Preferred set up - Mac Mini or 27" iMac for HD Editing?

[martinX]

Then finding out that you have to render in final cut pro each time you want to preview your "transitions". Where in Sony Vegas you can preview without rendering.

I have 1080p footage (in Apple Intermediate Codec) on my FCE4 timeline and when running it as "Safe RT" about half the transitions are able to be previewed in real time. Switching to Unlimited RT and all of my transitions (including third party ones) can be previewed without rendering.

This is on a 24" iMac, one model before the current iMacs, 2.8 GHz Core2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 256 MB Radeon and running a (5h1tty) Dell 17" monitor for previews. Everything runs from the internal HD.

At work I have a similar setup running FCP6 and a Panasonic broadcast monitor for previews/corrections. Since it only does standard def, there's even less hassle.

Don't get hung up on transitions anyway. They are such a tiny tiny part of what you do. Cross dissolve rules!

 

[hoya87eagle91]

So What about all of those people who swear by the multi disk solution?

Thanks for the posts everyone. I appreciate the input.

Looks like the mini is workable but not a great solution and it's now down to a decision about the imac i5 or i7 or maybe a refurbed quad ( yes more than i need but i lke the internal expansion benefit to reduce desk clutter....)

So I wanted to ask everyone, does the single large internal drive of the speedy i5/i7 mean that all of the benefits I had read over time about having a dedicated disk ( a scratch disk? - not sure what that is exactly ) for editing video isn't really necessary anymore to speed up the editing process? Do I need to partition the drive of an i5/i7 to optimize performance. If so, how so?

JUst FYI in my current set up in my six year old G5 I currently have one boot / app drive and all photo, video, music content on the second internal drive. I back it up w/ a 7200 RPM Q-drive w/ FW800.

 

[martinX]

So I wanted to ask everyone, does the single large internal drive of the speedy i5/i7 mean that all of the benefits I had read over time about having a dedicated disk ( a scratch disk? - not sure what that is exactly ) for editing video isn't really necessary anymore to speed up the editing process?

I'd like to know that, too. For ease of use administration and backup, I have everything - on both my work iMac and home iMac - on the internal HD with an even bigger external USB HD as a Time Machine. I do SD at work and HD at home and doing everything on the internal HDs doesn't seem to be causing any issues...

 

[icrude]

I'd like to know that, too. For ease of use administration and backup, I have everything - on both my work iMac and home iMac - on the internal HD with an even bigger external USB HD as a Time Machine. I do SD at work and HD at home and doing everything on the internal HDs doesn't seem to be causing any issues...

all video and audio should be on an external firewire 400 or 800 drive, everything. media should never be on your internal drive.

 

[KeithPratt]

all video and audio should be on an external firewire 400 or 800 drive, everything. media should never be on your internal drive.

As hard disks get bigger and faster, with larger caches, there's no reason why this needs to remain the case. It's probably always going to be better to have separate disks for OS/app and media — but why stop there? Why not a separate for renders, for project files, for non-video media... And so on.

There are certain adages that are passed down and around that gradually cease to be accurate, yet the perpetuation continues.

I'm not saying that those who've asked will get satisfactory performance from the iMac internal, but I have done little bits of editing with media on the system drive without performance issues.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I'm not saying that those who've asked will get satisfactory performance from the iMac internal, but I have done little bits of editing with media on the system drive without performance issues.

Well, it's kinda like if someone asks what shoes to wear for a marathon do you tell them running shoes or flip flops? Either one can be used to complete the task but one is better suited than the other.

While drives and CPUs have gotten faster editing apps and codecs have gotten more intensive to handle as well. To a certain degree will having everything on a single, internal drive work? Yes. Will it be as fast and reliable as having the OS and media split onto different drives? No. Is it a difference that makes a difference? It depends on the situation, but I'd rather start off w/the best option and work backwards from there if need be.


Lethal

 

[martinX]

My decision to put everything on the internal HD was based solely on the ease of backup, and the observation that it didn't seem to be causing any performance issues. My stuff isn't too demanding of a hard drive. I work in DV (25 mbps) or AIC (~100 mbps).

I had my work iMac stolen halfway through a project and the lack of backup caused me lots of grief. But such grief could have occurred if a single hard drive died. I have since learned the best ways to set up a FCP project to avoid this happening again and while I could still keep the captured footage on a separate drive and re-capture from the original tapes with ease with a backup FCP project file if I had to, my paranoia makes me keep everything on a hard drive with a single monolithic backup.

Those who work in higher bitrate codecs have every reason to separate media from OS and are probably more organised than me.

 

[akdj]

"Definitely go with the 27" iMac. Also, about the Mac Pro well, currently the i5 iMac has far better graphics than the Mac Pro. If you don't believe me, go lookup a bench mark haha."

Anyway, your best bet would definitely be the iMac for what you are planning on doing, especially since the iMac has far better graphics, and of course, the harddrive is 3.5", as opposed to the slower 2.5" harddrive found in the Mac Mini."

So...where to start...I suppose the comparison between a 27" iMac and a Mini speaks for itself...

But, as far as the current Mac Pro being bested by graphic card performance in an iMac? Irrelevant, IMO (We aren't, after all, playing Crysis...we're editing/encoding/compressing video). In a Mac Pro....You'll always be able to upgrade not only your GPU, but your hard drives (4x), Disc drives, RAM, monitor, or any type of video capture system (HD-DVI, Matrox, etc) through your expansion slots. Certainly not the case with an iMac.

Not to take ANYTHING away from the new i5 and i7 rigs, they're phenomenal, but not a replacement for a professional video editing computer and it's expandibility. IMHO

And yes, Scratch drives are still very much a mandatory part of video editing (if you want to get it done today)...with an iMac or laptop, you can easily use an external FW800 drive for scratch, it's definitely quick enough. With a Mac Pro though, you can use one of your 4 internal hard drives as an external...one for apps, one for media, one for...you get the point I run a Video editing business and I was editing DVCPro HD footage and AVC on a G4 Power Mac before my current rig ('08 Eight Core 3ghz/14gb RAM)....and while it took a lot longer to get anything done, it CAN be done!

In any case, with AVC and other H.264 codecs, many times it's much easier to transcode to a ProRes format (working within FCP) before editing. This is less processor intensive and you'll be able to play back without rendering even with processor heavy effects and transitions.

We shoot with HVX200a and EX-1r cameras as well as Canon 5d2 and 7d cameras. DVC-Pro HD, XD Cam, etc are much easier to play with immediately than the H.264 stuff, even on a monster machine. I always transcode with compressor (It's a fast process) and then edit. Saves a lot of headaches....and, in turn, does NOT mandate you have the fastest machine on the planet. You can do this with Cineform and other programs on the Windows side as well.

To believe you have to have the latest and greatest processors to edit video is simply wrong. If you did, we wouldn't have been editing video digitally until now H.264 and AVC have been out for several years now...and we've all been doing just fine (albeit...things do get faster)

J