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Powermac G5 Cluster

Lil Chillbil said:
Disclaimer, Now I know I could of responded to this question in stating that yes I am under the influence of thc. and that I do care about the environment for the next generation. But I love powerpc and we most likely won't be here in 20 years and who gives a **** about the next generation So my only response is


#Yolo
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Did you able to get the humor?

Anyway Kull, you will not use up your 5 grand to full spec all of those 15 quads and make it a cluster. You don't even need a 7800GTX on each of those. Yes you can max out the RAM on all of those 15 quads and still have change or your 5 grand.

But the next question would how much wattage-hr will you be pulling with those quads in cluster, plus the energy required by the air conditioner to cool the room off, because I can imagine how hot it would be without AC.
 
so what I have in savings is 15 grand, and that is the max I can spend on this setup. The hardest part is not making the power to these macs solar assisted. Its the finding of 16 7800 gpus. most likely just gonna buy pc versions and flash em myself.

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Nameci said:
Did you able to get the humor?

Anyway Kull, you will not use up your 5 grand to full spec all of those 15 quads and make it a cluster. You don't even need a 7800GTX on each of those. Yes you can max out the RAM on all of those 15 quads and still have change or your 5 grand.

But the next question would how much wattage-hr will you be pulling with those quads in cluster, plus the energy required by the air conditioner to cool the room off, because I can imagine how hot it would be without AC.
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planning on having 4 of them and the entire setup solar assisted by 8 full size solar panels up on the roof of the house. charing up a giant generator to power the rig part time

I May need to put more than 8 if the power draw off is too great.


but you know me, I don't know math Romel :p
 
Lil Chillbil said:
so what I have in savings is 15 grand, and that is the max I can spend on this setup. The hardest part is not making the power to these macs solar assisted. Its the finding of 16 7800 gpus. most likely just gonna buy pc versions and flash em myself.

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planning on having 4 of them and the entire setup solar assisted by 8 full size solar panels up on the roof of the house. charing up a giant generator to power the rig part time

I May need to put more than 8 if the power draw off is too great.


but you know me, I don't know math Romel :p
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Show it and flaunt it big boy... post the pic when its done.
 
You don't need GPUs in a cluster. If the process is GPU accelerated you wouldn't even need a cluster.

However, great project, but unless you really can find the Quads for a good price, I'd go for Xserves. It's for what they're designed for, you'd be able to use standard 1U racks and they would use less power. And you won't need an entire room for them.

It's also easier to find good "lots" of computers for cheap if you're looking for Xserves. Example. Less than 4,000$ but you'd get 57 Dual Processor Xserve. How many Quads can you buy for that price?
 
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solar

Lil Chillbil said:
so what I have in savings is 15 grand, and that is the max I can spend on this setup. The hardest part is not making the power to these macs solar assisted. Its the finding of 16 7800 gpus. most likely just gonna buy pc versions and flash em myself.

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planning on having 4 of them and the entire setup solar assisted by 8 full size solar panels up on the roof of the house. charing up a giant generator to power the rig part time

I May need to put more than 8 if the power draw off is too great.


but you know me, I don't know math Romel :p
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Just out of curiosity, how cost effective is that solar panel thing? How much did it cost upfront and how much does it save per day on average? How long will it take you to recover the loss when you take into account the cost of fixing equipment, batteries, hardware, etc.? How sunny is it in your area?:)

::
 
Lil Chillbil said:
so what I have in savings is 15 grand, and that is the max I can spend on this setup. The hardest part is not making the power to these macs solar assisted. Its the finding of 16 7800 gpus. most likely just gonna buy pc versions and flash em myself.

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planning on having 4 of them and the entire setup solar assisted by 8 full size solar panels up on the roof of the house. charing up a giant generator to power the rig part time

I May need to put more than 8 if the power draw off is too great.


but you know me, I don't know math Romel :p
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Why don't you try and see how this works before you blow cash on it. It won't accelerate playback in FCP, it will just accelerate encoding (FYI, this will be through QMaster and Compressor, not XGrid). Therefore, when you are trying to view the video that you are editing, it will probably be choppy. Xgrid doesn't really do real time stuff, it does stuff where you issue a command and it comes back a while later with the finished process. Also, as has been mentioned, you probably don't need any GPUs. If you took them out you might save some power.
 
MisterKeeks said:
Why don't you try and see how this works before you blow cash on it. It won't accelerate playback in FCP, it will just accelerate encoding (FYI, this will be through QMaster and Compressor, not XGrid). Therefore, when you are trying to view the video that you are editing, it will probably be choppy. Xgrid doesn't really do real time stuff, it does stuff where you issue a command and it comes back a while later with the finished process. Also, as has been mentioned, you probably don't need any GPUs. If you took them out you might save some power.
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Well basically something happened in my life that made me realize just how fragile life is. So rather than saving money for a rainy day or a 401k 40 years down the line. I asked myself what would make me happy, and when I saw this thread I knew what would.

I would want to have the capabilities to do graphic rendering on this supercomputer if need be

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Member2010 said:
Just out of curiosity, how cost effective is that solar panel thing? How much did it cost upfront and how much does it save per day on average? How long will it take you to recover the loss when you take into account the cost of fixing equipment, batteries, hardware, etc.? How sunny is it in your area?:)

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Haven't done the calculation's yet but its $80 a panel and I live in the sunniest part of California so its a no brainer
 
I was tempted to do the same... It would be nice to say I've a supercomputer at home :cool:

But finally I discovered my iMac is actually as fast as four Quads. And it uses max. 175W vs 4,000 watts. But I'm still tempted. Maybe I'll buy a few Xserves and do the same. They also run over Fibre Channel instead of Ethernet, which gives them a better data throughput.
 
Lil Chillbil said:
...I May need to put more than 8 if the power draw off is too great.

but you know me, I don't know math Romel :p
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Or just go with a grid-tied system? Good quality panels will last a long time. I have one that was built in the 70s that still produces 80% of its rated output. If you're allocating a few thousand of your budget to panels, you should be able to get some good ones. Although it's sad to think about the mortality of any Mac, your panels will outlast all of them. Over their life, it's likely that they will produce many many times the electricity that you'll use on this project even if you end up using your cluster more than you're expecting to.

What I said upthread about it being unwise to put solar directly to a G5 doesn't apply here. Purchasing grid tie panels for the specific purpose of offsetting the requirements of a hobby that consumes a lot of power is a very responsible thing to do.

If you've not done so already, be sure to research additional incentives available in California. I don't live there, but hear that it's very a solar friendly state.

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Member2010 said:
Just out of curiosity, how cost effective is that solar panel thing? How much did it cost upfront and how much does it save per day on average? How long will it take you to recover the loss when you take into account the cost of fixing equipment, batteries, hardware, etc.? How sunny is it in your area?:)

::
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Depending on where ones lives, how much the local going rate for electricity is, how many days of sunlight per year, and state incentives, it will take between 10 and 15 years to recover the cost. It's a long-term investment if you're just looking at the money aspect. But it makes you feel better right away! :)
 
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energy

Swampus said:
Depending on where ones lives, how much the local going rate for electricity is, how many days of sunlight per year, and state incentives, it will take between 10 and 15 years to recover the cost. :)
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:eek::eek: What if the house or equipment fails by then? 15 years is a long time to yearn that back!

Swampus said:
It's a long-term investment if you're just looking at the money aspect. But it makes you feel better right away! :)
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Right away?

I know for our family and where I live, the cold and snow do find their way in for a few months of the year, so it probably wouldn't be ideal. I think we've got a pretty competitive rate for the power grid though, we're right on the edge of the service area of a state-of-the-art coal facility and they've got good prices and decent uptime.

I Guess that kind of thing depends on where you live.

::
 
Lil Chillbil said:
Disclaimer, Now I know I could of responded to this question in stating that yes I am under the influence of thc. and that I do care about the environment for the next generation. But I love powerpc and we most likely won't be here in 20 years and who gives a **** about the next generation So my only response is


#Yolo
Click to expand...

Have you gotten those G5s yet. Eat 10 hawaianbabywoodrose seeds, and you can see the multicolored GHz!!!
 
I really hope you guys aren't as gullible as you're sounding right now & are just playing along with his delusional theories. There is NO way that he is going to blow 15 grand on a dozen 10 year old computers & a set of solar panels.
 
Solar panels? Let's do the math.

Depending on the system of choice you would get different results, however, based on the price you are willing to pay that would be a roof mounted system. An average system would be equal to about 3100 watts (in mixed conditions) and consist of 18 panels (however, the true output would be close to 2700 watt). That would average about 10 kilowatt hours/day.

A PowerMac G5 (2004) idles at 160 watts and reaches maximum CPU load at 300 watts. However, looking at the specs gives us a completely different view of it.

*Line voltage: 100-125V AC or 200-240V AC
*Maximum current: 6.5A (low-voltage range) or 7.5A (high-voltage range)

That means that if you are a resident of the US said machine could pull about 120V x 6.5A = 780W max (the PSU is made to output 600 watts max), however, it will average about 300 under load.

Let's imagine that this is a cluster, let's say about 4 PowerMacs. That would equal a maximum load of 1000 watts (unless at maximum, 3120 watts).

That means that you could run these four PowerMacs at 1Kw/Hr. If you are running one Apple Cinema Display (about 250 watts) that would mean that you are wasting about 1,25Kw/hr.

Running this for an entire day would result in 30Kw/hr per day. That's more than an average (and reasonably priced) solar system would be able to handle (and let's not talk about when the power source gets obscured by a cloud...).

Someone more interested in the subject would probably be able to redefine my thesis, but i feel like i have better things to do.
 
Springsteen said:
Running this for an entire day would result in 30Kw/hr per day. That's more than an average (and reasonably priced) solar system would be able to handle (and let's not talk about when the power source gets obscured by a cloud...)
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Apple rates the quad G5 at 1877 BTU/hour at max load, so that's close to 30000 BTU/hr for 15 machines plus whatever would be needed to cool the room due to environmental factors. That'll increase the power demands significantly.
EDIT: the 15 G5 quads use about the same power and put out the same heat as 97 2.3 GHz quad i7 late 2012 Minis and a cluster of Minis would obviously be significantly faster than the G5s. There's no logical reason of any sort to do this sort of thing with G5s anymore.

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Springsteen said:
A PowerMac G5 (2004) idles at 160 watts and reaches maximum CPU load at 300 watts.
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Quads are higher at 185W and 550W respectively. http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24037
 
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I don't know how serious OP is, but I think the idea was to offset the electricity used for this hobby, not power them from panels in real time. I certainly agree that you'll not do that on this budget. He mentioned that he will use the cluster sparingly.
 
Dual G5 2.5Ghz XServes are in the same price range as the Quad G5 Power Mac. The XServe is also much louder and will require it's own room if you mind the noise. Drive sled's are getting harder to find and it lacks PCIe slots.

Don't get me wrong, i have been looking into doing this for PPC virtual machines for a long time. I originally wanted XServes, but for the same price i can get 2 additional cores, PCIe, and standard storage attachment in the PowerMac.
 
chrfr said:
Quads are higher at 185W and 550W respectively. http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24037
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Sorry, i only based my calculations on the machines with the smallest power requirements (just to give the guy a break).

But you are a 100% right at the fact that there would be some serious cooling involved. Running a cooling-room for 24 hours a day isn't exactly viable.

Swampus said:
I don't know how serious OP is, but I think the idea was to offset the electricity used for this hobby, not power them from panels in real time. I certainly agree that you'll not do that on this budget. He mentioned that he will use the cluster sparingly.
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Then you would require a storage device for said electricity, preferably some kind of battery. The big problem in that case would be to find one that could store the energy without having to send off excess power (and it will certainly cost a lot).

If the PM's are going to be plugged in during the usage-intervalls, the battery needs to be able to hold a charge that will keep them "running" during the hours when they are turned off.


And the meaning of a cluster is to process processor-intensitive tasks, this means that they would without a question all reach the maximum power consumption (450 watts on the G5 Quad) and will require a lot more energy than i noted in my previous comment (and thus the overall idea fails).

Or he might just use it to watch movies, but that would be a big waste of electricity and time.

alexrmc92 said:
Dual G5 2.5Ghz XServes are in the same price range as the Quad G5 Power Mac. The XServe is also much louder and will require it's own room if you mind the noise. Drive sled's are getting harder to find and it lacks PCIe slots.

Don't get me wrong, i have been looking into doing this for PPC virtual machines for a long time. I originally wanted XServes, but for the same price i can get 2 additional cores, PCIe, and standard storage attachment in the PowerMac.
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G5 Xserve Cluster? Man, that would make the neighbors complain!

___

OP, if you wish to create a cluster with a budget, at least use Intel machines (Mini (early 2006 idle: 23 watt)) or PPC systems that consumes less watts than a G5 (Mini (2005 idle: 32 watt)).
 
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Springsteen said:
...Then you would require a storage device for said electricity, preferably some kind of battery. The big problem in that case would be to find one that could store the energy without having to send off excess power (and it will certainly cost a lot).
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Really, the best way to do this would be with a small grid tie system and forgetting the battery bank altogether.
 
Believe me, I'd love to have 15 G5 quads but just my dual G5 model creates so much heat (10* degrees if I have it running for a few hours) and I couldn't imagine 15 of them. The best bet would be to go get a few 12 core Mac Pros or even load up on some minis with an i7 and SSDs. It'd cut down on heat rather than having 3x the heat with the G5 (and I couldn't imagine the cold air it would take to keep them cold). And power. If I was 18 I couldn't imagine living in a house with a monthly power bill of $500 a month (on top of other things, food, insurance, rent, gas, and so on). Same payment as a new car! Now solar is a good idea but then your concern is the heat yet again. And space.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I've downloaded the Windows AIK but am slightly at a loss as to how to inject the drivers to the .wim (install or boot?) using ImageX and DT command prompt.
 
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