders deliverable by this particular date, whether it's in September or October, even if they're not ready yet at this moment. A date is better than speculation.

If Steve-o doesn't announce them in September, I'll kick him in the nuts (if I can find them). Yes, you heard me.

 

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I think everyone needs to stop taking the "year of the notebook" statement so seriously. You may think that Steve Jobs is God, but he is not. Just because he said doesn't mean it is true. I think the statement was just a distraction for the six months between MWSF and WWDC and the G5.

why should we stop taking their statement seriously? They made a special point to say that it was the year of the laptop 6 months ago and damnit im going to hold them to it. some think hes a god, but judging by the disapointment this year, hes the anti christ right now to me. i have yet to blown away or even inspired to buy anything this year except for the 30gb ipod. anti christ, i love that ipod.

 

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
why should we stop taking their statement seriously? They made a special point to say that it was the year of the laptop 6 months ago and damnit im going to hold them to it. some think hes a god, but judging by the disapointment this year, hes the anti christ right now to me. i have yet to blown away or even inspired to buy anything this year except for the 30gb ipod. anti christ, i love that ipod.

maybe he meant year of the notebook as in sales... cause so far he would be right. they are a huge part of it.

 

[Analog Kid]

My guess? Apple expected to be able to introduce a 15" AlBook with the other two, but then realized they couldn't improve the processor speed so decided that the 12" and 17" chassis were worth releasing, but it wasn't worth the cost of yet another 15" model in distribution. From here, all the Powerbooks will get updated together.

Can't update without faster chips...

I wish people would stop insisting that Apple has to release a G5 Powerbook. That's absurd... You're saying that Apple can't release a fast desktop unless they can cram the same power into a laptop. We've gotten used to near-parity because the G4's have nothing else to offer but low power-- this isn't a normal situation.

I feel for the students though that have a firm deadline. All I can suggest is that we're pretty sure the next rev will still be G4's with a modest speed bump so you're not missing out on too much... I've got a 1GHz Ti and love it. I'm an engineer and use it for simulation work and it performs admirably for a laptop.

If you're out of time, take the price difference between what you'll buy a 1GHz machine for and what you'd have to spend on the next rev and put that into RAM. You'll probably do almost as well...

I think this is out of Apple's hands. An update would be pointless without a 7457, and they're not going to overhang sales on their biggest sellers by pre-announcing.

 

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
maybe he meant year of the notebook as in sales... cause so far he would be right. they are a huge part of it.

That's my guess, but I can't remember the context of the statement...

It's also possible that they thought the G5 systems would be lower power at the time and things turned out differently.

Either way, I think the Powerbook has done well this year. Sales have saved the company and we've got two new models. I think the complaints are based on people using rumors to set their expectations...

 

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by shecky
i attend a high end design school and all of the design & architecture students (eg. NOT fine art students) other than a few specific programs are required, not requested, REQUIRED to purchase PowerBooks. I would say around 65% of the entire school participates in this "laptop program" and of that 65%, 85% are on Powerbooks, the others use Dell (mostly for CAD type stuff)

Wait, so you attend the school, or you're going to be attending the school since you are going to be buying a PB (like you already don't have one if its required and you're attending)?

My college has a high-end design program and powerbooks are required too, but a "high-end" powerbook isn't totally needed- they always just list whatever is the best. Design schools hardly make up most college students anyways, and probably make up 1% of my school's population.

 

[Dragonneyes]

Originally posted by shecky
The issue i am having is that if i am going to spend $2500 on a laptop thats going to go for 3 years, I damn well want the current, most up to date model. and since i am sure that a rev is imminent, i am extremely hesitant to buy soemthing now only to find a revision a week later.

I am very dissapointed in this aspect of Apple's business...10+ months for a revision is flat out ridiculous and i am getting annoyed that they are holding off on a new release. So long as i can have a new AlBook in my hands a few days before classes start I will be happy, but i could do without the uncertainty Apple is in some ways forcing on me.

I would totally agree with this statement. First off, just because I'm not taking up a major that is heavy in graphic design or digital video editing (in fact, my international affairs major would never utilize any of those) doesn't mean I'm not going to want a PB. I would never buy myself an iBook, simply because they are just too slow for any type of heavier, serious usage. I run into issues with my boyfriend's brand new iB, as far as speed goes, even when just running a few programs. The G3 is just not good enough.

On the other hand, a G4 is. I am completely content with it, and I hope that Apple gets some sense and realizes that the 15" is a great option for college students - even ones like me that don't have rich parents, and are buying it themselves. A release in September would be ludicrous.

 

[McLaptop]

over on appleinsider, salty chips posts a source that suggests pb revision will happen mid august. any thoughts on this?



wow. waiting for a new powerbook. watching alien vi on it by the time it comes out ...

 

[Billicus]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I think everyone needs to stop taking the "year of the notebook" statement so seriously. You may think that Steve Jobs is God, but he is not. Just because he said doesn't mean it is true. I think the statement was just a distraction for the six months between MWSF and WWDC and the G5.

Why say it at all then? Seriously. Why give all the hype to their laptop models, saying this would be the year of the laptop if they were going to twiddle their thumbs and not do anything about it after they released the 12" and 17" PowerBook models. And when was the last time they updated the iBooks? It seems to me that they went a little overboard with the comment about this being the year of the notebook if that wasn't going to be their main area of focuse for the rest of the year.

 

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by Billicus
Why say it at all then? Seriously. Why give all the hype to their laptop models, saying this would be the year of the laptop if they were going to twiddle their thumbs and not do anything about it after they released the 12" and 17" PowerBook models. And when was the last time they updated the iBooks? It seems to me that they went a little overboard with the comment about this being the year of the notebook if that wasn't going to be their main area of focuse for the rest of the year.

It was just a marketing distraction in order to take attention away from the dismal PowerMac sales. Nothing really more.

I want new PowerBooks too, it is just that after 7 months the primary justification can't be "well Steve said it was the year of the notebook so it must be coming this Tuesday." Every Tuesday since MWSF someone has said this and they all have been wrong.

 

[job]

Of course, like other users have already noted, the now legendary phrase may have something do to with the fact that laptop sales are now reaching parity with desktops.

 

[jzieske]

Originally posted by job
Of course, like other users have already noted, the now legendary phrase may have something do to with the fact that laptop sales are now reaching parity with desktops.

I think that has something to do with it. I mean never has a computer company's laptop sales matched it dektops that I know of. So in that respect it is "the year of the laptop"

 

[wizard]

Legendary or not the reality is that laptop sales are booming for all manufactures in the market. Apples long standing problem is a Power MAC desktop that did not compete. The fact that their laptops did very well against those offered with Intel hardware reall drove the sales of PowerBooks.

For many a portable does not have to be a high performance machine. A stationary machine, for some, needs to be state of the art perofrmance wise. So it is almost a given that we saw Power MACs tank and Powerbooks soar.

The very real problem Apple has now is regaining credibility. The G5 will not fullfill the role of convincing people that Apple is back on track. Credibility is something that is going to take sometime to reestablish and they will have to show some concern for customer needs.

I find it impossible to believe that Apple spent much time thinking about the customer when they designed the G5. Even if the mythical workstation MAC makes an appearance, and they drop the price signifcantly on the PowerMAC G5 I'd still be in a position of wondering just to whom they are marketing the machine.

To be honest, I'm very tempted by the tought of a laptop as my next machine. But Apple is again in a position of needing a significant jump in performance to keep up with the rest of the Market. Thus this very long wait for the new PowerBooks. On a G4 this would probally mean a jump to 1.6 GHz or so. Anything less would not be competitive. I'd love a 970 based machine also, but it really needs to maintaint the good things found in a PowerBook, one of those being battery life.

Thanks
Dave

Originally posted by job
Of course, like other users have already noted, the now legendary phrase may have something do to with the fact that laptop sales are now reaching parity with desktops.

 

[job]

Originally posted by wizard
The G5 will not fullfill the role of convincing people that Apple is back on track.

Maybe, maybe not, however it is nevertheless a step in the right direction. Modern I/O and hardware along with a price/performance ratio that even Wintel users can stomach will allow Apple to convince most people that Apple is here to stay (as long as the G5s ship on time. )

I find it impossible to believe that Apple spent much time thinking about the customer when they designed the G5.

Why not? They took some of the worst flaws in the MDD design (noise) and even some new issues (heat) and were able to design a machine that's quieter and more powerful with better heat management. I'd say that certainly shows some thought.

Thus this very long wait for the new PowerBooks. On a G4 this would probally mean a jump to 1.6 GHz or so. Anything less would not be competitive.

**Sigh**

Does Mhz really matter?

I think Macbidoobie p) is close to the mark on their Powerbook report. 1.1 to 1.3Ghz Powerbooks with standard tech across the line. The current 1.25/1.42Ghz G4s are far too hot and consume far too much power to make them viable candidates for the Powerbooks. There is no way a Powerbook is going to hit 1.6Ghz on a .18 or even .13 G4. 1.3~1.4 maybe. Not 1.6. Heck, I'd consider a 12" Albook with a 1.1Ghz G4 and a 200Mhz bus to be a decent upgrade.

I'd love a 970 based machine also, but it really needs to maintaint the good things found in a PowerBook, one of those being battery life.

I don't think we'll see a 970 based laptop before 2004. Look how long it took the G4 to make it to the Powerbooks.

 

[macnews]

Ok, this is just plain stupid.

1. The whole idea (as I have said before) of waiting for new anything is crap. They don't need a speed bump to update (if they wouldn't have waited so long, see 4 below). From all the posts I have seen people would have been happy with new features that the 12 and 17 have. Need to wait for old enclosures to run out - this is NOT TRUE, promise 100% accurate. How do I know this? Think about it... back in Nov Apple new it would be launching Al PB, for whatever reason the 15 would be left behind. But they could at least start using up or planning on using up their supply of Ti enclosures. Say this didn't happen until January, not Nov. What business (not to mention a high tech business) would keep more than 6 months of inventory around? This is a financial killer. High tech business normally don't have more than 60 days of inventory due to rapid advancements. This arguement is just crap, can we please stop using it as a "reason" why a new 15" PB has not seen the light of day?

2. Year of the laptop. Let's assume Steve was talking about sales on this one. Sales were up and laptops accounted for 46% of their hardware sales. W/O any new updates in any PB line for 6 months (soon to be 6+ at least) I bet you will see this number drop for the last quarter. Hardly a good way to claim a year of the laptop. I would go for just a marketing ploy which would be a major flop given the lack of updates and how it may end up hurting laptop sales - look at how many people are waiting for updates. I know of a few people who gave up and are buying the G5 instead and some potential switchers are going with Dells for back to school.

3. Back to school/general laptop market. While the PB may not be their main EDU buy it is some of the market, why give it up? More importantly, the PB line is more aimed at pro users who are also lured by the new G5. This group has been waiting for a few YEARS for a major update to the desktop line (ok, maybe not yearS) and I am betting most of them will be buying DESKTOPS not laptops. I know a few pro designers that already have a 15Tibook that is 1-2 years old but are sitting with a desktop that is 3-4 years old. They are going to get a new G5 but why get a new laptop? Even if it is updated to the 17" specs (including speed) it would be worth waiting a year to see if a G5 is dropped in the line.

4. Why it is wrong to delay the 15" update. You introduce the 12 and 17 Al PBs. Ohhs and ahhs. People are waiting for the 15" Al and desktop updates. You then introduce the G5 desktop - more ohhs and ahhs, but no 15" update. The 15" has now gone 7 months with no changes, 12 months since the last "major" updates. Finally in August or Sept. the new 15"AlPB is shown (sans a G5 processor). While 2-3 months ago people would have been happy with no or a small speed bump, the introduction of the G5 has fueled their need for speed. Now, a 1.3Ghz G4 doesn't cut it plus they are speculating a G5 release in January. At the very least, people are guessing a G5 would have to arrive by July in the PB line. Sales drop for laptops. Not a good thing for something that makes up 46% of your total hardware sales.

Apple is in a bad position with their laptops. Steve was/is right about how people are looking at laptops more vs desktops. Right now, the PB line is in the same spot the desktop line was before the G5 - limbo. Some might disagree but what did the 12" and 17" do? They didn't boost performance that much. Their main reason was to increase the market reach for the PB line - one reason being to replace the desktop (17") thus the "year of the laptop" statement.

If Apple doesn't introduce a new 15" before July 31, the odds of a G5 appearing in January will most likely be reduced - hurting sales. Apple is almost creating their own "performance" (mghz) myth. Ex. How good can the G3 ibook be when there is the G4 powerbook, but how good can the G4 powerbook be when there is a G5 out there? Sure, laptop chip are not (at least right now) the same as the desktop even on the PC side. But it does effect buyers' impressions.

Sorry for the long rant but I had to get it off my chest. I love my mac and want a laptop. I just am dreading a possible rerun of the past year and half like the desktop line - only in laptops.

 

[bokdol]

Originally posted by shecky
i attend a high end design school and all of the design & architecture students (eg. NOT fine art students) other than a few specific programs are required, not requested, REQUIRED to purchase PowerBooks. I would say around 65% of the entire school participates in this "laptop program" and of that 65%, 85% are on Powerbooks, the others use Dell (mostly for CAD type stuff)

haha sounds like rhode island.... they had all there kids buy laptops. i had graduated before the required buy 3 grand worth of laptop and programs

 

[shecky]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Wait, so you attend the school, or you're going to be attending the school since you are going to be buying a PB (like you already don't have one if its required and you're attending)?

i go to the school now, you do a freshman year foundation priogram, and then get into your actual major in your 2nd year, then you buy your laptop specific to that major. I am going into my 2nd year in september.

 

[shecky]

Originally posted by bokdol
haha sounds like rhode island.... they had all there kids buy laptops. i had graduated before the required buy 3 grand worth of laptop and programs

sounds like.............and is indeed RISD.