Powered Thunderbolt 4 Hub or Monitor for Extra Inputs?

[SparkyCanada]

Hello Everyone.

I currently have a Mac Mini M2 connected to a Dell Monitor.

The Dell Monitor has additional inputs which I use for external SSD’s

I have been considering an external powered thunderbolt 4 hub like the ones from OWC

Will I see a difference in performance with the hub for my SSD’s and potentially any other add ons in the future?

Is there any reason to not use my monitor as extra inputs compared to an external powered thunderbolt 4 hub?

Thanks

Sparky

 

[SparkyCanada]

Just bumping this up... was hoping to understand this a bit better before spending any money on an external powered hub...

Thanks,

Sparky

 

[drrich2]

I can't tell you; I may be able to suggest some additional info. that may help someone else.

1.) What Thunderbolt specification does the Dell monitor support? It may help to tell us which Dell monitor, model #, and provide a link to it (such as on Amazon).

2.) I take it these are Thunderbolt external SSD drives you're using? What Thunderbolt specification are they? It may be helpful to mention the brand and model number and provide a link to a product page on it. Were these bought as one unit, or did you buy enclosures and put internal SSDs in them?

3.) Can you tell us what tasks you're doing that are giving you slow performance?

4.) How big is your M2 Mac Mini's internal SSD? If it's large enough, have you tried putting media on it instead of the external SSD and opening or what-have-you to see if you can tell a difference? I'd be surprised if an external SSD outperformed you Mac's internal SSD.

 

[SparkyCanada]

Fair questions:

I can't tell you; I may be able to suggest some additional info. that may help someone else.

1.) What Thunderbolt specification does the Dell monitor support? It may help to tell us which Dell monitor, model #, and provide a link to it (such as on Amazon).

Here is the information from the Dell Minitor Manual:
Dell U2719DC User’s Guide
1 x DP 1.4 (HDCP 1.4)
1 x HDMI1.4 (HDCP 1.4)
1 x USB Type-C (Alternate mode with DisplayPort 1.4, USB 3.1 upstream port, Power Delivery PD up to 65 W) 1 x DP (Out) with MST (HDCP 1.4)
2 x USB 3.0 downstream port
2 x USB 3.0 with BC1.2 charging capability at 2A (max)
1 x Analog 2.0 audio line out (3.5mm jack)

2.) I take it these are Thunderbolt external SSD drives you're using? What Thunderbolt specification are they? It may be helpful to mention the brand and model number and provide a link to a product page on it. Were these bought as one unit, or did you buy enclosures and put internal SSDs in them?

I have 4 Samsung T5's
From their website:
Performance may vary depending on host configuration. To reach maximum transfer speeds of 540 MB/s, the host device and connection cables must support USB 3.1 Gen 2 and the UASP mode must be enabled.

3.) Can you tell us what tasks you're doing that are giving you slow performance?

Not 100% certain I am currently getting slow performance because I have nothing to compare it to. I think what I'm trying to decide is - will an external hub make things overall better - either short term or long term

I do use these SSD's for music recording and some video editing. Not a lot of video - just occasionally

4.) How big is your M2 Mac Mini's internal SSD? If it's large enough, have you tried putting media on it instead of the external SSD and opening or what-have-you to see if you can tell a difference? I'd be surprised if an external SSD outperformed you Mac's internal SSD.

The M2 has 1 TB of space. One of the recommendations from the audio software company is that the application should reside on the internal hard drive and the file sessions be on external drives. The audio software is Pro Tools. Also am storing VST instrumenbts on external drives because some of them take up a lot of space...


Thanks for any insight on this...

Sparky

 

[drrich2]

I think what I'm trying to decide is - will an external hub make things overall better - either short term or long term

It sounds to me like you're hooking USB-C external SSD drives to a Dell monitor with USB-C connectivity. The monitor manual online:

https://dl.dell.com/manuals/all-pro...y/dell-u2719dc-monitor_user's-guide_en-us.pdf

Scroll down to page 21 in that manual, and you see this:

Super speed 5 Gbps
High speed 480 Mbps
Full speed 12 Mbps

Your external SSD drives info. - "To reach maximum transfer speeds of 540 MB/s, the host device and connection cables must support USB 3.1 Gen 2 and the UASP mode must be enabled."

If 540 MB/s is the max., I imagine real world performance is somewhat lower.

So I Googled and turned up a Kingston site that notes:

"USB 3.1 Gen 1 vs USB 3.1 Gen 2

The difference between USB 3.1 Gen 1 and USB 3.1 Gen 2 is only in terms of speed. USB 3.1 Gen 1 supports speeds of up to 5Gbit/s while USB 3.1 Gen 2 supports speeds of up to 10Gbit/s."

Putting it altogether, I take it your monitor's USB-C port is USB 3.1 Gen 1, not Gen 2, and doesn't support your SSD's max. throughput in theory.

Note: recent versions of Thunderbolt can support much faster data throughput.

Suggestion: run the Black Magic Speed Test and tell us what read/write speeds you get for your external drives. This may give you some idea how your current performance compares to what your external drives are capable of.

Note: there's a fast way to see if a faster connection can do you much good. Your M2 Mac Mini has Thunderbolt 4 ports. I think those should handle much faster data throughput than your external SSD drives are capable of. Hook your SSD drives directly the the Mini's Thunderbolt 4 ports and run the Black Magic Speed Test, and compare to the Read/Write scores you got hooking to your monitor.

I doubt that HUB you're looking at is going to provide faster speeds than your Mini's internal Thunderbolt 4 ports, or that the external SSD drives you're using now can saturate either.

 

[SparkyCanada]

Great idea about using the Black Magic Speed Test drrich2

This is from the Dell Monitor

This is from the Mac Mini M2

Was not expecting this...

Sparky

 

[drrich2]

Then it's a question of where's the bottle neck in performance. If your M2 Mac Mini's Thunderbolt 4 connection didn't give an increase in speed, then the receiving end isn't the bottleneck, and I don't think the hub is going to help you with your current setup, or that your Dell monitor's hub functionality is limiting you.

That leaves 2 potential culprits (to my mind; lots of people on this board know far more than I do about the Mac realm); the SSD drives themselves, or the cables.

Not all USB-C cables are created equal, as discussed in this PCWorld article. I wouldn't go buy an expensive USB-C cable just to test, but if you happen to have some extra, particularly new USB-C cables laying around, it might be worth re-running your test with a newer one, running directly to your M2 Mac Mini out of curiosity.

Bottom Line: I don't think a Thunderbolt Hub, or anything else, is going to make a big difference in the performance of your external SSDs, which I suspect to be the performance bottleneck in your setup.

-------------

An SSD drive made for a much faster data transfer rate connected via Thunderbolt 3 or 4 cable to your M2 Mac Mini (directly or via a good Thunderbolt hub) could deliver transfers a good deal faster than what you've got now, but depending on your workflow and wait times I don't know how much good it'd do you, and those things aren't cheap.

On the recommendation of another forum member I picked up a Samsung T7 external SSD with about double the data transfer rating you listed, 4-terabytes for about $200, as of moments ago still available at that price, and I'm running it as the startup disc on my 2017 27" iMac which is now obviously zippier than it was with the original Fusion Drive. Check it out.

 

[SparkyCanada]

Then it's a question of where's the bottle neck in performance. If your M2 Mac Mini's Thunderbolt 4 connection didn't give an increase in speed, then the receiving end isn't the bottleneck, and I don't think the hub is going to help you with your current setup, or that your Dell monitor's hub functionality is limiting you.

That leaves 2 potential culprits (to my mind; lots of people on this board know far more than I do about the Mac realm); the SSD drives themselves, or the cables.

Not all USB-C cables are created equal, as discussed in this PCWorld article. I wouldn't go buy an expensive USB-C cable just to test, but if you happen to have some extra, particularly new USB-C cables laying around, it might be worth re-running your test with a newer one, running directly to your M2 Mac Mini out of curiosity.

Bottom Line: I don't think a Thunderbolt Hub, or anything else, is going to make a big difference in the performance of your external SSDs, which I suspect to be the performance bottleneck in your setup.

-------------

An SSD drive made for a much faster data transfer rate connected via Thunderbolt 3 or 4 cable to your M2 Mac Mini (directly or via a good Thunderbolt hub) could deliver transfers a good deal faster than what you've got now, but depending on your workflow and wait times I don't know how much good it'd do you, and those things aren't cheap.

On the recommendation of another forum member I picked up a Samsung T7 external SSD with about double the data transfer rating you listed, 4-terabytes for about $200, as of moments ago still available at that price, and I'm running it as the startup disc on my 2017 27" iMac which is now obviously zippier than it was with the original Fusion Drive. Check it out.

Thank you so much for helping me through this - I really do appreciate all the knowledge!

Based on the speed results - I think unless I start to struggle with speed/processing issues in my workflow - it would appear that I should just leave well enough alone for now... (thinking about that T7 drive now... )

Never would have thought a monitor would serve as a viable hub...

Thanks again,

Sparky