Pretty huge discrepancy between distance on watch and phone...

[exxxviii]

Outdoor Run/Walk/Cycling Workouts DO use iPhone GPS -- to calibrate distance.

I was wondering when you guys were going to remember this.

GPS. Along with its accelerometer, Apple Watch uses GPS on your iPhone to more accurately measure distance and speed during workouts you do outside — like walking, running, and cycling.

Apple's statement is technically and legally correct. But it is also misleading use of language for marketing spin.

Until the AW appeared on the market, whenever anyone said a sports device "uses GPS," consumers would have interpreted that statement to mean that the device directly calculates distance and speed from GPS. Because, this is how all GPS enabled athletic devices functioned. By contrast, the AW indirectly calculates distance from GPS. Apple uses GPS to calculate a stride length which it then feeds into the watch to multiply by steps to indirectly arrive at distance and speed. For cycling, it does "use GPS," but Apple has not revealed how; the use of GPS does not appear to be continuous like every other GPS-enabled cycling product consumers are used to.

 

[Night Spring]

Remeber what?
The iPhone's GPS does nothing except "help" calibrate the watch. The GPS on my iPhone is quite accurate and it would have been nice if it would share that with the watch for mapping purposes. Not that big of a thing for Apple to get the two devices to play nice with each other.

Why do people always think that anything software is "not that big a thing"? It's a pretty big job to write GPS mapping software, that presents the GPS data in a visually nice interface. Even if the raw data is already there, you just can't give the users the raw numbers and tell them to map the coordinates themselves.

 

[exxxviii]

Why do people always think that anything software is "not that big a thing"? It's a pretty big job to write GPS mapping software, that presents the GPS data in a visually nice interface.

Probably because this particular capability has been around for so long that people consider it basic and table stakes for a fitness device. I was using Runkeeper for run mapping at least six years ago. And back then there were at least half a dozen other iPhone apps that did the same thing.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Why do people always think that anything software is "not that big a thing"? It's a pretty big job to write GPS mapping software, that presents the GPS data in a visually nice interface. Even if the raw data is already there, you just can't give the users the raw numbers and tell them to map the coordinates themselves.

When it come to Apple and the people on its staff, IT IS NOT A BIG THING.

 

[tekchic]

Yep - it's frustrating. As an avid runner, I have to still run a third-party app if I want anything near Garmin accuracy. So I end up running the Apple Workout on my watch (say, "Outdoor Run"), and then having to launch iSmoothRun or RunKeeper on my phone at the same time.

Otherwise, I don't get splits, I don't get a map, and I do get accuracy as poor as a quarter mile short on a three mile run. It's rather ridiculous that if I'm actively logging an outdoor run workout, that it doesn't use the GPS with the same sampling as a third-party app does. The accuracy is abysmal over a long run, which is why I'll continue having to use multiple apps until Apple figures it out. :/

It'd be nice if they could just allow Runkeeper etc to use heart rate data and "fill the exercise rings". Let the third-party devs that have been doing it for years access the data. They'll get it right.

 

[kmj2318]

So, I'm not a big workout buff, but I do like to know how far I've walked at the end of each day. Yesterday, I looked on my watch (achievements), and it said I had walked something like 3.14 miles. My phone (Health app) said I had walked over 4. Why would there be a mile difference between the devices? Is there a better app to get more accurate distance traveled with the watch? Should I be using the workout app with an open goal? Not a big deal for me personally, but the difference did seem kind of glaring.

Do you ride a bike? My numbers are completely off when I have my phone in my pocket riding a bike because the phone thinks I'm getting steps but the watch doesn't.

 

[BarracksSi]

What I really think about Apple's workout app versus all the others:

Apple's has the simplest interface I've ever seen. It gives up lots of configurability for a simple layout and exercise choices. It won't give splits, it doesn't have a "virtual partner" to help keep you on pace, it doesn't have an interval timer, it doesn't give cycling or running cadence, it doesn't have alarms for going above or below a HR threshold, it can't load a map and guide you along a route… it doesn't do a LOT of things.

But that's fine. It's easy to use, and for couch potatoes who are just starting out, it's great. My wife uses her Nike+ Run app because it's so simple. When she finally lets me get her own Watch, she'll do well with the included Workout app.

My Garmin, on the other hand, does all the things I mentioned. It's a very capable GPS/HR watch that can do anything this side of triathlon training. But it's a pain in the ass to use. Every little option is buried in some menu somewhere. I've been using gadgets for years and I still loathe changing workouts and common settings; switching between running and cycling is maybe four submenus deep, fer cryin' out loud.

Taking this further --

You can choose apps—and other devices—focused on running, cycling, yoga, weightlifting, crossfit, Tabata, swimming, Pilates, 7-minute workouts… pretty much any fitness regimen under the sun.

How would you make one single app to cover all these disciplines? How would you make it simple to configure? More importantly, how would you make it not be intimidating for a fitness newbie?

My advice is to stop bellyaching about Apple's Workout app. There are dozens of other options which will fit your preferred workout routine.

[steps off soapbox and ponders starting a new thread]

 

[hokiemas]

My watch and phone are very close but phone is usually higher from walking around without watch. Do you have calibration turned on in location settings?

How would I do this? I'm not seeing that option.

 

[burgman]

How would I do this? I'm not seeing that option.

It's buried
Settings-Privacy-Location Services-System Services at the bottom of list-Motion Calibration & Distance slider to on.

 

[hokiemas]

It's buried
Settings-Privacy-Location Services-System Services at the bottom of list-Motion Calibration & Distance slider to on.

Thanks. It was on already. Difference today was less an a quarter mile, so at least today, it was better:

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

This month I've logged 13 runs, averaging 5 miles a run.

I've used my apple watch's work out app and 2 running apps (iSmoothRun and Polar Beat) on my iphone simultaneously for each run. They are all relying on the same GPS source (the iphone). Today the iphone apps assessed my distance as 5.33 miles. Apple Watch's Outdoor Run app thinks it was only 4.97miles.

That's a pretty poor result for the Apple Watch and it's app. Accurate pace and distance data are the main point of a running watch.

 

[WoodrowCall]

Does anyone think that any of these issues between watch and iPhone discrepancies will be addressed in WatchOS2? I am an avid runner/cyclist and always take my phone with me, as I find that it is extremely accurate (more so than running watches I've tried). I don't have an Apple watch yet, and this discrepancy is the main thing keeping me from getting it. I want to use my watch while I'm running, but inaccurate tracking definitely seems like a problem.

 

[cowfish]

What I really think about Apple's workout app versus all the others:

Apple's has the simplest interface I've ever seen. It gives up lots of configurability for a simple layout and exercise choices. It won't give splits, it doesn't have a "virtual partner" to help keep you on pace, it doesn't have an interval timer, it doesn't give cycling or running cadence, it doesn't have alarms for going above or below a HR threshold, it can't load a map and guide you along a route… it doesn't do a LOT of things.

But that's fine. It's easy to use, and for couch potatoes who are just starting out, it's great. My wife uses her Nike+ Run app because it's so simple. When she finally lets me get her own Watch, she'll do well with the included Workout app.

My Garmin, on the other hand, does all the things I mentioned. It's a very capable GPS/HR watch that can do anything this side of triathlon training. But it's a pain in the ass to use. Every little option is buried in some menu somewhere. I've been using gadgets for years and I still loathe changing workouts and common settings; switching between running and cycling is maybe four submenus deep, fer cryin' out loud.

Taking this further --

You can choose apps—and other devices—focused on running, cycling, yoga, weightlifting, crossfit, Tabata, swimming, Pilates, 7-minute workouts… pretty much any fitness regimen under the sun.

How would you make one single app to cover all these disciplines? How would you make it simple to configure? More importantly, how would you make it not be intimidating for a fitness newbie?

My advice is to stop bellyaching about Apple's Workout app. There are dozens of other options which will fit your preferred workout routine.

[steps off soapbox and ponders starting a new thread]

It does give splits.

Maybe buried deeper than you'd like, but they're there..

 

[exxxviii]

It does give splits.

Maybe buried deeper than you'd like, but they're there..

Are you on an OS2 beta? I am pretty sure that OS1 does not show splits.

Does anyone think that any of these issues between watch and iPhone discrepancies will be addressed in WatchOS2? I am an avid runner/cyclist and always take my phone with me, as I find that it is extremely accurate (more so than running watches I've tried). I don't have an Apple watch yet, and this discrepancy is the main thing keeping me from getting it. I want to use my watch while I'm running, but inaccurate tracking definitely seems like a problem.

The discrepancies here are specific to steps counted by the watch and reported in Activity verses steps counted by the phone and reported in Health. So, they may not pertain to use of a watch for cycling.

There are a few other threads out there about using the native Workout app for cycling, and my dad uses it that way as well. My gut is that Apple's native watch apps are several years a way from reaching a point where they could be a fully functional exercise & fitness tool. This is solely based on my observation of Apple's feature miss history in other devices and apps. However, it is likely that apps like Strava, Nike+, MapMyFitness, Runkeeper, etc. will develop companion watch & phone apps that you could use for serious running & bicycling.

 

[cowfish]

Nope, 1.0.1, but I am on iOS 9 public beta. Maybe that's the difference? For me, at least, it shows up under workouts, you press on the blue circle with the arrow next to it, and it goes to the breakdown of the workout. That may or may not be new in iOS 9, not sure..

 

[exxxviii]

Nope, 1.0.1, but I am on iOS 9 public beta. Maybe that's the difference?

That's it. I remember from another thread that it is an iOS 9 beta feature.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Does anyone think that any of these issues between watch and iPhone discrepancies will be addressed in WatchOS2? I am an avid runner/cyclist and always take my phone with me, as I find that it is extremely accurate (more so than running watches I've tried). I don't have an Apple watch yet, and this discrepancy is the main thing keeping me from getting it. I want to use my watch while I'm running, but inaccurate tracking definitely seems like a problem.

The outdoor cycling app gets the distance right each time.

The Nike and Strava running apps also get it right. No doubt because they are running on the phone and using the phone's GPS. These apps only use the apple watch as a screen and a method of operation. It's only Apple's workout app that is off, and from what I've read, that's because it's trying to do it without GPS.

Apple think the discrepancies re running will iron out in time. The Apple watch gives distance based on motion sensors. It's measuring oscillation, duration and giving a notional length to your steps. There's a setting somewhere that's set by default to be 'on', that is supposed to make corrections over time. For me, on shorter runs, it's accuracy is okay. It's only when running longer distances that the discrepancy really shows.

If I consider my last 4 runs things seem to be slowly improving.

Last Thursday, I ran 5.33 miles. The watch thought it was 4.97 miles - 93.24% accurate

On Saturday I ran 5k (ParkRun). The watch thought it was 3.09miles - 97% accurate - so over shorter distances it seems to do better?

On Monday I ran 11.16 miles. The watch thought it was 10.64 miles - 95% accurate

Today I ran 5.62 miles. The watch thought it was 5.26 miles - 93.59% accurate.

Only last Thursdays and today's run were of similar length, but there does seem to be a small improvement.

 

[firewood]

I'm surprised it doesn't use the phones GPS. What does it do? Count the number of arm swings?

That's exactly what it's doing (as well as measuring the type and rate of arm swing).

The Watch calibrates types of arm swings against the iPhone GPS when you use the Workout app for more than 20 minutes, and then uses different calibrations for different types of arms swings. But it's just counting arm swings and multiplying by a bunch of custom calibration factors.

If you walk or even run while pushing a shopping cart with both hands over a smooth floor so you arm doesn't swing, even for long periods of time (an hour inside a giant warehouse store, etc.), you will find that the Watch will ignore almost all your steps.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Since OS2, my distance and pace issues have largely resolved. There is still a discrepancy, but it's negligible.

Sunday's run was 8.4miles on the phone and 8.3miles on the watch. 99% accurate will do for me.

 

[jlczl]

That's exactly what it's doing (as well as measuring the type and rate of arm swing).

The Watch calibrates types of arm swings against the iPhone GPS when you use the Workout app for more than 20 minutes, and then uses different calibrations for different types of arms swings. But it's just counting arm swings and multiplying by a bunch of custom calibration factors.

If you walk or even run while pushing a shopping cart with both hands over a smooth floor so you arm doesn't swing, even for long periods of time (an hour inside a giant warehouse store, etc.), you will find that the Watch will ignore almost all your steps.

That's horrible. There's times my arm doesn't swing at all because it lays on my messenger bag as I walk. SMH

 

[BarracksSi]

That's horrible. There's times my arm doesn't swing at all because it lays on my messenger bag as I walk. SMH

I got a decent distance reading walking from the flea market with a bag over my left (watch) shoulder and my thumb hooked into the bag handle (yeah, like a purse).

 

[exxxviii]

That's horrible. There's times my arm doesn't swing at all because it lays on my messenger bag as I walk. SMH

It is not just arm swings. It is wrist motion in 6 dimensions (3 linear axes and 3 rotational axes) mapped to motions that indicate walking. If you have an arm resting on a messenger bag, it is moving vertically and accelerating and decelerating forward and back-- the same as a hip mounted activity counter would see. So, it would see and count those steps.

 

[firewood]

There's times my arm doesn't swing at all because it lays on my messenger bag as I walk. SMH

If you check with a sensitive level or motion detector, you might find that your messenger bag actually swings a bit almost every step.