PowerMac G4 Gigabit Ethernet Quieting?

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by vlark, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. vlark macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    #1
    Two questions:

    1. What size/model fan would I need to replace the stock case fan in a PowerMac G4 Gigabit Ethernet?

    2. What size/model fans would I need to replace the power supply fan(s) in the same machine?

    Thanks!
     
  2. gavinstubbs09 macrumors 65816

    gavinstubbs09

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    NorCal boonies ~~~by Reno sorta
    #2
    I I remember right the one in the side is a 120mm. I use a cooler master sickleflow with a molex to 3 pin power. The PSU I have no idea the size.
     
  3. vlark thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 13, 2014
    #3
    OK! Good info for the case fan. I'll look into that.
     
  4. Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #4
    Here is the info for several G4 fans, but not specifically for the GE. Maybe someone can comment, if it shares the fan with maybe the AGP or DA. http://web.archive.org/web/20070303184013/http://infohost.nmt.edu/~holstien/g4info.html
    You could also just take the fans out of your G4 and look for the model numbers etc. and google for the airflow.
    I have my GE parts put away, where it would be to much work to access them at the moment, but they could be the same as in the AGP.

    In the case of the AGP G4 some people have used a 130m2/h airflow fan instead of the original 146.5m2/h airflow fan. (divide it by 1.69 and you get the cfm, if you are american and use other measurements then the rest of the world ;))
    Some of those that have used a 130m2/h airflow fan did use an additional 80mm fan at the bracket, where the optional airport card would sit.
    The case fan is 120x25mm. A fan with thickness of up to 38mm does fit, too.

    The PSU fan is a 80x25mm fan and is heat regulated by a two Pin sensor in the PSU itself. You will be able to connect a 3-Pin fan, though, without cutting something.

    Also, the most air is exhausted by the PSU, the big case fan does not that much contribute to the overall performance.
     
  5. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    #5
    I'm fairly sure the GE's internal configuration is the same as the AGP's. With the DA's being the same as the QS.
     
  6. Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #6
    One can always rely on Intell. :)

    Does the GE PSU have the same 80mm fan (same cfm?) like the AGP PSU? (I mean since the GE PSU has more Watts, don't recall what exactly, I think something like 347W or so..)
     
  7. Intell macrumors P6

    Intell

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    Inside
    #7
    I think the physical shape of the power supplies are the same, but their output isn't. I'm not sure about their internal fans.
     
  8. vlark thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 13, 2014
    #8
    OK, good info here! Thanks, guys!

    I'm hesitant to tear into the PSU without knowing exactlty I need to replace it, as this is my main home computer.
     
  9. Cox Orange, Mar 22, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014

    Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #9
    Well, let it sit unplugged for a day or so. Then take out the PSU (see ifixit) and look what model number stands on the fan. Then you can look up, what static pressure, what airflow, (and maybe rpm) and what Ampere it is rated and find a newer one that matches the specs.

    I changed my AGP G4 PSU's fan to a Noctua NF R8 and there are no problems (got quieter), even with air exhausted that comes from a hot passively cooled Sonnet CPU (1,2GHz 7455B). So it is possible, but you have to know, what the original fan's specs are.

    Of course every manufacturer test differently and gives different measures (Enermax for example always only gives the noise level at minimum speed, which is very misleading), but you have a bit of an orientation.

    Edit: digged deep and put out my GE parts. Opened the PSU. Someone (maybe in factory) put huge amounts of white silicone everywhere, probably to fasten/seat the components more thoroughly, e.g. some of the capasitors, but also wires and coils. I carefully got the fan out.
    Mine reads "Superred CHA8012BS" with "0.12A".
    The Sawtooth fan has 0.14A, interesting.

    I did a quick search and found nothing about the airflow, maybe you can search extensively.
     
  10. vlark thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 13, 2014
    #10
    Thanks, Cox Orange! Good info. It seems that the Noctua NF R8 might work as a replacement for the Superred CHA8012BS if I have the same fan in my GE PSU.
     
  11. Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    Jan 1, 2010
    #11
    If it is the same and if the superred fan has the same airflow etc. like the Delta fan in the AGP-G4 PSU (that has 0.14A vs 0.12A rating btw.) you might be interested in a comparison I made a long time ago, you might find better fits:

    http://skinflint.co.uk/eu/?cmp=4472...0&cmp=261130&cmp=323642&cmp=644211&cmp=592140

    You should maybe not buy the Leva fan, since it is a cheap OEM fan, where people think that it might not last long enough and 25dB(A) is noisy, though it will start at a higher airflow from the beginning (remember the PSU has a controller that spins up the fan according to the heat).
    I did not include fans that do not match the 0.14A at 12V to keep it save, back then. Since a Quicksilver User (the Karl I had linked to above) wrote in an article that he had a 80mm Thermaltake fan that drew to much.

    The Zaward fan starts and tops out at higher airflow (as claimed by the manufacturer), too and might be a good choise, since it will spin faster at a later time. In the US these are sold under the model name SilentEagle, but are restricted in rpm, so be carefull not to just compare by the name, but also look at the rpm.
     
  12. vlark thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    #12
    I'm finally going to take the plunge and replace the fans.

    My GE's power supply is a Delta Electronics DPS-338BB A Rev:01, rated for 338W.

    After reading this thread and the "System and Cooling" by All Things PPC link recommended in the thread, I decided to go with these two fans:

    Noctua NF-R8 PWM Cooling Fan for the PSU replacement

    Noctua NF-P12 120 mm Nine Blade SSO Bearing Fan with VCN for the case fan replamcent.

    I think these will work; am I right?


    Also, I'm looking for a replacement for the heatsink fan on my Sonnet Encore/ST 1ghz CPU upgrade. According to Cox Orange over on this thread, the stock fan is a Sunon KDE1205PFB1. Cox Orange swapped out his dual-fan model with a with Papst 512F/2 fans. But those have a 30.0 dba and a lower CFM.

    Is there a comparable two-pin CPU fan that gets power from the daughter card AND is quieter (25 dba or lower) AND has a highter CFM that would be an easy swap out?
     
  13. Cox Orange, Jun 30, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014

    Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    #13
    Oh, I mislead you with the Pabst fans. I reread the thread: I wanted to buy the Pabst fans, for the Dual Sonnet CPU, but didn't in the end, since I needed a special torx screwdriver with a nipple in the middle of the star, I delayed this project.

    On the noise, yes they differ only in 1dB(A), but small fans with that airflow are almost always loud, so the hope (as also told to me in another forum, back then) is, that newer fans will very likely be quieter, in general.
    There was another option I had in mind. Replace it with a thin 80-100mm fan. With double the airflow of the two single Sunon fans (2x13cfm).

    Dual CPU Sonnet:
    Since the Sunon fan is 10mm thick and the Pabst is 15mm thick and for the Dual Sonnet CPU one would have to move them by a few mm, so that the case closes properly (optical drive cage hits fan's frame, when closing door, otherwise).
    I then got the idea, that if one takes a big diameter fan, the thickness can as well be picked higher, but I didn't plan to go over 15mm, because with like 25mm the fan would be moved to far away from where the CPU-chips are. The fan will hang over the cooler. See picture 1: the blue bar is the 100mm mounted on the copper heatsink (orange), overhanging, the red one is the case fan.) Dual CPU Sonnet END

    On your Single Fan Sonnet CPU:
    Since you have the single fan Sonnet CPU, it can be as thick as you want. [Edit: I used a price comparison site and it seems there are no 50mm fan thicker as 15mm. If we can believe the paper the Gelid Solutions Silent 5 (FN-SX05-40) should be interesting, Gelid actually rebrands existing fans, but I didn't find the original for that, maybe this is an own-engineering piece... it has a high air pressure, so that might cause the good specs.]
    Also there is a 50x15mm fan by SmartCooler LFM1350T, that has a thermal sensor and is 25dB(A) at 13.8cfm at 50°C (the temperature range it reacts to goes from 25-60°C). Unfortunately it is not widely sold anymore, but maybe, if you look around for a longer time, you will find it on Ebay.
    This manufacturer makes several other 50mm fans, even some with 25mm thickness! It is a bit confusing to navigate through the sections, though: http://smartcooler.de/frsce-AL.htm

    They also have complete Mac-Fan sets (I am not sure, how good they are though, also the specs indicate, that they have lower airflow and maybe are only quieter because of this) http://smartcooler.de/frsce-MACL.htm these sets come with 3-to-2Pin-adapters and stuff.

    You also have the 1GHz model. I have the 1,2GHz model and still run it without(!) fan, it is passively cooled by the original stock cooler. The purple Sonnet heatsink, would also have more flesh and be even better. Mind I live in a region where Temperatures inside the house do never rise above 23°C in summers (over the year we have 19-21°C inside the house). Even a weaker 50mm fan might do, if you don't want to rely on just the heatsink.

    Other solution for CPU-fan: If, you want to try a fan there and a 50mm fan is too loud for you, you could try to somehow attach a 80-120mm fan under the ODD cage, so that it matches up with the heatsink, when you close the door (see the two drawn picture that show how to route a thread/string or zipties - and see these pictures link where I used tape, just to show the positioning. The ruler represents the L-shaped shield on the case fan http://s667.photobucket.com/user/Idonthaveaguess/library/Heatsink or casefan mod ).

    ----
    For the 120mm noctua fan, it has 90m3/h that is 54cfm, the stock case fan has 146m3/h (86cfm).
    I heard people using 100-120m3/h fans (71cfm), but they also used a 80mm fan additionally on the f-bracket (where the airportcard would go). People mentioned a combination of Antec TrueCool or TwoCool 80mm (F-bracket) +120mm (case-fan) fans in this scenario.
    Others mentioned the Antec TriCool with 134m3/h (79cfm) to be good and quiet, though on paper it has 30dB(A) which is loud. That might just tell us once more, that on paper doesn't always reflect, what is reality (maybe they are just more honest, or too honest, than other manufacturers).
    The main fan doing the cooling job seems to be the fan inside the PSU, anyway, because it soaks up all the heat through it and out of the case.

    In the applediscussionsforum a user mentioned successful use of a Akasa Black Fan Series (AK-174BKT-B) (which I planned to test, but they sent me the wrong fan and I didn't buy it again). This fan has the same temperature control attached to the fan itself, like the stock fan. You can see a little green or blue tear next to the motor of the fan.
    If you consider an Enermax or Nexus fan, be aware that they will state the beginning noise and not the noise at top speed, so an Enermax Twister Cluster or Silence T.B. with an impressive 11 or 15dB(A) is actually only that quiet at the lowest rpm! (other manufacturers give the noise for the top rpm).

    There is a Silenx EFX-12-15T with Thermistor (in this case a cable with a sensor at the end, that you can attach to the ODD cage bottom, so that it is near to the heatsink of the CPU.) The interesting thing is, that picture4 (green frame) shows, that the fan gets speedier at a higher °C than the AKASA, picture5. So it might be quieter for a longer time, according to HDDs in my G4 the internal temperature never rises above 40-45°C.

    The Japamac Cooling site, linked to by reddraggon in the noctua thread mentions the Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm (R4-EXBB-20PK-R0). (I would find it interesting to know, if Japamac has tested any other fans, on paper the Excalibur would be loud, too, with the 30dB(A), but the sound as such might be more pleasing.)

    What other components do you have in your Mac (hot graphics cards, a lot of drives)?

    ---
    the noctua 80mm fan you mention worked great for me.

    .
     

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