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It is a worry if a malicious user stops your access to the phone. Lot of people are there who use the phone for their day to day office stuff. Not everyone buys a phone to send silly tweets.

That wouldn't be possible even with the full FaceID data. FaceID happens locally, not remotely. A malicious user would need to hack your phone at the hardware level to use this.
 
This negates all the security Apple built in to FaceID. Allowing this data out is plane ridiculous. The next thing that will happen is the government demanding a real time feed. 1984 only 27 years late.

Your forgetting that apple said the the iPhone user needs to give permission. If it bothers you...just dont use it, its that simple. It's nice that Apple once again is giving users a choice.
 
Yeah but with touchID developers didnt get any info, or numbers for that matter, about your fingerprint. With FaceID, they will be getting actual pictures of your face, along with all the characteristics of it. This is quite different.

FaceID relies on a mathematical representation of your face, not pictures and characteristics. It's very much like TouchID and I'm wondering why you've gathered otherwise. You can also be sure the numbers involved are encrypted to the device, stored in a secure enclave, and only work with that device.
 
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Your forgetting that apple said the the iPhone user needs to give permission. If it bothers you...just dont use it, its that simple. It's nice that Apple once again is giving users a choice.
So typing in passwords and keycodes instead of just placing a finger/looking into a camera. Sounds convenient.
 
So typing in passwords and keycodes instead of just placing a finger/looking into a camera. Sounds convenient.

Third parties will be asking for access to FaceID hardware (depth maps for things like animoji), not FaceID authentication. You can still use it to authenticate in this scenario, you would simply not allow third party access for other reasons.
 
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Yeah but with touchID developers didnt get any info, or numbers for that matter, about your fingerprint. With FaceID, they will be getting actual pictures of your face, along with all the characteristics of it. This is quite different. And lets be real here - people, as i, use TouchID for logging into different apps for its convenience - because it is quick and easy. I assume they will be doing the same with FaceID so everytime you'll log into, lets say your bank account, the bank could easily get a picture of your face.

“according to terms seen in a contract by Reuters”

What contract is this? I’d like to see the source so I can read it for myself. We’ve been burned too many times with developers or 3rd parties claiming something that turns out not to be true. And just like with Touch ID the media seems to have a vested interest in making people wary about the technology. Getting people all freaked out over something is good for clicks.
 
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Most face recognition systems that are in use already, use general 2D photos, and use algorithms based on facial features, and their spacing. If you are posting selfies anywhere online, you are already adding to a database. How do you think your iPhone, Android phone, and other programs can create galleries And identify faces already?

Why aren’t these security advisors going after anyone producing a front facing camera?

True this provides more resolution, but I don’t see it as any new risk.
 
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So really, these guys are worried that an app will somehow figure out how often they're smiling, blinking, or raising their eyebrows? That's ridiculous.

You are ok with google knowing what part of an ad you are looking at? Whether and ad makes you smile or recoil in disgust? Adverstisers could take targeted advertising to another level.

But lets not stop there. What about something like Tinder? You think Tinder should be able to read the facial expression of users?? Should it know where a user eye is drawn to in the photos it looks at? Should the Tinder corporation know such stuff?
 
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I haven’t read the white paper, but perhaps Apple can slightly alter the data that devs get, so it certainly can’t unlock the phone, but still be useful enough for what they want to do?
 
You are ok with google knowing what part of an ad you are looking at? Whether and ad makes you smile or recoil in disgust? Adverstisers could take targeted advertising to another level.

But lets not stop there. What about something like Tinder? You think Tinder should be able to read the facial expression of users?? Should it know where a user eye is drawn to in the photos it looks at? Should the Tinder corporation know such stuff?

That assumes the following isn’t part of the picture.

Apple will let developers take certain pieces of this facial data off the user's iPhone "as long as they seek customer permission

Such a toggle will likely show up similar to existing permissions you grant.

A8195A6D-3445-456D-883C-9DD159EBB10A.jpeg

Now if you are concerned, or, the application requires Face detection in order to function, simply don’t use it.
 
according to documents about Face ID sent to security researchers, the "relative ease" with which developers can gain access to parts of a user's facial data and add it to their own servers has led to the new concerns raised by the ACLU and CDT today.
Lets be clear, there is no:
"relative ease" with which developers can gain access to parts of a user's facial data
It's being allowed by Apple. That's how Apple wants it to work. If it's a problem Apple wouldn't allow it. You don't like it and think it's a security problem you are add odds with Apple. You don't like it then you don't like how Apple intends it to work.
 
That wouldn't be possible even with the full FaceID data. FaceID happens locally, not remotely. A malicious user would need to hack your phone at the hardware level to use this.

As the article says, certain parts of it can be stored by developers on their own servers. There have been cases all the time as you may have read in the past that Apple software isn't bullet proof. At this point it's still hypothetical, but in the event someone finds a security hole and gathers all your facial data, they can use it to authenticate transactions.
 
Too many people worry too much. Enjoy life and stop worrying.

Right. Let's all blindly trust like we had to with Equifax. What harm could arise? A round of Soma for everyone!

I think we should know when and how our data is being collected. I might allow some apps to use it for a very narrow purpose, i.e., passwords, but I want to know if they are using it for some other purpose too.
 
Presumably Face ID is more like Touch ID, which is very different from the Camera app. I can disable access to the camera on an app-by-app basis, but I can't disable Touch ID on an app-by-app basis.

I'm pretty sure TouchID is something you can optionally set up in a lot of apps. I have never had an app that hasn't asked if would like to use touch id to login faster or to do anything else. Touch Id in app is optional, not the default.
 
As the article says, certain parts of it can be stored by developers on their own servers. There have been cases all the time as you may have read in the past that Apple software isn't bullet proof. At this point it's still hypothetical, but in the event someone finds a security hole and gathers all your facial data, they can use it to authenticate transactions.
Without knowing it I think you've made the most intelligent point about security. People have already pin-pointed a hypothetical flaw in a device which isn't even released until tomorrow! All companies just play catch-up.
 
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Spot on, Rogifan.

i am ready to see dark conspiracy theories wind by recursive decent all over this thread.
/s

Trust me, I don’t worry about much. In fact I’m pretty care free in day to day life.

However my internet,online privacy concerns me more and more.

So much so that I only keep the apps I absolutely must have on my devices.

Our online privacy is non existent at the moment that’s how I feel.
 
It is a worry if a malicious user stops your access to the phone. Lot of people are there who use the phone for their day to day office stuff. Not everyone buys a phone to send silly tweets.

u got it wrong mate. it cleary says the data cant be used to access/unlock ur phone in anyway
 
Wait a second. Didn't Al Franken already grandstand about this then get all starstruck when Apple responded? According to All Frankens expert opinion we have nothing to worry about.
 
You should learn more about big data before spewing ignorance on the web, thank you very much

before you use the word big data, gist here is IF the data is anonymised then it is not a privacy concern period. if someone is targeting an individual to see how many times he smiles makes a f face then it is not big data (privacy is individual concern then ;)).
 
So really, these guys are worried that an app will somehow figure out how often they're smiling, blinking, or raising their eyebrows? That's ridiculous.

If I'm ad advertiser, I want to show ads that make people smile. If I know I get a certain reaction with a specific ad, I can continue to show it, further linking pleasure and joy with my product. If I don't want to be targeted in this way, Apple needs to provide a way to opt out.

Do you show your teeth when you smile? No? "Maybe you need to try Crest whitening toothpaste®, now with enhanced whitening!"

No way these things happen. Would advertisers like it? Hell yeah they would. But there's no way Apple ever allows this. It's terrible UX. Apple prides itself on easy, beautiful, functional UX. If all of a sudden every 3rd app is telling you to "Pay attention to this ad" to continue watching your video, or "smile at this ad" to continue playing candy crush or whatever, people WILL leave the iPhone for other phones that can't do this. Apple has already said FaceID is the future for them, so they need it to be successful. There's no way Apple would risk losing iPhone users and letting FaceID become a flop because advertisers are tracking facial data like that. Any app that tries to pull this **** will get removed from the App Store immediately.
 
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Wowzers. Apple needs to put a privacy setting in place ASAP, to keep advertisers from being able to do things like "Smile at this ad to continue". Which advertisers can and will end up doing.
photoshop is your friend use it to change faces lol
 
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