PowerPC owners feeling 'abandoned' ?

[zen.state]

Thanks for the great answer
If only cpu upgrades were cheaper...

True enough. It's simply such a small market that the prices have to be that high. Re-read my post as I added more good info.

Too bad they stopped making the single 7448 upgrades and just have the dual now. My single 1.8GHz was 375 in late 2009 and outperforms any dual G4 other than those with dual 7448 upgrades. Since it's only 90nm and runs so cool along with only using 16 watts it could have easily been used in the PB G4.

 

[MacHamster68]

it might be expensive , but it gives your PowerMac a new lease of life that you would not expect performance wise form a not upgraded PowerMac , the single 1.8 can even in certain apps outperform a core 2 duo , so its cheaper then a used core 2 duo 1.83 mini for example and comes close to its performance and because its a PowerMac easier to upgrade , and with PowerMac g4 selling really cheap now i seen quicksilver selling for less then £60 this upgrade is a cheap way to get a really fast PowerMac G4, even if it does sound expensive , but its a PowerMac g4 , i guess thats worth the money

 

[zen.state]

If you're going to willingly restrict yourself to old, slow hardware running what is rapidly becoming a dead platform, good luck to you, the rest of the world isn't quite that delusional.

Just because you don't understand or get how people can prefer PowerPC hardware doesn't make them delusional. You obviously don't get computers in the first place when you senselessly base everything on raw performance. People being pro PowerPC in the PowerPC forum.. imagine that huh?

Not everyone sees hardware as some generic thing thats just a slave to software. True geeks actually have hardware preferences that go far beyond simple minded things like performance.

The old I disagree with you so you're delusional attitude is very goon-like.

 

[max¥¥]

i see a lot of people saying how unreliable G5's are, i simply don't agree i have a dp 2.5ghz as of yet the lcs hasn't leaked a drop, abd the psu hasn't exploded, i think these horror storys of these g5's come mainly from people buying ones that have been used pretty much constantley since they where brought and had not been properly maintained (e.g. have not ever had the dust cleaned out), now im not saying properly maintained, barley used G5's never brake, just my one (which has been barley used and cleaned out regularly) is working grate and is not showing any signs of stopping.

I agree with people who would rather spend £1000+ on a g4 than getting a £200-300 pc, the 10 year old mac is just better, for example my 500mhz ibook G3 with 384mb or ram obliterates 72 under 6 month old pc's with dual core 2.93Ghz intec cpu's and 4gb of ram we built at school (they are already starting to brake)

 

[zen.state]

Re: G5

This link holds a lot of great data on G5 towers and their reliability.
http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

Easily the most troublesome Mac tower ever. The first dual 2.0GHz was repaired above 30%. Thats huge. Anything above 2-3% is considered pretty bad.

G5's range from 11-32% in system repairs. I will find another page I saw once for G4 towers failure rate. The highest one was the MDD but was only at 6%. The Sawtooth (my fav.) was under 2%.

 

[Nameci]

PowerPC Macs, are longer lasting... all of the PC's that were bought a couple of years later than my PowerMac G3 were not working anymore and were trashed. PowerMac G3 still chugging along.

 

[max¥¥]

Re: G5

This link holds a lot of great data on G5 towers and their reliability.
http://www.macintouch.com/reliability/pmg5.html

Easily the most troublesome Mac tower ever. The first dual 2.0GHz was repaired above 30%. Thats huge. Anything above 2-3% is considered pretty bad.

G5's range from 11-32% in system repairs. I will find another page I saw once for G4 towers failure rate. The highest one was the MDD but was only at 6%. The Sawtooth (my fav.) was under 2%.

Mabey i am just lucky, my g5 has spent most of it's life in storage at my dad's work (which i may be getting a g4 imac from soon ), anyway when it brakes (which i accept it probably will) im just gonna repair it, I do agree the g4's are rock solid, my server is a sawtooth (has been running 24/7 since november 10, only crashes where because of a bad usb2 card) and my media center is a g4 macmini

 

[JoeG4]

The funny thing about the G5s is they are at first glance built really well. There's not a single gummy capacitor (the kind that like to blow after a few years) to be found ANYWHERE. It seems that the majority of failures either come from the power supply, thermal sensors, or the memory controller failing.

I can't entirely figure out why either. Most of them have 600W ACBel power supplies - I had an AcBel in my Quicksilver G4 and that machine ran 24/7 for about 6 years (with a couple of 2 day breaks for maintenance). I had a Vaio with an AcBel power supply in it as well, and that machine still works (13-14 years later!) It never ran 24/7 but I really used it.

Maybe Apple's engineers made a bad choice when they decided to run the fans so slow in the machine.

I'm using a working G5 at the moment - a 2nd gen Dual 2GHz. I'm convinced one of the thermal sensors is going to fail someday, but it runs fine as it is. Truth is, I feel kinda sorry to part out and sell a machine like this. XD

Much against my better judgement, too >>

Meanwhile, I feel worse about my MDD G4 - I bought it NEW 2 years ago, and although the HD I have in it right now is a piece of junk it runs fine. Problem that loud shill WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH noise it makes. A week of constant use and I want to go at it office space style.

So I'm not sure. Maybe I'll part the G5 out, sell the G4 for some cash, sell some other odds and ends and hopefully have enough to afford a Mac Mini? But then I'd have to sell my ADC monitors and get something that runs off it! Crap!

The power supplies nuking out is what gets me though. I've never heard of a G4 power supply failing but it seems as if the G5 power supply failure rate is as high as 50% after 5-7 years. Yikes!

That said, I'm going to say Apple should've considered that a usable lifetime for a tower like this is about 10-12 years. No joke. I still see a lot of PowerMac G4s in operation in places like my college! Come to think of it, they have 2 labs full of G5s that are still in use too. XD

 

[zen.state]

Even at 32% most don't die. It's not like every single one is a time bomb or anything. I would say any 2003-04 model that still runs is definitely a good one.

 

[max¥¥]

Even at 32% most don't die. It's not like every single one is a time bomb or anything. I would say any 2003-04 model that still runs is definitely a good one.

like mine, from june 2004, my only complaint is that it sounds like a jet engine unlike my g4's which are near silent , it was kinda funny the outher day, i put a cd in my g5 and got this ka-thunk noise, seems the cd somehow slipped of the spindle, now it has a light-scribe dl burner in it

 

[JoeG4]

lol a ka-thunk noise. I'm using my "new" G5 with a 40GB IBM hard drive that came with my G4 MDD. That means, that the optical drive is sitting on the floor next to the G5 and the 40GB drive is making a bit of a racket sitting upside down on the top shelf. XD

I've taken it apart 2 or 3 times checking on that whole fan/heatsink situation, on the plus side I can now pull it apart and put it back together about as fast as Forrest Gump rebuilds his gun.

My G5 is fairly quiet to the point you generally just hear the hard drive, but every 10 minutes or so the fans roar for a split second and go back to normal.

Oh yea, you know how the fans roar with the door off? If you put the processors in the wrong order they will roar even louder than that! Seriously though, I think this machine just needed love. When I bought it, the RAM was installed in the wrong order so only 1/3 of it was being detected and one of the fan modules was just sitting in the case unplugged (you know, the one that is a total pain in the ass to plug in!)

 

[MacHamster68]

the main problem is not really G5 related , today people accept failure rates of just below 20% in electronic equipment and consider that as reliable and above average
i mean my granny has a fridge build by bosch in the early 60's and is still working fine without a problem , it might use a bit more energy then a modern one , but how long are modern fridges lasting ..5 years if you are lucky
i had some fridges which did not even last 2 years , ok they are cheaper now then they had been when my granny bought hers ,but quality still has a price , but companies want to make as much profit as they can today , not only apple
abd the consumer still believes for $2000 you get high quality build computers
but they forget that these $2000 they payed in say 2002 for the PowerMac G4 are in todays money just half at most , its only because the wages did not rise in the same way as the inflation , so people still think that is expensive , and dont realize that only the profit margin did stay the same but the parts got really cheap now for the manufacturers as everything comes form asia now for a fraction of the cost in the past ,
so the manufacturers make despite the inflation more profits then ever , because the items they produce will not last long , and its not in the interest of apple or any other company if the product you buy will last 20 years and longer
and for apple who had realized that people hang on to their old G4 Mac's had been and are still usable, so apple did need to find a way to force people to buy new Mac's , on way was to switch to intel and that did not really help much , but the next idea snow leopard did really force a lot to upgrade , so people have no choice other then to buy new and the software industry helps with new programs needing more processing power then ever before so people have to upgrade more often , so a new iMac became a throw away item like a plastic bag and 2 years down the line becomes obsolete because one or the other program just needs more processing power in 2 years time, but not becaue the program can do more , no in most cases its just the GUI that needs more processing power today then the same program with a less flashy GUI did need altogether 5 years ago , and people just want click and go programs , they dont want to look for perferences any more or where to adjust settings , and a lot dont even know what a terminal is for at all , click and go is the way people learn today to work with the computer , and they know because they get told so by the industry the program they bought now will be not up to standard in a years time and the new version will need a higher spec computer then anyway to work efficient, and these things had been different while you could in 2002 use a program just with minimum requirements , but today the minimum requirements will just crawl along and render a program near unusable

so if you got a G4 today i would invest in a 4778 processor upgrade which sounds expensive , but i would have the reliability which later Mac's wont have , so buying a sawtooth today and upgrade for a couple hundred $ makes it faster and in economic points more sense if you can live with programs that are already older like office 2004 for Mac instead of needing 2011 ,then buying a new iMac to run office 2011 which might not even last a year before mayor parts need replacing , ok there is apple care that pay for that , but i dont know for me that does not make sense if i have to buy apple care because i know the Mac i just bought for $2000 which still is a lot of money ,will break down more likely then the sawtooth

 

[Nameci]

+1 more than agree. That is why up until I hold to on, and prefer old PPC Macs. Yes these things fail, but I know where to find the issue and fix them. With my PowerMac G4 I am only waiting for the HDD to fail and probably replace it with an SSD. Last week, the thing just freeze up. HDD was very noisy, kind of noise that the head is searching for something on the platter and could not find it. I have verified disk in disk utility and there was some error and first aid could not fix it. Erased HDD, pop in the install disk and restored from time machine backup. Now it is running great, this is posted using the said the PowerMac G4. If only apple could just "compile" Snow leopard" and all the developers could just compile their apps in PCC as well, this thing could last at least for the next 5 years or so.

We really don't need faster processor to accomplish a certain task, what we need are apps that are optimized, and who needs flashy GUI and eye candy anyway?

 

[WGoins88]

I love both of my G4s. They both do everything I need them to do. Internet (Forums, facebook, ebay, etc), Email, watching DVDs, Youtube, videos on CNN and other sites, a few games, burning the occasional CD or DVD, and that's about it.

I don't game, video/audio edit, photoshop, or anything like that, therefore my 1.0 Dual MDD and my 1.42 eMac work just fine for me. I MIGHT step up to a Intel Mini or tower (When they get somewhat cheaper) in about 2-3 years, but certainly not anytime soon unless I am forced to.

HOWEVER, coming from a PC standpoint (I used to use PCs AND Macs, my Dad has a Dell laptop, and sisters have a tower), I do agree that the PPC guys are being "pushed off the cliff". Most Windows programs and such that aren't graphics intensive can STILL run on a 800+ MHz P3 or higher with Windows 98 or 2000. On the other hand, almost any program that comes out for a Mac now requires an Intel processor with at least 10.6 installed, which does essentially "push away" the PPC owners.

I actually almost bought a 1.6 PCI G5 tower, thinking I was getting something better. Good thing I didn't... the Geekbench score was no better than the 1.0 Dual I am on now, and it's still "just" a old (As some call them) PPC that won't run many new programs.

But, like I said... my G4 works fine for daily use, and I'll use it until I can't use it anymore. It's not old if it still works fine!

 

[chrismacguy]

HOWEVER, coming from a PC standpoint (I used to use PCs AND Macs, my Dad has a Dell laptop, and sisters have a tower), I do agree that the PPC guys are being "pushed off the cliff". Most Windows programs and such that aren't graphics intensive can STILL run on a 800+ MHz P3 or higher with Windows 98 or 2000

err No they dont. Nearly all programs these days require Windows XP. I havent seen new software come out for years that supports Windows 98, as it is ridiculously old (Heck, its not even supported as a "Legacy" product). While a few things ask for 2000 SP4, a lot more want XP/XPSP2, however the CPU requirement is about right, although enough stuff asks for 2.0Ghz or higher even if it doesnt need it.

 

[Toronto Mike]

I'd like to ask a general question regarding the longevity of my G5 with the internet.

The trend nowadays seems to have companies wanting to push us to upgrade by changing the technical requirements for the hardware to run on. My G5 runs Tiger 10.4.11. Since many of my graphic/photography programs require that operating system, this is where the line in drawn for me.

I love my G5 and what my programs can do for me. My biggest concern is being able to interface with the internet in the future.

What can I expect in the future regarding my ability to use the internet with the G5? Apple's latest Safari release, Safari 5, has dropped support for the Tiger. What is likely to happen down the road for users such as us? They still want to sell us stuff on the internet. In 10 years, do you think it likely for my G5 to still use the internet?

Your thoughts would be most appreciated.

MIke

 

[mabaker]

I'd like to ask a general question regarding the longevity of my G5 with the internet.

The trend nowadays seems to have companies wanting to push us to upgrade by changing the technical requirements for the hardware to run on. My G5 runs Tiger 10.4.11. Since many of my graphic/photography programs require that operating system, this is where the line in drawn for me.

I love my G5 and what my programs can do for me. My biggest concern is being able to interface with the internet in the future.

What can I expect in the future regarding my ability to use the internet with the G5? Apple's latest Safari release, Safari 5, has dropped support for the Tiger. What is likely to happen down the road for users such as us? They still want to sell us stuff on the internet. In 10 years, do you think it likely for my G5 to still use the internet?

Your thoughts would be most appreciated.

MIke

Don’t worry, Mike, as much as Apple tried to kill PPC as fast as possible you will still be able to browse the web in the next 3-5 years on your PPC machine.

Remember, even youtube now supports Flash Player 8 minimum. PPC folks got Flash Player 10.1 which is working decently on all the G5s so if Flash videos are your concern, fear no more! Of course considering Flash will still be well and alive in 3 years.

Firefox 4 will be released for Leopard, as well, the beta is working on Tiger, too.

Opera will be discontinuing the support for PPC soon, too but being able to run Safari with extensions on Leopard you will be 100% future proof - AdBlock, ClickToFlash and HTML5 audio extensions will make your G5 feel like new.

Oh, and yes, do upgrade your G5 to Leopard - it’s a new life breathed into the sleek machine, believe me. This month I upgraded my iMacG5 to Leo and it’s flying.

 

[Tailpike1153]

Hi, just wondered what other PowerPC users feel about the fact that upgrades to the OS can't go higher than 10.5.

Have just been reading about OS Lion's upcoming release, and it frustrates me that sooner or later I will have perfectly functioning hardware forced into retirement due to the inevitable need to keep up with new versions of OS.

Just interested if others accept this as inevitable progress, or, like me, wonder whether Apple's decision to withdraw support for the PowerPC is more marketing based than technology driven.

Thanks!

I don't feel abandoned. I've been around and used many iterations of Apple/Mac computers. You can still use you Mac well after the last official upgrade. I still have my G4 and Color classic. Thankfully the G4 can run CS3, when I need to down my iMac for upgrade or maintainance...I have a backup machine. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles but it still gets the job done.

 

[zen.state]

I'd like to ask a general question regarding the longevity of my G5 with the internet.

The trend nowadays seems to have companies wanting to push us to upgrade by changing the technical requirements for the hardware to run on. My G5 runs Tiger 10.4.11. Since many of my graphic/photography programs require that operating system, this is where the line in drawn for me.

I love my G5 and what my programs can do for me. My biggest concern is being able to interface with the internet in the future.

What can I expect in the future regarding my ability to use the internet with the G5? Apple's latest Safari release, Safari 5, has dropped support for the Tiger. What is likely to happen down the road for users such as us? They still want to sell us stuff on the internet. In 10 years, do you think it likely for my G5 to still use the internet?

Your thoughts would be most appreciated.

MIke

At first I actually thought your post was a joke.

Of course your G5 will be able to interface with the internet. Some people are still using System 6/7 in the Mac world for internet machines. Those OS's came out as long ago as 1988.

Your G5 will be able to access the net just fine for as long as it lives. Full HTML5 support is in Safari 4+ which runs on 10.4+

I also recommend that you upgrade to 10.5. On a G5 it will feel a bit faster than 10.4 and is also able to run current software. 10.5 also has advanced socket layer security which helps a lot with internet security. Even 10.4 is up to Vista or XP standards net/tech wise on the other side of the coin.

 

[Toronto Mike]

Thank you Mabaker and Zen.state for your timely response.

I'm afraid to move from Tiger to Leopard because I have a few plug-ins and programs written for Tiger. If its not broken....

Your thoughts about further years of use are reassuring. I want to stay with what I have for as long as possible. The only things that would force me off the G5 would be professional printers not being able to read my CS4 files, and access to the use of the internet. All the programs I have are superb and more than enough for what I use my computer for. I've stocked up on a spare power supply, and picked up a spare fully functioning identical used G5 (they go for very reasonable prices nowadays) so that in the event of my current machine frying out, bang, just boot from my cloned hard drive and I'm back in business.

The problem with getting a new computer, apart from the major expense, is that they have made it so you cannot load all your old software. I have spent far more on my software than that hardware. As someone with modest professional needs I cannot afford to be on the treadmill. Also, a not so minor point, is how much time do you need to learn all the nuances of a new program? It is quite considerable when programers have this obsessive need to keep changing where all the buttons are in the programs and the order at which the same tasks are executed.

Thanks once again for your insights. I just want to save money in the long run if I can still accomplish the same work with what I have. A computer, after all, is just a glorified tool. It's too bad you cannot keep them for as long as you would a hammer or fine screwdriver.

Mike

 

[chrismacguy]

I'm afraid to move from Tiger to Leopard because I have a few plug-ins and programs written for Tiger. If its not broken....

If necessary, you can always have them both installed, on different partitions. That way your Tiger programs will still work just fine under Tiger, you can then mess with 10.5, see if they work, if they do great, if not, you still have them under the Tiger install, and you can use Safari 5 under 10.5.8 for any websites that require it in the future.

 

[mabaker]

Thank you Mabaker and Zen.state for your timely response.

I'm afraid to move from Tiger to Leopard because I have a few plug-ins and programs written for Tiger. If its not broken....

Your thoughts about further years of use are reassuring. I want to stay with what I have for as long as possible. The only things that would force me off the G5 would be professional printers not being able to read my CS4 files, and access to the use of the internet. All the programs I have are superb and more than enough for what I use my computer for. I've stocked up on a spare power supply, and picked up a spare fully functioning identical used G5 (they go for very reasonable prices nowadays) so that in the event of my current machine frying out, bang, just boot from my cloned hard drive and I'm back in business.

The problem with getting a new computer, apart from the major expense, is that they have made it so you cannot load all your old software. I have spent far more on my software than that hardware. As someone with modest professional needs I cannot afford to be on the treadmill. Also, a not so minor point, is how much time do you need to learn all the nuances of a new program? It is quite considerable when programers have this obsessive need to keep changing where all the buttons are in the programs and the order at which the same tasks are executed.

Thanks once again for your insights. I just want to save money in the long run if I can still accomplish the same work with what I have. A computer, after all, is just a glorified tool. It's too bad you cannot keep them for as long as you would a hammer or fine screwdriver.

Mike

I think it’s safe to say, Mike, that you can stay with Tiger for the immediate future. Printing and browser experience will remain unchanged for some time to come as you can see from some user experiences here. I wouldn’t have any worries whatsoever if I were you especially considering that there are pros out there running CS1 and earlier even on MacOS9 to get their job done!

You put your money into that gorgeous Mac, get its worth by making it last long. Nothing wrong with that. It actually is rather refreshing attitude around here.

 

[Toronto Mike]

If necessary, you can always have them both installed, on different partitions. That way your Tiger programs will still work just fine under Tiger, you can then mess with 10.5, see if they work, if they do great, if not, you still have them under the Tiger install, and you can use Safari 5 under 10.5.8 for any websites that require it in the future.

That is a great idea to consider since I have a copy of Leopard fresh in the wrapped box. It would be an experiment to put on a partition in the second internal hard drive.

Thank you for the advice.

Mike

 

[KítscheñÇinqµe]

err No they dont. Nearly all programs these days require Windows XP. I havent seen new software come out for years that supports Windows 98, as it is ridiculously old (Heck, its not even supported as a "Legacy" product). While a few things ask for 2000 SP4, a lot more want XP/XPSP2, however the CPU requirement is about right, although enough stuff asks for 2.0Ghz or higher even if it doesnt need it.

a lot of current versions of win32 apps run on 9x.
opera and kmeleon run on win9x, though opera 9 was the last i personally ran on 350mhz k6-2 (cheesier than pII based celeron) win98se. opera 10 and 11 seem significantly more bloated. kmeleon might have been 1.5.3, little different from current kmeleon.
i don't use 9x anymore, but read about it (interest? amusement?)
check the unofficial 9x area of msfn. also "kernelex". Without kernelex, the biggest lack is av -- afaik, 9x will run only clamwin (optionally with sentinel).

2k
i think there are similar 'unofficial' support/patch people for win2k.

xp
just a hunch, but xp sp2 requirement might be for .net apps. (digression. ms updates require sp3 for x86 or sp2 for 64bit.)

as with other oses, win apps tend to need ram, rather than cpu *hz.
yt vids are small, so no trouble for old pcs.
avoid startup lag by avoiding startup scan option of retail security bloatware, or stay with original size hdd .

earlier p3 (pc100, like a g3 or early g4), xp, 512+mb: sketchup7, 2d cad, but true rendering (kerkythea) is hopeless :-/

 

[Cox Orange]

Even at 32% most don't die. It's not like every single one is a time bomb or anything. I would say any 2003-04 model that still runs is definitely a good one.

I do think that, too. It's like saying, if it did not fail until now, there is a fair chance that it will last even longer. So one is saver buying a used Mac maybe (that goes for Intel-Macs as well, I think. If an Intel-Mac survived his apple-care period without failure, it will most likely be ok).

There is a second thing that comes to mind, too. I think there are far more bad ones reported on the internet than good ones. Because someone who doesn't complain, would not go and tell "I just wanted to tell, my G4 is fine". So even at Mac-Intouch, they maybe got more feedback from owners of defective ones, than others. One would have to know how many Macs were sold and how many were reported to apple having failed.

...
i mean my granny has a fridge build by bosch in the early 60's and is still working fine without a problem , it might use a bit more energy then a modern one , but how long are modern fridges lasting ..5 years if you are lucky...

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I heard something that I believe is true. In order to make more profit they build crappy ones, so that everyone has to buy something new more often. I heard this from a reliable source (if you like I will tell).
You can even prove it on the internet, there is a software on the internet that disables a ROM in Epson printers. The ROM tells the printer to stop working after a number of pages or hours on power. If you eliminate that special ROM, it works again like new.
There is also a light bulb in America, that is the oldest in the world and it still works (unfortunately they lost the information what material and process was used to make it that durable). The industries then told there technicians to built bulbs that meet a requirement. The requirement was, that it should not longer last than 1000h. On the other hand in east Germany under the socialist-government, they forced the industry to built bulbs that have to last 25 years, because they were low on raw material and wanted to make their "planned economy" be consistent in itself. When thy wanted to sell their products to the economically "free" west Germany they got told, that West G. will not import them because it interferes with the interests of the "free economy"