problems with NTFS FOR MAC

wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
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on my brand new Mac Mini - I tried to enable the NTFS FOR MAC extension, which requires a re-start.

but it didn't start. got as far as the very end of the white line, but would not get to the start page!

so I tried SAFE MODE, assuming that works the same as in earlier OS systems (el capitan - holding the shift key down at startup) and to my disappointment, that did NOT work either ... gets to the end of the white line and then just hangs indefinitely.

so what to do next?

I assume that there's a RECOVERY MODE on Mojave? I will try that next. That will take me to DISK UTIL, but once I am in DISK UTIL, what can I do? How can I tell it to disable the NTFS FOR MAC extension?

Help!

thanks!

w
 

wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
13
I had no idea that the MacOS would boot with NTFS.
right, but I was not trying to boot from an NTFS drive. I was just trying to boot from a standard Mac drive, with the NTFS for Mac extension loaded.

The basic Mac OS can read an NTFS drive, but cannot write to one. The extension allows the system to both read and write to an NTFS formatted drive .Very useful, when it works!

Thank you!

W
 

Bartjes

macrumors newbie
Nov 28, 2018
28
13
Paris France
Strange. I have NTFS for Mac on my Mac Mini 2018 and i can read and write on my NTFS drive. Of course one cannot boot from it.
 

Dr. Stealth

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2004
812
721
SoCal-Surf City USA
I've run Paragon NTFS for Mac for many years and currently run it on my 2018 Mini.

I know this doesn't help you but I've never had a problem running it.

P.S. It also allows you format drives to NTFS using Disk Utility. Very handy extension.
 
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wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
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I've run Paragon NTFS for Mac for many years and currently run it on my 2018 Mini.

I know this doesn't help you but I've never had a problem running it.

P.S. It also allows you format drives to NTFS using Disk Utility. Very handy extension.
Thanks for the FYI! Trying to figure out if I can use disk utility to disable the extension at least temporarily. What version of the NTFS extension are you using? I have a fear I'm trying to use an older version of it that's not compatible with Mojave.
 

Dr. Stealth

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2004
812
721
SoCal-Surf City USA
Thanks for the FYI! Trying to figure out if I can use disk utility to disable the extension at least temporarily. What version of the NTFS extension are you using? I have a fear I'm trying to use an older version of it that's not compatible with Mojave.

Screen Shot 2018-12-15 at 4.36.31 PM.png


You may be right. Paragon does come out with updates on a fairly regular basis. I would imagine especially for the major release of Mojave.
 
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wfriedwald

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Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
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thank you! I guess NTFS FOR MAC is NOT backward compatible, meaning that you can not use the current Mac OS with an older version of the extension. Obviously! Or else why even bother to come up with an update to the extension?

anyhow, my system is still hanging on startup, and also on Safe mode start up.

Still have to try recovery mode. will run DISK UTIL, although not sure if that will do any good ... more likely will have to reinstall the whole OS! oh well. a new baby will always have growing pains.

now if I can NOT start up in recovery mode then I am in trouble - will be officially out of ideas - does anyone know if APPLE CARE is open on Sunday?

w
[doublepost=1544982275][/doublepost]Rats! ten minutes later, I am NOT able to start, even in recovery mode. Again it hangs up as soon as the white line reaches the end... nothing is happening after 10 minutes.

another possibility: I still have a back-up of my previous machine, saved on an external drive... is there a way to boot directly into the external drive. (the external drive has a back-up of a user and a system in El Capitan 10.11.6... will the Mini be able to boot using that OS?)

---- Still another update -

the system does NOT seem to want to restart using any of these options

basic "normal" startup
safe mode (shift key)
command + R key
or
option key

nothing seems to be working... better call Apple. hope that they'll help me with this.

w
 
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leo-tech

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2017
186
172
is there a way to boot directly into the external drive
Yes - adjust T2 chip settings to allow boot from external drive - install Mojave on external drive - select external drive in System Preferences - Startup Disk - then you can boot from it

the external drive has a back-up of a user and a system in El Capitan 10.11.6... will the Mini be able to boot using that OS?
No (Mac Mini 2018 only works with Mojave)

If you will manage to boot Mojave from the internal drive, and still need to get rid of some unwanted software, see if you can use this app:

KnockKnock
"Who's there?" See what's persistently installed on your Mac
https://objective-see.com/products/knockknock.html
 
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wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
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ah thanks! was on phone with Apple Care for about an hour, trying every possible way to startup, nothing worked, no combination of keys would get the Mini to actually startup (it always hangs after the white bar is finished loading.)

1. worth trying! I actually do have a MacBook air running Mojave (my older desktop is a 2008 MacBook air running El Capitan 10.11.6) so I will use the MacBook to try and install Mojave on an external USB3 drive.
(not sure what T2 settings are in this case...) although the problem is that I can't start no matter what so far. will try.

2. ah thanks again! very good to know. so to use an external drive as startup with the Mini, it would have to have a Mojave system installed.

thanks for clarifying on both counts.

w
 

wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
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PS: one last (hopefully) word:

I have the old NTFS FOR MAC installed on my MacBook Air, running Mojave. It does doesn't work. Instead, I get an error message saying it doesn't work and that I should pay and / or update (I actually did pay for it, it's not unlicensed, but that's another story).

Anyhow, I figured that would be the worst that would happen with the Mini, also running Mojave, that I would just get the same error message. little did I suspect it would completely crash the system, and prevent the Mac from starting up to begin with. (the NTFS FOR MAC extension HAS to be the culprit - it's the only change I made before I restarted, or attempted to restart).

thanks again!

w
 

leo-tech

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2017
186
172
Also, you can re-install macOS Mojave on your internal drive from scratch, for that you don't need external drive - only 16gb USB stick (preferably USB 3.1 or 3.0):

How to Make a Bootable MacOS Mojave Installer Drive
http://osxdaily.com/2018/09/26/make-macos-mojave-boot-usb-installer

UPDATE: When your Mac Mini 2018 is fully restored, it would be wise not to install any high risk software on internal drive - instead for testing and using such software you can install Mojave on external drive and boot from it as required, or install Mojave or some previous macOS version in VM (under VirtualBox, or Parallels, or VMware Workstation).
 
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wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
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so far no good... it won't start no matter what.

I didn't try booting from a little flash drive, however. I did try starting from a full-sized USB3 external, and that didn't work.

I do have a genius bar appointment this morning, so I'll probably stick to that. At least the Mini is considerably easier to transport than the 2008 Mac Pro, for which I needed a cab whenever it had to go anywhere (and was murder trying to move in my previous apartment, which didn't have an elevator ... had to carry it up and down the stairs in that huge box.)

thanks!

w
 

leo-tech

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2017
186
172
it won't start no matter what
Hmm, assuming the hardware is OK, and only Mojave was damaged by that NTFS software - your Mac Mini 2018 still should boot from properly prepared USB Mojave Installer Drive (for that you need to hold the Option key, as I recall) and allow you to re-install Mojave from scratch. Anyway, please update on progress, when you have more information from the Genius Bar.
 
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wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
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thank you!

last thought before I head down to Genius Town: I did have the Mini upgraded with third party RAM. I can't imagine that this has anything to do with the problem. I booted, rebooted, started, and re-started the mac successfully a bunch of times. The problem only began IMMEDIATELY after I tried to enable the NTFS FOR MAC extension. So I'm certain that has to be the problem. I hope that the Apple Genius people don't give me a problem about the RAM install .... we shall see!

thanks yet again.

w
 

leo-tech

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2017
186
172
I did have the Mini upgraded with third party RAM. I can't imagine that this has anything to do with the problem. I booted, rebooted, started, and re-started the mac successfully a bunch of times. The problem only began IMMEDIATELY after I tried to enable the NTFS FOR MAC extension.
I guess it is still possible that the 3rd party RAM is the real culprit, and not the NTFS sofwtare (i.e. the NTFS software only triggered some RAM related problem, otherwise some other software could do the same thing).
 
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wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
13
I guess it is still possible that the 3rd party RAM is the real culprit, and not the NTFS sofwtare (i.e. the NTFS software only triggered some RAM related problem, otherwise some other software could do the same thing).

Oh crap! Now you've got me seriously scared. On route downtown now. Will report later.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
19,453
6,750
OP wrote:
"last thought before I head down to Genius Town: I did have the Mini upgraded with third party RAM. I can't imagine that this has anything to do with the problem."

You'd better start "imagining" it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Apple genius bar guys are going to touch it with 3rd party RAM inside. They're going to say something like, "we're not permitted to do anything with this unless it has Apple-installed RAM in it".

Looks like you might have to open it up (again), and re-install the FACTORY ORIGINAL RAM.

ONE LAST THING before you take it anywhere:
Can you boot to INTERNET recovery? (NOT to "the recovery partition")
1. Press power on button
2. Hold down command-option-R and keep holding it down until the internet symbol appears
3. You may need to enter a wifi password (if it's connected via wifi).

If it won't even "get this far" -- sounds like a hardware problem inside.
And YES -- I think it's the RAM.

And if you do get it running again, I'd advise you to trash that NTFS extension, and not try using NTFS with it again... ;)
 

wfriedwald

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jan 1, 2017
227
13
hey, you guys are right on many levels...

1. cutting to the good news first, Apple was able to get it restarted. And yes, as Fishrrman suggested, they did it by booting to network recovery. They then reinstalled the entire OS.

2. they were somewhat hesitant about doing a victory dance, however. the Genius who fixed it kept saying, "this is what you do if it happens again..." he almost made it sound like a "when" rather than an "if." I hope not.

3. Do not fully understand what went wrong. That out-dated NTFS FOR MAC extension is a likely culprit, but complicating the matter is some kind of new Mac OS security protocol. I do not fully understand how it worked or what it does, but it was preventing the unit from booting from an external hard drive. (However, I heard from lots of guys who are running the current NTFS on the current Mac... but of course will think twice before I run that!)

4. my conclusion - will NOT re-migrate from the previous system (Mac Pro 2008 running El Capitan) - instead, for the time being I'll just install the programs that I need one at a time as I need them.

5. to that end, it would help if I could create a simple home network ... I may start a new thread for this, but if I'm running two Mac Desktops, a Mojave Mini and an El Capitan Pro, is it possible to connect them, just to move files back and forth between various drives?

6. thanks to Fishrrman: next time I will also try the internet recovery idea that you suggested. I'm not sure how the Genius did it, it was more complicated that restarting with specific keys held down...

that's my report for today!

w

PS: no one made a big deal (thank The Lord) about the extra RAM. However, I had the feeling that if the problem were to escalate, and the machine would have been exchanged, yes, the RAM would have been a major issue! so far it's not yet a problem. fingers crossed.
 
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CoastalOR

macrumors 68030
Jan 19, 2015
2,695
989
Oregon, USA
3. Do not fully understand what went wrong. ... complicating the matter is some kind of new Mac OS security protocol. I do not fully understand how it worked or what it does, but it was preventing the unit from booting from an external hard drive.

4. my conclusion - will NOT re-migrate from the previous system (Mac Pro 2008 running El Capitan) - instead, for the time being I'll just install the programs that I need one at a time as I need them.
3. Your problem with booting from external media is the Apple T2 Security Chip in the 2018 MM. You need to set it to allow booting from external media:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330

4. You are right. You can not boot from El Capitan with the 2018 MM. The minimum OS you can use is Mojave. I would not try anything older than 10.14.2.
 

leo-tech

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2017
186
172
Do not fully understand what went wrong. That out-dated NTFS FOR MAC extension is a likely culprit, but complicating the matter is some kind of new Mac OS security protocol. I do not fully understand how it worked or what it does, but it was preventing the unit from booting from an external hard drive.
More information on how T2 Security Chip works and what it does can be found here:

Everything you need to know about Apple's T2 chip in the 2018 Mac Mini and MacBook Air
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-about-apples-t2-chip-in-the-2018-macbook-pro

Apple T2 Security Chip Overview
https://www.apple.com/mac/docs/Apple_T2_Security_Chip_Overview.pdf
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
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More advice to the OP:

1. Boot to the recovery partition (hold down command-R at boot).
2. Open the "Startup Security Utility"
3. Set it for "No Security" and "Allow booting from external media". Your password may be required
4. Close the utility and reboot.

This "disables" the t2 functions (at least as much as they can be disabled through software).
It should result in fewer problems in the future.
 
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leo-tech

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2017
186
172
...it would help if I could create a simple home network ... I may start a new thread for this, but if I'm running two Mac Desktops, a Mojave Mini and an El Capitan Pro, is it possible to connect them, just to move files back and forth between various drives?
Computers on the same LAN should be visible/accessible one from another, you can see them in Finder under Shared (cross platform macOS-iOS-Windows-Linux using Samba file sharing protocol). For best speed, connect computers to your LAN router via Ethernet cables (as on WiFi file transfers are usually painfully slow).
 
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OneOfSun

macrumors newbie
May 14, 2019
1
0
hey, you guys are right on many levels...

1. cutting to the good news first, Apple was able to get it restarted. And yes, as Fishrrman suggested, they did it by booting to network recovery. They then reinstalled the entire OS.

2. they were somewhat hesitant about doing a victory dance, however. the Genius who fixed it kept saying, "this is what you do if it happens again..." he almost made it sound like a "when" rather than an "if." I hope not.

3. Do not fully understand what went wrong. That out-dated NTFS FOR MAC extension is a likely culprit, but complicating the matter is some kind of new Mac OS security protocol. I do not fully understand how it worked or what it does, but it was preventing the unit from booting from an external hard drive. (However, I heard from lots of guys who are running the current NTFS on the current Mac... but of course will think twice before I run that!)

4. my conclusion - will NOT re-migrate from the previous system (Mac Pro 2008 running El Capitan) - instead, for the time being I'll just install the programs that I need one at a time as I need them.

5. to that end, it would help if I could create a simple home network ... I may start a new thread for this, but if I'm running two Mac Desktops, a Mojave Mini and an El Capitan Pro, is it possible to connect them, just to move files back and forth between various drives?

6. thanks to Fishrrman: next time I will also try the internet recovery idea that you suggested. I'm not sure how the Genius did it, it was more complicated that restarting with specific keys held down...

that's my report for today!

w

PS: no one made a big deal (thank The Lord) about the extra RAM. However, I had the feeling that if the problem were to escalate, and the machine would have been exchanged, yes, the RAM would have been a major issue! so far it's not yet a problem. fingers crossed.
[doublepost=1557875990][/doublepost]I find myself in this exact space. I recieved a seagate external today and followed the mac install instructions. After the Paragon went to restart I couldnt make it to the OS. Freezes every time. Followed what I could here. So bummed that by folllowing the instructions on being penalized like this.
 
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