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PowerMac Technical Update?

Originally posted by Gyroscope
Hmm!

If this turns out to be true I think we won't see any PPC 970 based Macs anytime soon. If the release of new PM was imminent why would they bother to make these revisions now? Wouldn't they rather try to sell all inventory of existing G4 towers?

It could also be that 970's is so expensive and that they have to keep existing G4 line for mid range configurations. But again doesnt make sense. Existing G4 (choked with 133 mhz archaic bus)can't compete on desktop in any form or incranation.
It's just not CPU of this age and I think it should be burried.RIP!


It makes me angry/sad that Apple folks kept their heads firmly dug into sand for so long now. Its apsolutley pathetic to continue to sell and market existing PM G4 stuff when Intel offerings have 800 FSB with CPU clock speeds exceeding 3 GHZ. Maybe Apple will indeed turn into some sort of media company and abandon desktop altogether. Well in the end who's gonna really care? More and more pros are abandoning Mac platform just because they can get faster/cheaper machines elsewhere to do their work. Imagine if there was no OSX! Its great OS and I think it helped slow down Apple's market share decline somehow.
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*new rule* *new rule*

let's read half of the posts on the board before we flame apple...

just for review... this is a minor revision, like the hundreds (who said hundreds? it's prolly close) that happen over the course of a product line. this rumor has nothing to do with the 970, and they're not screwing their customer - they're helping them. that's what updates are all about.

as for the rest of it, it kinda sounds like things we've been hearing since the 80's

matt
 
Originally posted by Goekeli
Panther soon? July-august maybe. 970? MWSF 04.
IMHO,. Remember, year of the lap top?

Goe
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What does it being the year of the laptop have to do with whether or not we'll see the 970 this year? There is even a lot of speculation supported by some rumors that we'll see not only 970 Power Macs, but also 970 PowerBooks. Wouldn't that put the capstone on this being the year of the laptop?
 
Originally posted by Snowy_River
What does it being the year of the laptop have to do with whether or not we'll see the 970 this year? There is even a lot of speculation supported by some rumors that we'll see not only 970 Power Macs, but also 970 PowerBooks. Wouldn't that put the capstone on this being the year of the laptop?
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Hmm, do remember SJ declared the CRT dead and don't we still have an Emac on the menu these days?

Obviously at the time SJ declared 'the year of the powerbook' uncertainty must have been there about the 970 mac
 
Originally posted by NoVi
Hmm, do remember SJ declared the CRT dead and don't we still have an Emac on the menu these days?

Obviously at the time SJ declared 'the year of the powerbook' uncertainty must have been there about the 970 mac
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Well, I think that based on what we know, or think we know, anyway, that this is definitely the case. Back in January they didn't know how the production of the 970 would run. Whether or not there was uncertainty about Apple using the 970 in the next gen Power Mac, there was definitely uncertainty as to when the 970 would be available.

So, I still stand by my hope that we'll be seeing a PowerBook 970 in the near future...
 
According to Macbidouille today, Apple have officially confirmed to some customers that the G4 will be around for another three months.....
 
Ehehehehem! Ehrm! Arhaha!
(Sorry, had to clean my keyboard. Haven't posted here in decades.)

So how could a minor change announced not be interpreted as the postponement of the dribblingly awaited 970?

Logic dictates: To make minor improvements to a product line, you must not have discontinued that product previously.

If so, Apple are slapping (have s.o. slap) bottle-necked moto G4 into El-Capitan-descendend minitowers AS I TYPE THIS.

Instead they should (have s.o.) assemble the machines we are all having wet dreams about BY NOW!

Someone (anyone, pretty pleez) point out the flaw in my argument!
 
IBM line is similar

Originally posted by skunk
According to Macbidouille today, Apple have officially confirmed to some customers that the G4 will be around for another three months.....
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In a meeting with IBM sales on Monday, we were told not to expect PPC970-based blades before cyQ4.

If IBM won't be releasing PPC970 kit themselves before October, a June debut of PPC970 Macs seems less likely - unless Apple breaks with tradition and gives an advance preview of 970-based protos.
 
Re: Re: Re: Planned obsolescence?

Originally posted by AidenShaw
So you don't think that it makes sense either?

I just find it very strange that it would be necessary to modify the hardware to support an O/S update.

Unless, perhaps, the whole story is overblown and the new systems merely have a firmware update that will be needed eventually for any PM to run 10.3.
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My guess would be that the new OS stresses some
component more than previous ones. I'm sure they
will work around it in software for the older
machines but why leave the HW 'problem' in now
that they know about it.

This sort of thing is really common. The older
machines will probably not be quite as fast in
some regard with the new OS as the updated
machines. Before people start getting upset
just remember this is a basic fact of life in
the computer industry.

I'm guessing the only reason this is news is
because it may (or may not) point to the 970's
not being right around the corner.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This could be...

Originally posted by freundt
Wow... and I thought the UFOoligists had the circular logic conspiracy theory thing locked up.
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Well, it is an attempt to maintain some degree of optimisim for an "earlier" rollout. :p

A bit more seriously, part of my professional training is to be able to systematically deconstruct elements and ascertain every possible permutation...failure mode causalities, possible outcomes, etc. Here, just because its unlikely doesn't mean that it is not an impossibility.



(not being mean, but, considering what others have said about "the majority" of the apple buying public do not follow rumor sites, then it stands to reason that we are a small bunch. would apple go through all that trouble just to throw us for a loop?)
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No offense taken. I see it merely as a possibility, and while its significance for normal mortals would probably be very little, because Steve Jobs has a reputation for information security, including how he will direct that any leak - - no matter how small - - shall be plugged (and the perpetrators punished, if possible), this historical pattern can only serve to shift the odds to make such measures more likely.

You might want to call it a grand conspiracy, and while I won't disagree, I will point out that there is historical precidence of extreme responses that would infer motivation.


Lest we forget ... MacWorld 2000, and ATI's RAGE 128 PRO video card annoucement that came but two days before Steve's Keynote.

The result: ATI's new product was pulled from Apple's hardware line, all mention of their company was stripped from the Keynote, and 6 months later, the PowerMacs came with Nvidia's GeForce2 MX chips instead of ATI's.



-hh
 
Originally posted by Shaktai

Think Secret is cautious about what they post. As mentioned, they are attempting to confirm information they have re: the 970. Let's hope they do so soon. While not 100%, their sources do appear in general to be among the most accurate.
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ThinkSecret and this site are the only two rumor sites I would believe for near-announcement rumors. I think people perceive ThinkSecret as being more accurate because they'll only post something at the last minute. This site takes a wider stance on the issue and I'm glad they do so.

Here's what I think will happen over at ThinkSecret. ThinkSecret will take a couple more days and finally announce some hard numbers and dates. These will probably be right, but nothing more than confirmation about what we already know from here, along with a tibit or two of difference.

MacOSRumors has, of late, become sparce and undetailed in their rumors.
 
Re: IBM line is similar

Originally posted by AidenShaw
In a meeting with IBM sales on Monday, we were told not to expect PPC970-based blades before cyQ4.

If IBM won't be releasing PPC970 kit themselves before October, a June debut of PPC970 Macs seems less likely - unless Apple breaks with tradition and gives an advance preview of 970-based protos.
Click to expand...

Actually, that seems MORE likely to me. Apple will get precedence of all the initial chips because the 970 is designed for them. IBM will not release computers based on the chips until Apple is done stocking up. This is very normal, as seems to solidify the June/July anouncements.
 
I'll argue it makes a 970 Mac less likely in June

Originally posted by Frobozz
Actually, that seems MORE likely to me. Apple will get precedence of all the initial chips because the 970 is designed for them. IBM will not release computers based on the chips until Apple is done stocking up. This is very normal, as seems to solidify the June/July anouncements.
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That's rather unusual for high-tech - that a company like IBM would agree to make a small profit selling chips to a third party, instead of making a larger profit using the chips in its own systems.

I've worked with many new chips, and I think this info more likely means that:

a. Certainly, quantities of the 970 are extremely limited in Q3 - since IBM's blades could be expected to sell in the range of thousands per quarter (true blades are a small market, and the first few months of a completely new architecture will get people who are interested in trying them out, not huge deployments). I'd be surprised if IBM couldn't keep a few thousand compared to the hundreds of thousands that Apple would need to launch new PMs.

b. Possibly, the current 970 chip (if it is actually sampling, we have no confirmation of that) is defective, and a new pass will be required before production begins. It could take several months if any significant redesign is necessary. (Besides, cyQ3 is not exactly late for the initial predictions of "mid 2003".)

Of course, we're both speculating, and we won't know for sure until the famous "one more thing" line is spoken. ;)
 
Sigh! :rolleyes:

Too many people are reading far too much into all this. All the annoucement means is that a minor revision is being done to "improve compatibility" of the current PowerMac line with Panther. Nothing more. No consipiracies, no deception, no delays, just good business.

The IBM Fab producing the 970 was at near 1/3 capacity by the end of April. It should be at full production capacity by early July. There will be plenty of chips for both IBM and Apple. If there is a logjam it will be in the board production or assembly stages. The 970 chips will be there. (unlike with Motorola).

The 970 is a collaborative effort between Apple and IBM that started about 2 years ago. When Motorola messed up, Apple started looking for options. IBM was the logical first option. Both companies benefit from the effort. IBM gets a new very marketable chip for its own lower volume blade servers, but the R&D and production costs are mostly paid for by Apple. The end result is both companies can produce a competitive product at a lower "volume" price.

Remember that the original Power PC concept was from IBM. Then Motorola, Apple and IBM all worked together to refine and produce the concept, but the Power PC is now and has always been IBM's brainchild. Nobody knows or does it better.

The 970 will come, when it comes. I still expect teasers (general information) at WWDC and a formal announcement in early July, with immediate availability of some models.

Forget what you know, or think you know about the way things went with Motorola and Apple. The 970 is a whole new ball game. Everything has changed.
 
Re: Re: IBM line is similar

Originally posted by Frobozz
Actually, that seems MORE likely to me. Apple will get precedence of all the initial chips because the 970 is designed for them. IBM will not release computers based on the chips until Apple is done stocking up. This is very normal, as seems to solidify the June/July anouncements.
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Well, I hope that your interpretation is correct. Unfortunately, I see this latest news as being not very encouraging. I'm now much less optimistic about the prospects for a release this summer.
 
Mods to PowerMac for Panther.

Look I dunno why you all iz writing all diz stuff....

I iz no expert but I fink its simple.... The current machine iz made of 32 bits and to run the new os they have to make it of 64 bits don't they. I guess they can do diz by using more chips adding more keys to the keyboard and maybe adding some buttons to the mouse or something?
 
Re: Mods to PowerMac for Panther.

Originally posted by anthonylambert
Look I dunno why you all iz writing all diz stuff....

I iz no expert but I fink its simple.... The current machine iz made of 32 bits and to run the new os they have to make it of 64 bits don't they. I guess they can do diz by using more chips adding more keys to the keyboard and maybe adding for buttons to the mouse or something?
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You're silly...
:p
 
Originally posted by Remus
I think that far more sparce than you think. Like in there is no MacOSRumors. The site seems to be gone... :D
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I heard that they are redesigning their site.

At least that's what they had posted a while back.
 
Originally posted by job
I heard that they are redesigning their site.

At least that's what they had posted a while back.
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Wow. I don't visit MOSR for a few, and suddenly they vanish altogether. In the past when they've done upgrades or redesigns they haven't pulled the site like this.

Hmm. Maybe they got tired of being bashed for being wrong all the time... :D

(But, seriously, I do hope they come back. MOSR is where I got my start on being a rumor monger. It'd be sad if they were gone for good. :( )
 
MOSR Outage

I looked at their site just after all those storms rolled through the east coast and they simply had a message saying all of their servers got fried and all their data lost. It said they were going to try and recoup as much as they could and rebuild the site. Don't expect them up any time soon.
 
NEW FROM MACBIDOUILLE

Just in: they surmise that the absence of releases of Darwin code since February except for official updates is because there's too much PPC970 stuff in there these days to hide. Same goes for Developer Tools: no visible progress since December. Another thing: confirmation that 970s at 1.7GHz are due out in July, manufactured using SiLK (low-K silicon) at 0.13microns, which will support an eventual processor speed of 2.3GHz or more. When they move to .09micron wafers at the start of 2004, the material will be something else again, enabling speeds of 2.5GHz, as originally announced. At the end of 2004, IBM will add "strained silicon", enabling the Power 5+ to reach 3GHz, and the PPC970/980 4.5GHz. If all goes according to plan.....
 
Originally posted by emdezet
Someone (anyone, pretty pleez) point out the flaw in my argument!
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  • It was not announced at all. It was rumored from a third party source.
  • As already stated elsewhere, including in the article itself it is a common occurence in a product lifecycle.
  • We don't know at what step in the production or distribution process the change takes place. If as simple as a firmware upgrade, it could take place anywhere prior to the Sales channel, or in some instances even within the Sales channel.
  • Nick from Think Secret posted in another forum that folks were reading way too much into this.
  • You assume that Apple is only capable of working on one product at a time. Not so. Work is progressing at different levels, on all their product lines.
  • Why do it? Why not? A minor change that improves a product, and does not incur a significant cost, then improves customer satisfaction which in the long run is a cost benefit. This is an update that improves funtioning with a forthcoming product. Good business dictates you make the improvement.
  • Board production could have ceased a long time ago. The change if a physical component, could be implemented anywhere in the final assembly process.
  • While PowerMac sales have slowed, they are not dead. Apple still has to meet demand until the new products are ready, and even the most optimistic estimates are for at least 1.5 more months. That is several thousand sales.
 
Re: NEW FROM MACBIDOUILLE

Originally posted by skunk
Just in: they surmise that the absence of releases of Darwin code since February except for official updates is because there's too much PPC970 stuff in there these days to hide. Same goes for Developer Tools: no visible progress since December. Another thing: confirmation that 970s at 1.7GHz are due out in July, manufactured using SiLK (low-K silicon) at 0.13microns, which will support an eventual processor speed of 2.3GHz or more. When they move to .09micron wafers at the start of 2004, the material will be something else again, enabling speeds of 2.5GHz, as originally announced. At the end of 2004, IBM will add "strained silicon", enabling the Power 5+ to reach 3GHz, and the PPC970/980 4.5GHz. If all goes according to plan.....
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Hah, now they're back tracking! So the 970 will top out at 1.7 ghz??? Whatever happened to all the talk of dual 1.8 ghz and IBM's yields being better than expected? And the G4 will continue for another quarter??? That means we won't see the 970 until the Sept/Oct time frame? That's a big change from May, which was their original projection. Why the sudden turn of events? This is not making me happy...
 
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