Umm.... my Rev. A Dual 2Ghz G5 is handling Leopard without a problem at all...
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PowerPC Support in Mac OS X 10.6 After All?
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Umm.... my Rev. A Dual 2Ghz G5 is handling Leopard without a problem at all...
The reason I see 10.6 dropping PPC is that it looks like it may be a multi-touch OS.
Even if its not, the only PPC Macs that are able to run Leopard really really smoothly (and therefore will run 10.6 pretty well) are the G5s, and to be honest, they make up quite a small proportion of the OSX userbase; only the iMacs and PMs went G5.
Even if its not, the only PPC Macs that are able to run Leopard really really smoothly (and therefore will run 10.6 pretty well) are the G5s, and to be honest, they make up quite a small proportion of the OSX userbase; only the iMacs and PMs went G5.
10.5 is running well with a Rev. A dual 1.8Ghz G5 here too. i can't imagine that it wouldn't run well on a G5. perhaps 10.6 will simply phase out the PPC G4s but will still utilize the 64bit G5s.
ironically x86 has it's 30th birthday today despite being called dead already 20 years ago
x86 still has enough years (very likely decades) ahead of itself ... and no platform is close in replacing it on the desktop .. especially with the current intel roadmap
..hmm, i don't care..becoz my next laptop will be an apple's. But again i do have sympathy for those who still own G4 and G5 though.
however, if u are saying that u cannot afford the modern mac models, then u are being ridiculously fake. People who owns a mac are usually have good education and probably a good job too Seriously, im not being prototyping, but i feel it's true. So u should consider changing your job now lol
however, if u are saying that u cannot afford the modern mac models, then u are being ridiculously fake. People who owns a mac are usually have good education and probably a good job too Seriously, im not being prototyping, but i feel it's true. So u should consider changing your job now lol
Wahey
I certainly haven't been using the AppleCare argument based on any contractual requirement, and I doubt others have, it's simply because 3 years is a nice amount of time and supporting hardware in new releases until the end of its extended warranty seems like a decent way to go.
if it is more a performance and stability improvement rather than a matter of new features, I don't see why it couldn't run better than 10.5 on PPC. In which case it would be an incentive for customers with older machines to pay for the upgrade, rather than sit it out and wait for their machine to break down and get replaced. Apple sells it's OS (again), the customer gets more life from his 3-4 year-"old" machine, everybody's happy?
Also, why did Apple just recently buy a company specialized in designing PPC-cpu's if they're about to drop all support? Apple - obviously - still sees potential for the PPC in the future. Low power mobile platforms perhaps?
P.S.: I like the new codename
Also, why did Apple just recently buy a company specialized in designing PPC-cpu's if they're about to drop all support? Apple - obviously - still sees potential for the PPC in the future. Low power mobile platforms perhaps?
P.S.: I like the new codename
Why should they drop PPC support if it is basically free for them? That is, they obviously have optimized compilers (GCC4) that target both PPC and x86 machines, so why not just click an extra check box? Obviously, they aren't going to support PPC machines themselves, with new firmware updates and the like, but the OS is already multi-platform. It makes little sense to spend the extra time specifically ensuring that OS X is only single-platform from here on out.
That said, I'm sure all of their time, compiler-wise, will be spent optimizing for the x86/SSE platform, so PPC owners aren't likely to see too many speed boosts in whatever 10.6 becomes.
As for the eventual death of x86: I think we've seen that x86 is pretty much un-killable in the computer industry. It may not be the most efficient architecture possible in theory, but it is here to stay and people have done some amazing things with it (now with SSE/2/3/4/5/6 and AMDx86-64). Even Intel thought they could replace x86 with IA-64; but 8 years later, x86-64 is alive with an ever increasing market and Itanium is as dead as a bag of rocks. I feel that some derivative of x86 will still be around when I am an old fussy greybeard.
That said, I'm sure all of their time, compiler-wise, will be spent optimizing for the x86/SSE platform, so PPC owners aren't likely to see too many speed boosts in whatever 10.6 becomes.
As for the eventual death of x86: I think we've seen that x86 is pretty much un-killable in the computer industry. It may not be the most efficient architecture possible in theory, but it is here to stay and people have done some amazing things with it (now with SSE/2/3/4/5/6 and AMDx86-64). Even Intel thought they could replace x86 with IA-64; but 8 years later, x86-64 is alive with an ever increasing market and Itanium is as dead as a bag of rocks. I feel that some derivative of x86 will still be around when I am an old fussy greybeard.
My Digital Audio handles Leopard just about as well as it does Tiger. i dont see the system straining to run it or to be useful.
it's testing and support...
It's a lot more than a "check box" - the PPC code has to be tested across the range of supported hardware, tech support has to be trained on PPC issues, bug fixes have to be made and tested on both platforms, performance optimizations need to be done on both (SSE/AltiVec) ....
There's also the cost of fat binaries - cost in disk space (if you had an MBA with the solid state disk you'd really be aware of this), network bandwidth for updates, more testing.
When Apple drops PPC/x86 support completely (I'd bet on 10.7 for this, not 10.6) you can be assured that they'll still do the development builds to keep the code multi-platform clean and to have a backup strategy. Just like the OSX Intel was being built for years with few people knowing about it, hidden builds of PPC will continue after the support is removed from the released system.
It's a lot more than a "check box" - the PPC code has to be tested across the range of supported hardware, tech support has to be trained on PPC issues, bug fixes have to be made and tested on both platforms, performance optimizations need to be done on both (SSE/AltiVec) ....
There's also the cost of fat binaries - cost in disk space (if you had an MBA with the solid state disk you'd really be aware of this), network bandwidth for updates, more testing.
When Apple drops PPC/x86 support completely (I'd bet on 10.7 for this, not 10.6) you can be assured that they'll still do the development builds to keep the code multi-platform clean and to have a backup strategy. Just like the OSX Intel was being built for years with few people knowing about it, hidden builds of PPC will continue after the support is removed from the released system.
IMO, it would have been a smart move to drop PPC support.
Intel is the new way to go. Either upgrade if you want a new OS, or stick with Tiger or Leopard. It's called progress people.
Let me think... oh yeah I remembered.. when apple announced that they are moving to intel, everyone, including MR, whined about it "why intel? they are dark force" and now you guys want to drop PPC that you guys once beloved?
haha I find this hilarious.
Same here, my G4 dual 1.42 powermac does handle Leopard as well, pretty smoothly and no sluggy at all. I already maxed out the 2GB of ram when I first bought it (not from apple.. just crucial.com)
..hmm, i don't care..becoz my next laptop will be an apple's. But again i do have sympathy for those who still own G4 and G5 though.
however, if u are saying that u cannot afford the modern mac models, then u are being ridiculously fake. People who owns a mac are usually have good education and probably a good job too Seriously, im not being prototyping, but i feel it's true. So u should consider changing your job now lol
I assumed that the guy you are referring to is probably working at mcDeath or even worse- Walmart. haha
My Intel Mac Pro won't handle even OS 10.5.3
Apple needs to get their current OS 10.5.3 to run in a somewhat stable manner. My copy will only run for over 10-15 minutes at the Apple store connected to 1 15" VGA display. My current version of Mac OS 10.5.3 that is connected to my Intel Mac Pro has only the included in the OS install plus Kensington MouseWorks & MS Office 2004. That is it. Any attempt to add any additional software freezes the system, when at home.
I have 10.5.3 running on my PPC 17" PowerBook. The OS is doing a little better on the PPC than it is on my Intel Mac, but not much better. I haven't been able to do any useful work on my PPC Mac just as I haven't been able to any useful work on my Intel Mac. But at least the PPC Mac doesn't freeze every 1-15 minutes.
Mac OS 10.5 has ended support for my Macs. I'd like to see Mac OS 10.6 add back support for both my PPC & Intel Macs. At the present time I know my people that own PPC Macs than those that own Intel Macs. I'm sure that a few of those would eventually like to change to a newer operating system. I no longer will use the term "upgrade" when discussing OS 10.5 or 10.6 when comparing it to OS 10.3 or 10.4. To me upgrade means that one is changing to a better system. OS upgrades need to work on both PPC Macs & Intel Macs alike. This insures that the maximum number of Macs can use any new software that becomes available. This would give a larger market to help develop more Mac software developers More software never hurts anything.
Your idea of barely working & my idea of barely working make or may not be different, but I don't think that se should be the ones alone to determine whether the new Mac OS would include real support for both the PPC & intel Macs or not. That is a question that should be allowed to be answered by the whole Mac User base. In reality that decision will be made by Apple. With Steve Jobs history of killing support for an old technology when a new technology comes out makes me surprised to see that there was support fot the PPC Mac in Mac OS 10.5.
The PPC Mac still does a lot of useful work & will for a long time to come. It would be nice is those many Mac Users could be the ones to determine whether they want a new OS for their computers.
Bill the TaxMan
Apple needs to get their current OS 10.5.3 to run in a somewhat stable manner. My copy will only run for over 10-15 minutes at the Apple store connected to 1 15" VGA display. My current version of Mac OS 10.5.3 that is connected to my Intel Mac Pro has only the included in the OS install plus Kensington MouseWorks & MS Office 2004. That is it. Any attempt to add any additional software freezes the system, when at home.
I have 10.5.3 running on my PPC 17" PowerBook. The OS is doing a little better on the PPC than it is on my Intel Mac, but not much better. I haven't been able to do any useful work on my PPC Mac just as I haven't been able to any useful work on my Intel Mac. But at least the PPC Mac doesn't freeze every 1-15 minutes.
Mac OS 10.5 has ended support for my Macs. I'd like to see Mac OS 10.6 add back support for both my PPC & Intel Macs. At the present time I know my people that own PPC Macs than those that own Intel Macs. I'm sure that a few of those would eventually like to change to a newer operating system. I no longer will use the term "upgrade" when discussing OS 10.5 or 10.6 when comparing it to OS 10.3 or 10.4. To me upgrade means that one is changing to a better system. OS upgrades need to work on both PPC Macs & Intel Macs alike. This insures that the maximum number of Macs can use any new software that becomes available. This would give a larger market to help develop more Mac software developers More software never hurts anything.
Your idea of barely working & my idea of barely working make or may not be different, but I don't think that se should be the ones alone to determine whether the new Mac OS would include real support for both the PPC & intel Macs or not. That is a question that should be allowed to be answered by the whole Mac User base. In reality that decision will be made by Apple. With Steve Jobs history of killing support for an old technology when a new technology comes out makes me surprised to see that there was support fot the PPC Mac in Mac OS 10.5.
The PPC Mac still does a lot of useful work & will for a long time to come. It would be nice is those many Mac Users could be the ones to determine whether they want a new OS for their computers.
Bill the TaxMan
I just bought an epson desktop printer to replace an older printer that just broke down. The new drivers do not support any OS below 10.4.
Next year's print drivers may not support anything below 10.5.
The 2010 print drivers may require 10.6.
Peripherals and software stop becoming available to you as your system ages. Sure, the hardware may matter, but OS obsolescence matters even more-- and is avoidable.
I have made a considerable investment in my dual G5 machine, with an eye toward a long useful lifetime. I'd like to see some consideration from Apple toward protecting that investment, as they have done in the past. It is a rather too large and overly equipped hunk of machine to be relegated to net-surfing. Apple has generally been protective of their high-end (and high margin!) machines in the past; if they are changing their philosophy toward short usable lifetimes I am going to have to change my buying patterns toward buying cheaper, low-margin machines more frequently. More waste, and less profit for Apple.
Progress or Change?
Does that really mean Progress or does that really just mean change.
Bill the TaxMan
IMO, it would have been a smart move to drop PPC support.
Intel is the new way to go. Either upgrade if you want a new OS, or stick with Tiger or Leopard. It's called progress people.
Does that really mean Progress or does that really just mean change.
Bill the TaxMan
You are saying they should drop support for G5s a year early in order to save 200MB on solid state disk MBAs?
I'll bet you there are 3 orders of magnitude more users with G5s than there are with SSD MBAs. If Apple thought this way (and I'm sure they don't) they would deserve to lose share.
I know you gave more reasons, and I took this out of context; but I just had to blow this duck out of the water.
My little reality check:
Apple maintained an Intel version of OS X from 10.0 so it would be a bit queer that they can't keep PPC versions going for the 5 years Steve J mentioned.
PPC users were pretty good to Apple in the area of buying the new OS X new cats when they came out. At $129 a pop this loyalty brought in a fair chunk of change to Apple - especially considering the cost of goods sold per OS X box. I don't think that Apple will be willing to give up THAT revenue for a while yet.
Looking at the PPC base and their upgrade patterns (which Apple will know very well) I would find it hard to believe that PPC OS X upgrade revenues don't pay for the costs of maintaining PPC as part of OS X. Those revenues probably pay that cost many times over.
Leaving PPC users hanging and angry would be bad karma, which Steve J would probably like to avoid after the Vista screw up.
I can see Apple adding Intel only features in a limited manner, but believe that they will still have some form of Snow Leopard to sell to PPC users. That's good for cash inflow, profits and karma.
Good for me too.
You logic is spot-on. I could live with some fantabulous new feature being Intel-only, but the basic core functions in OS 10.6 will need to support PPC.
Just to make sure everyone understands: dropping PPC will not improve performance for x86. It will just take up less space. Not even that much. try trimthefat or xslimmer and you'll see.
What will impact performance is better code. Think Spotlight on Tiger vs Spotlight on Leopard. Newer and/or better algorithms can have a major impact.
What will impact performance is better code. Think Spotlight on Tiger vs Spotlight on Leopard. Newer and/or better algorithms can have a major impact.
spoken like an out of touch elitist...
whatever happened to mac users being a "community?" While APL's growth is fantastic for stockholders, some new mac users are slightly annoying because they spent most of their computing life up to this point on Windoze machines.
PPC vs. Intel, iPhone as a status symbol...makes me want to vomit. i just want to get work done on my fully loaded and terribly expensive G5. I've never run out of power for what I use it for, and refuse to upgrade until that happens. (because I cannot afford to) As a loyal Mac user, I expect OS's to be made available for my Mac until it is no longer feasible performance-wise. This is the way they have usually done things, and I don't expect that to change, despite what new Mac owners think or want or think they want. And I scoff at anyone who claims a dual-core macbook 2.0 with integrated graphics and a 5400 rpm drive (or for that matter one of those near useless Macbook Airs) can outperform a stock Quad g5, let alone one with fast boot drives, lots of RAM, and the best vid card available.
this is boring. Im going to follow the keynote now.
Not having to maintain PPC code, however, frees resources that can be devoted to better code.
So the net result, over time, can be better x64 performance.
And, of course, dropping x86 support means that all code can be compiled using the potentially faster x64 ISA.
Not really. The codebase should be exactly the same. It just gets compiled twice or even three times (PPC, x86 and IA-64). (the kernel might be an exception).
I'd be very disappointed with Apple if they dropped PPC support in their next release.
My machine, a 1.33ghz, maxed-out and well loved 12" Alu PowerBook G4 runs Leopard *perfectly* and at very reasonable speeds.
I do all my work on this machine, including Photoshop work.
No need to upgrade for now, as I am 100% pleased with the performance of my machine.
So please make 10.6 compatible with PPC.
My machine, a 1.33ghz, maxed-out and well loved 12" Alu PowerBook G4 runs Leopard *perfectly* and at very reasonable speeds.
I do all my work on this machine, including Photoshop work.
No need to upgrade for now, as I am 100% pleased with the performance of my machine.
So please make 10.6 compatible with PPC.