President Obama: 'You Cannot Take an Absolutist View' on Encryption Issue

[satcomer]

You know everybody is taking their eye off the ball! What do we really know what's going on?

1. It wan't the shooter's phone, it was his WORK phone given to him by the County Goverment tech inept department.

2. The FBI had a search warrent with an Oder for Apple to make a version of iOS that will unlock all the shooter's work iPhone and then the "secure" FBI will share this with all police stations! Right local police have the best security, not!

 

[chairguru22]

Do manufacturers of safes have a way to unlock the safes they manufacture? This is an honest question if anyone happens to have the answer. It seems like a good analog for what's going on here.

I guess it depends on what kind of safe. Ones you find in hotels all have master keys or methods to unlock it. Other common safes are easily opened with a very strong magnet. It's pretty shocking actually how easy it is to open one without actually having to crack a code or have a key. These are probably your "run of the mill" safe though.

I'm sure there are really expensive and complex ones that are much harder to get into. Nevertheless, you could always blow one up and open it that way.

 

[0098386]

No, no we don't. We recognize it as ******** security theater.

Currently the biggest reason why my partner and I don't go to events in the US any more. Last time I went (2013) I had more backscatter xrays than I've ever had medical xrays. I'm not ruining my body for that place. (and hey I'm a white European, blue eyed blond. I can only imagine how they treat people with darker complexions coming in)

 

[mrxak]

Yeah, Obama hates absolutist views on anything. That's why he bends and breaks our Constitution any time he finds it inconvenient to his aims. He has no respect for supposedly unbreakable laws. But hey, that's politics for you, a world of grays. I wish I could say whoever follows him, from either party, won't be even worse.

Meanwhile, in the world of math, encryption must be absolute or it's utterly worthless.

These mobile phones, and computers of every sort, have become external memory devices for us. They store information we used to only store in our heads. They must be as inviolable as our minds if humanity is to survive the coming century.

 

[Kabeyun]

**** Obama.

Treasonous scumbag.

Obama is technologically inept. I'd expect nothing less from a community organizer who still uses a Blackberry and merrily conducts extrajudicial assassinations of American citizens and routinely flies Pentagon drones all over the United States.

Obama is a totalitarian at heart. Worst president...ever.

So who's your example of a lawful, honorable, compassionate political leader? Careful about picking someone who lied his way into a war which killed thousands and thousands of Americans or someone who told us that if our schools feed our kids ketchup it counts as getting their veggies or someone who sold weapons to a terrorist state to fund coup d'etat guerilla warfare in a sovereign nation.

 

[CEmajr]

Right wing, left wing, you have fallen for the trap and bought into the lie that there is a two party system. Both leading political parties are of the same "wing" for the core issues of:

• Dumping on the Constitution.
• Right to privacy.
• Spending money they don't have.
• Expanding the reach of government.
• Foreign policy.
• Wars (war on terror, war on drugs, any war they can think of).
• Plenty more.

How is a guy who continues the policies of his predecessor (and in some cases expands them) any less of an embarrassment? Go compare the track record of the the man who is President now to that of his predecessor. The only difference between Obama and Bush II is in public perception; being a better orator goes a long way to assuage concerns, and the media certainly gives a pass to the current guy more often than not.




If you still feel a need to continue apologizing for the guy, you are still indoctrinated. It's not just "this specific issue" where he's demonstrated that he's like the majority of the other politicians. He's been just like every other one of them for 8 years now. Stop buying into the propaganda.

There indeed is a two party system in regards to those things and which spectrum of politicians want to be the ones controlling it. It's OT so I'm not trying to get into a line by line debate as to what I think he's done good/bad just provided a quick explanation for the other non US poster confused to why the "worst president ever" theme is parroted so much by the opposite side of American politics. It just doesn't make logically considering the catastrophic events that occurred during the previous administration. None have happened in the past 7 years so something must be different.

It's not apologizing for him to state that he doesn't understand how technology works. He's just like Clinton, like Trump, like Cruz, etc. in that regard. It's a statement of fact. They're out of touch on this issue with Apple.

You sound like one of those who believe the best solution to fix politics is to just not participate. That's the biggest falling for of propaganda of all.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Do manufacturers of safes have a way to unlock the safes they manufacture? This is an honest question if anyone happens to have the answer. It seems like a good analog for what's going on here.

There is a difference - even if a safe has tamper proof hardware it can still be drilled into to open. An unlock code would be helpful, but not necessary. OTOH iOS will go into self-destruct mode after 10 incorrect passwords. No way to brute force unlock it with the off the shelf OS installed.

 

[thermodynamic]

Do manufacturers of safes have a way to unlock the safes they manufacture? This is an honest question if anyone happens to have the answer. It seems like a good analog for what's going on here.

Do cities have master keys to get into every lock made?

Sometimes...

 

[dilbert99]

Ultimately though, I don't care about my own security because I have nothing of any value. I'm obviously going to side on the position against Apple as a result, if someone leaks online that I wanked to this porn at this time... so be it, I don't care.

Most people have things of value, perhaps the password to a bank account etc...

 

[0007776]

Obama is an idiot. Unfortunately there are no options out there to vote for that would be any different on this issue.

 

[haravikk]

Obama is still falling into the same trap as others; we absolutely can and should take an absolutist view on backdoors to cryptography, as mandating backdoors to secure communications render them effectively useless for law abiding citizens, while doing nothing to stop criminals (who can just use something else, legal or no).

As ever, the key to tackling crime is to tackle the actual crimes themselves; terrorists can't do damage if they can't get explosives or weapons, so work on preventing access to those, which requires no access to their phones or communications. Pedophiles have often been caught by honey-trapping, which likewise requires no access to their phones.

Of course, restricting access to weapons is a significant challenge in the US as anything that could prevent guns going to terrorists could also stop them getting into the hands of nut jobs who just want to shoot up a school which apparently is a 2nd amendment right if the success of gun control efforts is anything to go by.

 

[soupcan]

I'd also like to point out that Mr Obama (and whoever else in the 'Murican government) does not have the rights to make the lives of over 850 million iOS8+ users all over the world less private and less secure. Nobody has those rights. Nobody.

 

[Keirasplace]

President Obama, Yes we can!
[doublepost=1457760500][/doublepost]

I'm no Obama fan though I did vote for him over Hillary in 2008.

That said, power got to this guy's head. He campaigned complaining about Bush's misuse of executive power and now makes Bush look like a piker.

He;s use it a lot less than Bush so not sure what you're talking about.

Your also using false equivalency; on this subject and a few others, everyone in all parties are all the same. But, that doesn't make everyone the same in both parties. Just looking at what they both advocate in policy and congress shows you that's not true. Doesn't mean he's not really disappointing on all matters of internal security; he truly is.

I think this has less about power to his head, and more general lack of competency in the field of technology (like everyone in Washington) and law enforcement in general (he delegates his authority too much in this area).

He seems complacent with regards to the fields related to policing were he always seems to be at his wit's end; he's obviously relying too much on law enforcement bureaucrats to steer him on (including the current attorney general whose policy he seems to reflect perfectly in this case; so much so that it seems that she's the lead on this).

 

[jimbobb24]

Obama is an amazing politician but over the years I have concluded he would not make it in STEM and that is an understatement. Science is not his thing.

The warrant to search a home is not a good analogy. We are talking about a warrant to search every home in America and then a large chance of someone else finding the warrant and they can suddenly search every home in America. His basic philosophy of trade offs is right (my how we have grown in office from his super absolutist rhetoric in the other direction in 2008) but the situation is not analogous.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

you can have the world's safest safe in your house. as soon as a judge says..open it, you open it.
same thing.

COINTELPRO baby...

You didn't need to be doing anything wrong. Those cats would easily make you look guilty as heck...

 

[hindmost]

If Obama had family members who were stupid enough to take 'selfies' while drunk at a party and videoed each other doing something with 'Mr. T' would he want that easily available to the world of 'hackers'?????

I think we all know the answer.
[doublepost=1457791256][/doublepost]

I love how he mentions the airport security thing, because there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that airport security has protected us from anything.

Smarmy comment from Obama when he knows neither he nor anyone in his family or entourage has gone through airport 'security' for the past eight years.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Obama said that while he wants to make sure the government cannot "willy-nilly" get into everyone's iPhones without oversight and probable cause, there are "constraints we impose" to make sure we live in a safe and civilized society.

Is this similar to how IRS appointees cannot use the power of that department to "willy-nilly" go on a political witch hunt without impunity? Or did we forget about that already. Oh wait, I forgot it never happened.

 

[Commy1]

He's pretty much playing devils advocate and he's right, but I think it boils down to the "who will guard the guards" argument. The US government doesn't have the best track record for trustworthiness so the animosity and scepticism is understandable.

 

[8281]

**** Obama.

Treasonous scumbag.

Obama is technologically inept. I'd expect nothing less from a community organizer who still uses a Blackberry and merrily conducts extrajudicial assassinations of American citizens and routinely flies Pentagon drones all over the United States.

Obama is a totalitarian at heart. Worst president...ever.

Wow...i'm not even sure how to unpack your statement except to say that when you join a terrorist organization you really are treasonous and you forfeit your rights.
[doublepost=1457792997][/doublepost]

The man makes some good points.

No he's a socialist traitor and we're close to 1984! /s

 

[MacAddict1978]

Do manufacturers of safes have a way to unlock the safes they manufacture? This is an honest question if anyone happens to have the answer. It seems like a good analog for what's going on here.

They do. Even a combination lock can be unlocked with the serial number on the back. On a recent episode of Zombie house hunters, they purchased a house to flip with a safe built in that was locked. Someone called the company, and they gave them the combination after they showed proof they purchased the home and now were thus, "owners of the safe."

This is a tough debate. Say what you want about Obama, he raises valid points. Do we want to give pedophile's a secure way to engage in kiddie porn? Or terrorists a happy way of secretly communicating their vile intentions?

Somewhere there has to be balance to all things. Perhaps linking a device by not serial number, but some randomly generated number that has to be called up by physically having the device and then matched based upon registration data and a combination of millions of not billions of potential keys or something would be a means. Creating a multiple part system of matching would make hacking a device still nearly impossible, it wouldn't let a company be able to just unlock a device without a ton of labor, but in some specific instances, would allow the data to be retrieved.

What is a device had information on it that would uncover a plot to launch a missile at us? All these people clamoring for privacy would revolt against a company that let half the country get blown to smithereens. We takes stances on issues based upon what is convenient for us at the time and miss the big picture.

Right now, we all want our privacy secure and protected. We don't want big brother in our business or to have our freedoms violated by our government. We also don't want 911 part 2.... and we have evaded that exact sequel for a reason.... and that wasn't creating a safe space for evil people to secure their wares.

When something awful happens, this conversation will turn to blame. "Why didn't they protect us? I blame Obama! (because why not, we blame the man for everything when you should be blaming the congress and senate since 2 out of 50 people actually understand how government works).

While I am in favor of having some method, beit a really hard method that doesn't make it at all easy to get into encrypted data.... what creates a precedent for a reasonable use of such a technology and how badly would it be abused? After 911, the government abused the **** out of their power with wire tapping and monitoring. That's the scary part. I doubt they would stop with dire situations. It's a no-win game right now with no good answer.

 

[SuperMatt]

**** Obama.

Treasonous scumbag.

Obama is technologically inept. I'd expect nothing less from a community organizer who still uses a Blackberry and merrily conducts extrajudicial assassinations of American citizens and routinely flies Pentagon drones all over the United States.

Obama is a totalitarian at heart. Worst president...ever.

You might have the shortest memory in history. Just go back 1 president for a worse one. Invading Iraq in 2003 was the worst strategic decision since the Germans invaded Russia in WWII. Cutting taxes while spending over a trillion dollars on a war was genius too. Oh yeah, and completely destroying the economy was an added bonus.

EDIT: I forgot - he is the one who started all the spying on Americans in the first place. And the one who thinks torturing people is A-OK.

That being said, I disagree with Obama on this. He is a good president, but woefully uninformed when it comes to computer security.

 

[brianvictor7]

There is no middle or balance. It's either secure or it's not. The only way to 'solve' that supposed dilemma would be to go the insecure route, which means trusting someone with the 'spare key' not to accidentally or purposely break that trust.

And given history and the track record of the current parties crying for such a compromise to made, anyone who has studied history, knows anything about human nature, or has been paying just a slight bit of attention to the current government, would know that trust would be greatly misplaced.

I agree that the power would be abused. I am thinking out loud: is there any way to mitigate it? Perhaps there is a way to access the information in a way that must be disclosed to the owner? Would that be of help?

 

[uknowimright]

**** Obama.

Treasonous scumbag.

Obama is technologically inept. I'd expect nothing less from a community organizer who still uses a Blackberry and merrily conducts extrajudicial assassinations of American citizens and routinely flies Pentagon drones all over the United States.

Obama is a totalitarian at heart. Worst president...ever.

I don't agree with Obama on this issue but good lord the fact that this is the most popular comment is so sad, no wonder Trump might just win

 

[Pilgrim1099]

I'm sorry that the smartphone as it is today and the security issue wasn't around in 2008. Obama would not have gotten elected.

Oh, really? It wouldn't have mattered since the Republicans would screw things up as well. Romney wouldn't have done a better job than Obama. This is NOT about Obama alone. This is about the FBI and Apple. You should be far more concerned who the next president will be because if Mr. Atlantic City gets elected, Tim Cook is f----d. And he's still f-----d regardless.

 

[Sasparilla]

The analogies the administration is using are wrong, of course to their benefit of what they've been driving towards since coming to power (which is to have the ability of total surveillance of the population). I think the closest analogy to a smartphone is our thoughts in our minds - who our friends are, what we say and what they've said, what we're doing - what we think. If the govt had the ability to scan our brains against our will and retrieve our thoughts like a smarthone - you can bet they'd be following this same script (for our security).

Its important to note we know, thanks to Snowden, the U.S. govt already already records all our online communications via the NSA (by law their not supposed to gather U.S. citizen communications but we now know they do it anyways) and has now given the okay (just the other day in fact) for the NSA to share that data with law enforcement agencies for their own - non terrorist uses. Boy would Hoover, who blackmailed politicians with his investigative powers as head of the FBI, love this. Will this get abused? (looking back at McCarthy, Nixon, Hoover....I think one can say, yes almost certainly)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...licing-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-terrorism/

So the Feds already have all the communications going in and out of the phones. Now they want a guaranteed key to access your thoughts in these things that didn't exist (for the most part) 10 years ago.

Saw this the other day:

CANDIDATE, AUGUST 2007: This [Bush] Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom.

PRESIDENT, JUNE 2013: I think the American people understand -- that there are some tradeoffs involved. But I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100 percent security and also then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society.​

Another fellow mentioned the forces (Tyranny when you come down to it) wanting total access to these honeypots we walk around with will not go away. Apple is fighting a battle it can't win long term (although I want them to fight it) if they continue operating as they are now - they need to make a paradigm shift in how they do things - Apple needs to Open Source (not free, but open the source to the public) of their OS's, compiler, apps and firmware / BIOS images - so that the public can view them, audit them and make sure the govts of the world don't slip any back doors in. Otherwise, longer term, in the public or by secret courts with secret orders (FISA court in the U.S. for example) they will eventually be forced to betray their customers trust...the only way to get around that is to make everything open and in the sunshine. Apple needs to move quickly on this before they can be forced to do otherwise. As an asside, their sales would go through the roof if they do so.