PowerMac G3 350MHz B&W!!

[RedCroissant]

I received this via Cragislist today and it's awesome. I was the only person that showed any interest in it so the seller decided to give it to me for FREE!! I got the machine, power cable, white wired Apple keyboard, original installation CD with OS 8 on it, the OS 9 updates, and a few games: Burning Monkey Solitaire, Mars Rising, and Warcraft III Reign of Chaos!

It booted up just fine to OS 9.2 with its original 6GB HDD (I'm going to upgrade that to a 120GB soon) and a CD-ROM (which I will also upgrade to a DVD drive from the DELL Vostro that I have. The it will be time to put some games on there.

So if anyone knows where I can get The Journeyman Project for ULTRA cheap or as part of a trade, please let me know. This is fun!

 

[eyoungren]

Congratulations!

Those were the hot rod design Macs the new hires at the Desert Sun were getting (in 1999). I was stuck on some beige box (not even a G3).

Still very cool systems!

 

[Nermal]

Nice. I used to have the 400 MHz but it died a few years ago

A word of warning about upgrading to a DVD drive: I found that mine wouldn't boot from a third-party drive. I ended up putting my drive in a FireWire case, which in turn requires the "Authoring Support" update for OS 9.

 

[RedCroissant]

Congratulations!

Those were the hot rod design Macs the new hires at the Desert Sun were getting (in 1999). I was stuck on some beige box (not even a G3).

Still very cool systems!

I wanted this solely for classic gaming. So when I saw this I had to sow interest and it worked out in my favor. Plus the guy also gave me some classic games as well! Completely fun. Now I'm making the serious rounds through myabandonware and the like to find some treasures.

Nice. I used to have the 400 MHz but it died a few years ago

A word of warning about upgrading to a DVD drive: I found that mine wouldn't boot from a third-party drive. I ended up putting my drive in a FireWire case, which in turn requires the "Authoring Support" update for OS 9.

Thanks for the tip! SO I think I'll just upgrade it then without booting from the upgraded optical drive and just use that for loading DVD games when I can.

 

[Nermal]

It's probably worth trying to boot from it; it might have just been a weird incompatibility with my particular drive. But don't be surprised if it doesn't work

 

[Dane D.]

"It booted up just fine to OS 9.2 with its original 6GB HDD (I'm going to upgrade that to a 120GB soon) and a CD-ROM (which I will also upgrade to a DVD drive from the DELL Vostro that I have. The it will be time to put some games on there."

Be careful with non-Apple stuff. I might have a extra DVD-ROM drive from a G4 at work, I can check, we have some collecting dust.

I love my G3, see sig., Put another HD in it and dual boot OS X, thats what I did. Max the RAM, 1GB. I have lots of old games for OS 9 too.

 

[RedCroissant]

It's probably worth trying to boot from it; it might have just been a weird incompatibility with my particular drive. But don't be surprised if it doesn't work

Well I will try it but if it doesn't work, couldn't I just flash the firmware onto the drive to make it work? Most likely not but it would be nice. The funny thing is that I found a n older DVD-ROM drive in Goodwill YESTERDAY that I didn't grab because I had no use for it. LAME.

"It booted up just fine to OS 9.2 with its original 6GB HDD (I'm going to upgrade that to a 120GB soon) and a CD-ROM (which I will also upgrade to a DVD drive from the DELL Vostro that I have. The it will be time to put some games on there."

Be careful with non-Apple stuff. I might have a extra DVD-ROM drive from a G4 at work, I can check, we have some collecting dust.

I love my G3, see sig., Put another HD in it and dual boot OS X, thats what I did. Max the RAM, 1GB. I have lots of old games for OS 9 too.

Well, awesome if you have extras of whatever I might need for this! That is a good idea to dual boot but that involves some extra cost for the RAM at least to max it out because right now it has 256MB. What I think would be fun (since this can play MANY games that I like and want to revisit. What I am considering now though is going to 2 machines...Maxing out my Powerbook G4 and using that as my primary machine and then maxing out the G3 and using that as a fun desktop for a bunch of educational software that I have now and games.

What do you guys think of that?

 

[Nermal]

Well I will try it but if it doesn't work, couldn't I just flash the firmware onto the drive to make it work?

That would only work if it's the same model as an official Apple drive.

 

[bunnspecial]

I've had issues with DVD drives causing random freezes and other problems in B&Ws, aside from the non-booting issue.

The architecture on these is sort of weird( @LightBulbFun can probably explain it in more depth than I can) . They are NWR Macs, but of course retain ADB and some other "legacy" quirks from the beige G3s that proceeded them. The USB ports are USB 1.0 and not 1.1 (unlike later computers). They use the same processors as the beiges(albeit with a faster system), and in fact when I've upgraded B&Ws to G4s I've often migrated their faster processors to beige machines.

Additional, bear in mind that if you have a "Rev A" model, the primary ATA bus is unreliable with more than one HDD.

If you're buying it to game, I suggest an upgrade from the stock Rage 128 video card. Radeon 7000s are reasonable, and Radeon 9200s are great when you can find them. I'm running an FX5200 in one of mine(with a G4 upgrade) which gives core image support but at a cost of real OS 9 support.

Remember that if you need RAM, you MUST use low density 256mb sticks-high density sticks will be register at half capacity. I've had a small war with one particular seller from whom I've purchased 20 claimed low density sticks that were delivered as high density. The seller refunded one purchase, and I'm sure would have the first if I'd opened it in time, but still it's a hassle to do it and they still vehemently claim it to be low density(HD 256mb sticks are no use to me, since any Mac that will read a high density 256mb stick at full capacity can use an LD 512mb, and I'm going to use a 512mb instead).

 

[blut haus]

So if anyone knows where I can get The Journeyman Project for ULTRA cheap or as part of a trade, please let me know. This is fun!

I have a still shrink wrapped copy, but that's not being sold...ever . I'm sure you can find a copy cheap. I think Macintosh garden has it...but don't quote me on that.

 

[redhatcode29]

I received this via Cragislist today and it's awesome. I was the only person that showed any interest in it so the seller decided to give it to me for FREE!! I got the machine, power cable, white wired Apple keyboard, original installation CD with OS 8 on it, the OS 9 updates, and a few games: Burning Monkey Solitaire, Mars Rising, and Warcraft III Reign of Chaos!

It booted up just fine to OS 9.2 with its original 6GB HDD (I'm going to upgrade that to a 120GB soon) and a CD-ROM (which I will also upgrade to a DVD drive from the DELL Vostro that I have. The it will be time to put some games on there.

So if anyone knows where I can get The Journeyman Project for ULTRA cheap or as part of a trade, please let me know. This is fun!

You got it for free... Thats awesome. U guys are so lucky to be able to get Macs from CG.

I came across one of these locally, did not deal in time.... Gone! Never a B&W again! Have fun.

 

[RedCroissant]

I have a still shrink wrapped copy, but that's not being sold...ever . I'm sure you can find a copy cheap. I think Macintosh garden has it...but don't quote me on that.

Fine! That is such a great collection of games and I love them. I'll check!

 

[DZ/015]

The Journeyman Project has been removed from Macintosh Garden. It is available for sale for OS X if you install tiger, however. Specs on the website say you need 10.4 or later, PPC or Intel Click Me.

 

[RedCroissant]

The Journeyman Project has been removed from Macintosh Garden. It is available for sale for OS X if you install tiger, however. Specs on the website say you need 10.4 or later, PPC or Intel Click Me.

Thank you, DZ. Yeah I found that website and played the new demo as well and it looks good so I might actually end up buying it at some point.

 

[Nermal]

JP1 is on GOG too, although it's for newer machines. GOG also has 2 and 3, but only for Windows.

Edit: Apparently it's changed a bit since the original version. I haven't played any of them apart from the demo of 3 (which came with Riven) so I can't say how different it is.

 

[happyfrappy]

I've had issues with DVD drives causing random freezes and other problems in B&Ws, aside from the non-booting issue.

The architecture on these is sort of weird( @LightBulbFun can probably explain it in more depth than I can) . They are NWR Macs, but of course retain ADB and some other "legacy" quirks from the beige G3s that proceeded them. The USB ports are USB 1.0 and not 1.1 (unlike later computers). They use the same processors as the beiges(albeit with a faster system), and in fact when I've upgraded B&Ws to G4s I've often migrated their faster processors to beige machines.

Apple used a custom firmware on Beige/B&W/G4 CD/DVD/DVDRW drives to support bootable discs, it was only until OS 9.1(or Digital Audio PowerMac G4) that Apple shifted to more mainstream Pioneer drives which could be re-flashed for OS 9/iTunes/Disc burn support.

Another warning is B&W PowerMac G3/Yikes G4 are like trayloader iMacs which were a hybrid New World ROM, you need to install the OS within the first 8GB or your OS might become unbootable if you don't partition.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I may as well input some one this... I have gotten away with using PC DVD drives in my PPC macs without any boot issues etc wether it be a G3 beige G3 blue and white or a Sawtooth. second thing is the 8GB boot limit only applies to the Heathrow ATA and older controllers the G3 BW and Yikes use the CMD646 controller witch does not suffer from this bug. the G3 blue and white and the Yikes G4 are first gen NWR macs although they have Firewire... they have a lot more in common with the Non FireWire NWR macs stuck at panther then the newer FW macs running tiger and beyond. (the only exception to this is the FireWire-less slot loader iMac its uninorth based but stuck at panther) the G3 Blue and white and G4 Yikes are one of the Few Grackle based macs to run tiger natively all other native tiger Macs are Uninorth based and have a much better architecture and open firmware implantation then the first gen NWR Macs as i call them (the iMac G3 tray loader Lombard iBook G3 clamshell-non-fw, G3 Blue and white and G4 Yikes are all what i call first gen NWR macs while technically NWR they have a lot of OWR quirks to em) another thing its commonly said that the first gen NWR macs dont have a boot selector like when you hold option well I discovered on those macs if you boot into open firmware and type "multi-boot" and hit enter it will generate a crude text based but workable list of bootable volumes in the mac I found this out while playing with my G3 BW rev A unit, then thanks to @MacCubed and his lombard I was able to test this on a Lombard and the Lombard has a strange GUI boot selector but not like the normal PPC one (the lombard one looks like OS9 a lot more then the one we are used to) then finally thanks to @tevion5 and his Lime green tray loader I was able to test this on a tray loading iMac and from what i can tell it has the same crude text boot selector as my B W G3 (I do not have access to a first gen clamshell to try this on sadly) from what i can tell no one has documented this hidden boot menu in the first gen Grakle NWR macs heh I hope this all makes sense I am not so good at putting things on text LOL

 

[RedCroissant]

JP1 is on GOG too, although it's for newer machines. GOG also has 2 and 3, but only for Windows.

Edit: Apparently it's changed a bit since the original version. I haven't played any of them apart from the demo of 3 (which came with Riven) so I can't say how different it is.

I saw that and the beginning bit is different and it looks like the game itself has been changed in order to take advantage of newer technology. When I have the money I make take the plunge but right now I think I'll just enjoy what I have.

 

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of G3 Blue and whites I fitted a G4 to mine and promptly got Leopard 10.5.8 running on it (using my patched image since Leopard is missing drivers for the G3 BW)

 

[bunnspecial]

speaking of G3 Blue and whites I fitted a G4 to mine and promptly got Leopard 10.5.8 running on it (using my patched image since Leopard is missing drivers for the G3 BW)

View attachment 610671

I also have Leopard running on a B&W using an install image that @LightBulbFun gave me.

That particular image is on an HDD that I hope to eventually get working in an 8600 also. Dez tells me it should work, although I've been VERY lazily dragging my feet on trying it(I have a bad RAM stick that makes Tiger very unstable with a G4, and somewhat unstable with the original 604e). I need to spend some time sorting my EDO RAM(I have tons of it, most with unknown capacities), or just bite the bullet and order 1gb from OWC.

BTW, I can confirm that B&Ws are 100% okay with OS X anywhere in the first 128gb of the drive using the built-in ATA controller. A firmware-compatible ATA(or SATA) card removes the 128gb cap on all PPC Macs so hindered, as well as the 8gb OSX cap present on beige machines. This is my preferred solution where possible.

 

[pc297]

Hi all, sorry to revive a 5-year old thread, but is there anything to configure to get QE and CI working on the 5200 under leopard with a B&W @ 500 MHz? All quite stable by replacing conflicting kexts as well as injecting missing kexts from WWDC2006, but graphically a bit more sluggish than in Tiger, under which QE and CI are enabled by default on the PCI GF5200. How does one check that they are enabled without the KP in System Profiler/Graphics/Display? I have no transparency in the menu bar so my guess is that at least CI is not enabled, and Xbench scores for graphics are lower than on Tiger. DVD playback is also a bit sluggish (perfect under Tiger).

Do I need to apply the QE/CI patch for PCI cards (which wasn't needed in Tiger)?

Would enabling QuartzGL with OSX86tools be of any help?

Cheers,

 

[Amethyst1]

See my answer in your other post. The FX5200 does not support CI.

 

[B S Magnet]

See my answer in your other post. The FX5200 does not support CI.

This. The FX 5200 in my G5 isn’t CI-supported.

 

[pc297]

This. The FX 5200 in my G5 isn’t CI-supported.

Thanks for your answers! I would have another question for you guys:

I have an OWC G4 ZIF rated at 550 MHz (xpc7410rx550pe) that I had been using in a Beige G3 at 533 MHz on the 66 Mhz bus (8x multiplier). It ran flawlessly (except perhaps that I couldn't update to 10.4.11 due to CPUDirector not being supported).

However, when migrating it to the B&W (firmware G4-unlocked), I first started at 550 MHz on the 100 MHz bus and although the system boots up, there are several graphical artefacts (missing text, corrupted images) both on Tiger and OS9, and the system invariably hangs within minutes after reaching the desktop. I first thought of the cache speed which I reduced from 1:2 to 1:3 but to no avail. I now run it at 500 MHz on the B&W with 100 MHz bus speed (5x) with the cache at 1:2 speed and it runs flawlessly.

I am cooling it with a socket 7 heatsink and fan and it does not seem to get hot.

My question is: I have previously read somewhere - but cannot find it again for the life of me - that original G4 chips (7400s and 7410s) are prone to glitches at high speed at low temperature on these machines and that this bug is known and documented and even has a name - the errata bug.

Does this ring any bells? I also recently elsewhere read that this is due to a glitch with the XPC107 controller and one of the reasons why Apple subsequently went for 744X/745X. Is this glitch frequency or multiplier-based?

Do you think that there is any possibility to run this chip at its intended speed (550 MHz)? I could also try changing the FSB to 120 MHz x4.5 to run it at 540 MHz or 133 MHz x4 to 533 MHz (the latter by clipping R811 off of the backside of the mobo), however I have read that the latter is quite unstable (https://www.applefritter.com/node/4289), even though it should be possible on the 7410 side as it supports 133 MHz FSB

I also read that in theory it could be addressed by increasing the core voltage, presumably by directly soldering the Vid jumpers to another configuration on the ZIF module itself (https://web.archive.org/web/2006031...ourmac.com/G4ZONE/G4YIKESOC/500MHz_yikes.html)

And supposedly there is an OF hack to get higher speeds, but I am not sure that this applies to the B&W/Yikes (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/i-just-software-overclocked-my-g4-400-to-533mhz.25114/)

Finally, the chip itself is theoretically rated to 600 MHz at least on the lowendmac specs (https://lowendmac.com/ppc/g4zif.shtml)

Does anyone have experience in any of the above? If so which method would be more suitable to reach speeds above 500 MHz?

Many thanks for your help,

Cheers

 

[bunnspecial]

The FX5200 very much supports CI. It's not a particularly good CI card(enough that, IIRC, Leopard disables some of the animations by default with it), but it does support it.

I remember not having to manually enable it on PCI NWR Macs-it just worked when I stuck a flashed 5200 in a Yikes!