PPC Firewire External Boot Issue

Carbongrip

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 8, 2014
7
0
Hey everyone, found this site and decided to post here as posting on apples forums will get me the whole upgrade your mac rather than fix the issue. I got news for them I also have a intel macbook pro and cant stand the yosemite piece of **** on it. Anywho away from my rant and to the question, I have a imac g4 17" 800mhz system... used one firewire drive with a dmg of os 10.5 leopard and installed to another firewire drive. Installed fine but didnt show the drive in the boot menu as bootable. I started trouble shooting and decided since I have a backup of the dmg on my laptop I would carbon copy clone the new install over to the drive I knew was working and booted installer from. Then went to boot menu and sure enough the drive that I was using for installer that now had the clone of the drive I installed on was recognized and booted os leopard 10.5 just fine and I am using right now. Anyone know why one drive works for booting and not the other? Also both did have Apple format used for powerpc's.

My thoughts in order from greatest to least probable...
1. Western Digital Smarware Software Crap that there even after reformat
2. Maybe its because the drive that doesnt boot is going firewire 800 to 400?
3. Drivers for Western Digital?

Any help would be great as I just am fresh out of ideas...
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,171
479
Elkton, Maryland
Hey everyone, found this site and decided to post here as posting on apples forums will get me the whole upgrade your mac rather than fix the issue. I got news for them I also have a intel macbook pro and cant stand the yosemite piece of **** on it. Anywho away from my rant and to the question, I have a imac g4 17" 800mhz system... used one firewire drive with a dmg of os 10.5 leopard and installed to another firewire drive. Installed fine but didnt show the drive in the boot menu as bootable. I started trouble shooting and decided since I have a backup of the dmg on my laptop I would carbon copy clone the new install over to the drive I knew was working and booted installer from. Then went to boot menu and sure enough the drive that I was using for installer that now had the clone of the drive I installed on was recognized and booted os leopard 10.5 just fine and I am using right now. Anyone know why one drive works for booting and not the other? Also both did have Apple format used for powerpc's.

My thoughts in order from greatest to least probable...
1. Western Digital Smarware Software Crap that there even after reformat
2. Maybe its because the drive that doesnt boot is going firewire 800 to 400?
3. Drivers for Western Digital?

Any help would be great as I just am fresh out of ideas...
Is the DMG confirmed to be a working rip of your Leopard DVD?
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,171
479
Elkton, Maryland
Yes, infact the drive thats working is a clone of the drive I first tried installing the os on that wouldnt show in boot menu.
Let me see if I understand this. You have a FireWire drive which contains the image of the Leopard installer. You are trying to restore the Leopard installer to another FireWire hard drive?
 

Carbongrip

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 8, 2014
7
0
Let me see if I understand this. You have a FireWire drive which contains the image of the Leopard installer. You are trying to restore the Leopard installer to another FireWire hard drive?
Nope, events went like this...
1. put dmg of installer on drive a
2. booted drive a and installed on drive b(other external)
3. drive b finished install
4. drive b failed to show in boot manager
5. I started troubleshooting
6. cloned drive b onto drive a
7. drive a(no longer contains installer)
8. drive a boots and shows in bootmenu using drive b's info
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,171
479
Elkton, Maryland
Nope, events went like this...
1. put dmg of installer on drive a
2. booted drive a and installed on drive b(other external)
3. drive b finished install
4. drive b failed to show in boot manager
5. I started troubleshooting
6. cloned drive b onto drive a
7. drive a(no longer contains installer)
8. drive a boots and shows in bootmenu using drive b's info
Oh... I understand now. It is possible that drive B would not show due to not properly being formatted in Apple Partition Map or that the drive is non-bootable due to not spooling up quick enough as the Mac does its sweep to find bootable devices. I have a couple of USB drives like that while most others work fine!
 

Carbongrip

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 8, 2014
7
0
Oh... I understand now. It is possible that drive B would not show due to not properly being formatted in Apple Partition Map or that the drive is non-bootable due to not spooling up quick enough as the Mac does its sweep to find bootable devices. I have a couple of USB drives like that while most others work fine!
Hmmmm... true but I just made sure its using APM and tried using the refresh button on boot manager and still doesnt show. I want it working as it has sleep mode and is a faster 7200rpm external. Does it have to do with the garbage western digital smartware always being on it or that it goes from 800 down to 400 firewire?
 

Altemose

macrumors G3
Mar 26, 2013
9,171
479
Elkton, Maryland
Hmmmm... true but I just made sure its using APM and tried using the refresh button on boot manager and still doesnt show. I want it working as it has sleep mode and is a faster 7200rpm external. Does it have to do with the garbage western digital smartware always being on it or that it goes from 800 down to 400 firewire?
Switching between the FW 800 to 400 should not matter. Perhaps try to reclone to drive B.
 

weckart

macrumors 603
Nov 7, 2004
5,005
2,259
What did you use to clone Leopard? In terms of reliability, I find

Superduper>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CarbonCopyCloner>>>Disk Utility.

All will clone but I have occasionally found the latter two failed to make the clone bootable.
 

tevion5

macrumors 68000
Jul 12, 2011
1,801
1,160
Ireland
Hey everyone, found this site and decided to post here as posting on apples forums will get me the whole upgrade your mac rather than fix the issue. I got news for them I also have a intel macbook pro and cant stand the yosemite piece of **** on it. Anywho away from my rant and to the question, I have a imac g4 17" 800mhz system... used one firewire drive with a dmg of os 10.5 leopard and installed to another firewire drive. Installed fine but didnt show the drive in the boot menu as bootable. I started trouble shooting and decided since I have a backup of the dmg on my laptop I would carbon copy clone the new install over to the drive I knew was working and booted installer from. Then went to boot menu and sure enough the drive that I was using for installer that now had the clone of the drive I installed on was recognized and booted os leopard 10.5 just fine and I am using right now. Anyone know why one drive works for booting and not the other? Also both did have Apple format used for powerpc's.

My thoughts in order from greatest to least probable...
1. Western Digital Smarware Software Crap that there even after reformat
2. Maybe its because the drive that doesnt boot is going firewire 800 to 400?
3. Drivers for Western Digital?

Any help would be great as I just am fresh out of ideas...
What's wrong with Yosemite? It's working great for me.
 

RedCroissant

Suspended
Aug 13, 2011
2,268
94
Hey everyone, found this site and decided to post here as posting on apples forums will get me the whole upgrade your mac rather than fix the issue. I got news for them I also have a intel macbook pro and cant stand the yosemite piece of **** on it. Anywho away from my rant and to the question, I have a imac g4 17" 800mhz system... used one firewire drive with a dmg of os 10.5 leopard and installed to another firewire drive. Installed fine but didnt show the drive in the boot menu as bootable. I started trouble shooting and decided since I have a backup of the dmg on my laptop I would carbon copy clone the new install over to the drive I knew was working and booted installer from. Then went to boot menu and sure enough the drive that I was using for installer that now had the clone of the drive I installed on was recognized and booted os leopard 10.5 just fine and I am using right now. Anyone know why one drive works for booting and not the other? Also both did have Apple format used for powerpc's.

My thoughts in order from greatest to least probable...
1. Western Digital Smarware Software Crap that there even after reformat
2. Maybe its because the drive that doesnt boot is going firewire 800 to 400?
3. Drivers for Western Digital?

Any help would be great as I just am fresh out of ideas...
What are the externals exactly? The reason I am asking is because there are external HDDs that, even though they have FW I/O, they still cannot be used to boot a PPC or Intel Mac. I found this out with a couple FW 400 WD externals a couple of years ago.

In fact, I just went bad and found the link that someone sent me regarding the WD drives that do not boot PPC Macs: Here's the link:

WD Drives NOT for PPC :-(
 
Last edited:

Carbongrip

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 8, 2014
7
0
What are the externals exactly? The reason I am asking is because there are external HDDs that, even though they have FW I/O, they still cannot be used to boot a PPC or Intel Mac. I found this out with a couple FW 400 WD externals a couple of years ago.

In fact, I just went bad and found the link that someone sent me regarding the WD drives that do not boot PPC Macs: Here's the link:

WD Drives NOT for PPC :-(
Nice find, mine was one that doesn't boot PPC, that's why the non western digital drive worked.

----------

What's wrong with Yosemite? It's working great for me.
Yosemite is like running ios on mac, awful transparency and thin text in menu bar. I only use old Macs now, I miss Steve Jobs, with him gone apple can die now, good old days are gone.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
Aug 31, 2011
22,080
14,796
ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
…I miss Steve Jobs, with him gone apple can die now, good old days are gone.
Good old days?

You mean the days before Steve killed the floppy drive with the iMac?
Or the days before Steve killed OS9 support with Tiger and permanently with Leopard?
Or what about the days when Steve killed labels and spring loaded folders in early versions of OS X?
Maybe the days before killing PowerPC and embracing Intel?
The days before killing Rosetta and Appletalk?
The days before Apple ignoring 17" PowerBook G4 owners with display defects? And then religiously deleting their posts from the Apple forums?
Or the same as above days for any other defect that Apple chose to ignore and prevent discussion of?

The days before "You're holding it wrong" antennagate?

All the while with Apple and Steve telling the customers to get bent, Apple is right and YOU the customer are WRONG.

Sorry. I'm a Steve Jobs fan as much as the next guy but having lived through "the good old days" I can't view it through rose colored glasses. Steve was no saint.
 

jbarley

macrumors 68040
Jul 1, 2006
3,863
1,712
Vancouver Island
Yosemite is like running ios on mac, awful transparency and thin text in menu bar. I only use old Macs now, I miss Steve Jobs, with him gone apple can die now, good old days are gone.
Yosemite's font issues can be resolved by replacing the system fonts with Lucida Grande for Yosemite, which can be found here.
 

SuperKerem

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2012
861
252
Good old days?

You mean the days before Steve killed the floppy drive with the iMac?
Or the days before Steve killed OS9 support with Tiger and permanently with Leopard?
Or what about the days when Steve killed labels and spring loaded folders in early versions of OS X?
Maybe the days before killing PowerPC and embracing Intel?
The days before killing Rosetta and Appletalk?
The days before Apple ignoring 17" PowerBook G4 owners with display defects? And then religiously deleting their posts from the Apple forums?
Or the same as above days for any other defect that Apple chose to ignore and prevent discussion of?

The days before "You're holding it wrong" antennagate?

All the while with Apple and Steve telling the customers to get bent, Apple is right and YOU the customer are WRONG.

Sorry. I'm a Steve Jobs fan as much as the next guy but having lived through "the good old days" I can't view it through rose colored glasses. Steve was no saint.
I don't see how any of these are bad things. Technology moves on, deal with it, Apple can support everything forever, and nothing is perfect. These things happened because the majority of people couldn't care less if OS 9 ran with Leopard or if Labels were killed off or whatever. PowerPC ran too hot to be used in next generation notebooks, Apple killed it off. PowerPC apps no longer ran efficiently using Rosetta and 99% of apps had been updated, Apple killed it off.
Floppy drives outdated and inefficient, Apple killed it off. I'm sure apple had some compensation for any faulty products, there is a 1 year warranty and then 3 years of applecare, nothing else to discuss. Everything was done for a reason.

Simplicity is at the core of Apple, so all unnecessary things will eventually be removed. Look at the new MacBook, one port for everything, and you're probably complaining about that as well. In this case Apple is right, 99% of consumers are right, you are wrong. I'm not trying to be rude, but after all Apple has done to push the technology industry forward these things are so insignificant!
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
Aug 31, 2011
22,080
14,796
ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
I don't see how any of these are bad things. Technology moves on, deal with it, Apple can support everything forever, and nothing is perfect. These things happened because the majority of people couldn't care less if OS 9 ran with Leopard or if Labels were killed off or whatever. PowerPC ran too hot to be used in next generation notebooks, Apple killed it off. PowerPC apps no longer ran efficiently using Rosetta and 99% of apps had been updated, Apple killed it off.
Floppy drives outdated and inefficient, Apple killed it off. I'm sure apple had some compensation for any faulty products, there is a 1 year warranty and then 3 years of applecare, nothing else to discuss. Everything was done for a reason.

Simplicity is at the core of Apple, so all unnecessary things will eventually be removed. Look at the new MacBook, one port for everything, and you're probably complaining about that as well. In this case Apple is right, 99% of consumers are right, you are wrong. I'm not trying to be rude, but after all Apple has done to push the technology industry forward these things are so insignificant!
My point was not to present myself as a supporter of dead technology or someone holding on to old things because I don't want to change.

My point was to say that Steve Jobs was human and that the good old days when he was alive were not this perfect picture we may like to paint. Steve presided over controversial issues and products no one liked as well.

As to warranty issues…if you've just bought something and are having a problem with it and Apple will not fix it (unless you pay) because they do not recognize it as a defect then what benefit is the warranty to you and what recourse do you have?
 

SuperKerem

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2012
861
252
My point was not to present myself as a supporter of dead technology or someone holding on to old things because I don't want to change.

My point was to say that Steve Jobs was human and that the good old days when he was alive were not this perfect picture we may like to paint. Steve presided over controversial issues and products no one liked as well.

As to warranty issues…if you've just bought something and are having a problem with it and Apple will not fix it (unless you pay) because they do not recognize it as a defect then what benefit is the warranty to you and what recourse do you have?
Apple have always provided a free 1 year warranty for all their products, which can optionally be extended with AppleCare. Apple is a business, and if the machine works fine for a year and then malfunctions, you knew your warranty was over after that 1 year, so you can't just blame Apple.

Also, I know Steve Jobs was human, and that he wasn't perfect etc etc etc. But without him phones wouldn't be the same, computers wouldn't be the same and nor would social media. The good things he has done dwarfs the 'controvertial' things he may have done. He may not have been perfect in some aspects, but he was pretty darn close.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Core
Aug 31, 2011
22,080
14,796
ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
Apple have always provided a free 1 year warranty for all their products, which can optionally be extended with AppleCare. Apple is a business, and if the machine works fine for a year and then malfunctions, you knew your warranty was over after that 1 year, so you can't just blame Apple.

Also, I know Steve Jobs was human, and that he wasn't perfect etc etc etc. But without him phones wouldn't be the same, computers wouldn't be the same and nor would social media. The good things he has done dwarfs the 'controvertial' things he may have done. He may not have been perfect in some aspects, but he was pretty darn close.
If you are outside of warranty, that is completely understandable. But if you purchased AC or are within warranty and a defect occurs within that time period that Apple denies as being a defect then you have no recourse.

As for Steve, I've laid out my opinion and am in general agreement with you. I think where we differ is the degree of regard we hold for him and the things he and Apple achieved when he was alive.
 

SuperKerem

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2012
861
252
If you are outside of warranty, that is completely understandable. But if you purchased AC or are within warranty and a defect occurs within that time period that Apple denies as being a defect then you have no recourse.

As for Steve, I've laid out my opinion and am in general agreement with you. I think where we differ is the degree of regard we hold for him and the things he and Apple achieved when he was alive.
Yeah, I get what you're saying and I understand that the PB defects may have been an inconvenience for some people, but at the end of the day, Apple is a business, and especially in its earlier years it couldn't really afford to lose money! After all, I don't think there is any company which has better customer support and customer satisfaction than Apple, a company which Steve made and developed into what it is now.
 
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