Product Problems and Residual Value

[Harlowgold1]

The one thing that I loved about being entrenched into the Apple ecosystem, is that my products maintained a respectful resale value. My pristine 2012 15" is still a well sought after laptop and it should bring some great pocket change when it is sold. However, we know about the keyboard issues with the 2016-17 computers. I have had three 2018 MBP's that all had problems (audio dropping, overheating, etc...). These issues are not specific to the Core i9 processor. Yes, new technology comes with its share of bugs, however this is beyond a "software patch" (at least for me). I would like to have a insightful and proactive conversation about this. Do you feel that these product issues will impact these current model?

 

[Fishrrman]

"I would like to have a insightful and proactive conversation about this. Do you feel that these product issues will impact these current model?"

Yes.
That's my "insight".

 

[Painter2002]

The one thing that I loved about being entrenched into the Apple ecosystem, is that my products maintained a respectful resale value. My pristine 2012 15" is still a well sought after laptop and it should bring some great pocket change when it is sold. However, we know about the keyboard issues with the 2016-17 computers. I have had three 2018 MBP's that all had problems (audio dropping, overheating, etc...). These issues are not specific to the Core i9 processor. Yes, new technology comes with its share of bugs, however this is beyond a "software patch" (at least for me). I would like to have a insightful and proactive conversation about this. Do you feel that these product issues will impact these current model?

In my opinion, while resale value is all nice and good to me, I am more concerned about getting my money’s worth in performance rather than resell value. After 6 years of use, I’d honestly be fine if I only got $200-300 out of a resale value, so long as I got my worth of usage out of the device.

But to answer your question, is the keyboard issue affecting resell values of the 2016-17 models? Yes. But is it a significant amount? I’d say no. The people complaining about the low resell values typically are people trying to sell their decked out 15” models with many of the expensive upgrades, and historically those have always lost ALOT of value, especially if you are trying to sell it only 1-2 years after it was purchased.

I don’t think the true value degradation caused by keyboard failures on the 2016/17 MBPs will be seen until after they are beginning to fall outside of the 4 year repair program. At that point it’s when people will not want to buy them because they are no longer eligible for keyboard repairs, and no one will want to pay $600 to repair a broken keyboard on a 4+ year old device.

 

[Audit13]

Buying technology today based on future residual/sale value is always a gamble. I used to based my cell phone purchases on potential resale value which caused me to get a phone I wasn't 100% sure I wanted.

Today, I just get what I want or need.

 

[Newtons Apple]

I know many people have never visited here and many not even know about the keyboard problems. It is us that are in the minority as most got their 2016-2017 MBPro is it might have worked without flaw.

That being said, it "could" effect the sale price but it is up to you who you sell to and at what price.

 

[Trolle]

The reason the 2012 has a great resale value is because of the problems with the 2016-2018 IMHO. Other than that, if Apple would have taken more time designing the 2018's (heat issue) it would have held it's value better. As it is, they have taken in the a$$ because of these keyboard and heat issues.

 

[Harlowgold1]

In my opinion, while resale value is all nice and good to me, I am more concerned about getting my money’s worth in performance rather than resell value. After 6 years of use, I’d honestly be fine if I only got $200-300 out of a resale value, so long as I got my worth of usage out of the device.

But to answer your question, is the keyboard issue affecting resell values of the 2016-17 models? Yes. But is it a significant amount? I’d say no. The people complaining about the low resell values typically are people trying to sell their decked out 15” models with many of the expensive upgrades, and historically those have always lost ALOT of value, especially if you are trying to sell it only 1-2 years after it was purchased.

I don’t think the true value degradation caused by keyboard failures on the 2016/17 MBPs will be seen until after they are beginning to fall outside of the 4 year repair program. At that point it’s when people will not want to buy them because they are no longer eligible for keyboard repairs, and no one will want to pay $600 to repair a broken keyboard on a 4+ year old device.

Excellent points Painter! I have to agree with you in that I want to true value to come in the form of longevity for me! Thank you!
[doublepost=1535395774][/doublepost]

I know many people have never visited here and many not even know about the keyboard problems. It is us that are in the minority as most got their 2016-2017 MBPro is it might have worked without flaw.

That being said, it "could" effect the sale price but it is up to you who you sell to and at what price.

That's true Newton! I was in the Apple store last week and I saw a couple looking at the Macbook anad the Air. I whispered to them that allegedly they were to updated soon. They didn't seem to care. As for me, I would wait : )

 

[maflynn]

Value is derived by the notion that the buyer is getting value for his money. The 2012 MBP (both the classic and retina) are good examples. The rMBP, because of the bold design, quality engineering, retina screen. Its quite a departure from the prior non-retina machines. The cMBP held its value because, it was the last upgradeable MBP.
I suspect 2015's values are holding up because of the issue of the 2016 and 2017. That is supply of the 2015 is depressed but the demand is up there. The demand for the 2016/2017 is low given the poor reputation of the keyboard.

Buying used, people want some peace of mind that the machine will last them x years, with the latest models that assurance isn't that strong, hence the lower values on the used market.

Only time will tell if the 2018 holds its values but I suspect not. I think the pinnacle of design, function and form, was the 2012 MBP. I really do like my 2018 model, its widely expensive, but I'm not totally convinced I'll get 6 years out of it, like I did with my 2012 MBP.

 

[Harlowgold1]

Value is derived by the notion that the buyer is getting value for his money. The 2012 MBP (both the classic and retina) are good examples. The rMBP, because of the bold design, quality engineering, retina screen. Its quite a departure from the prior non-retina machines. The cMBP held its value because, it was the last upgradeable MBP.
I suspect 2015's values are holding up because of the issue of the 2016 and 2017. That is supply of the 2015 is depressed but the demand is up there. The demand for the 2016/2017 is low given the poor reputation of the keyboard.

Buying used, people want some peace of mind that the machine will last them x years, with the latest models that assurance isn't that strong, hence the lower values on the used market.

Only time will tell if the 2018 holds its values but I suspect not. I think the pinnacle of design, function and form, was the 2012 MBP. I really do like my 2018 model, its widely expensive, but I'm not totally convinced I'll get 6 years out of it, like I did with my 2012 MBP.

You summed it up perfectly! "I think the pinnacle of design, function and form, was the 2012 MBP. I really do like my 2018 model, its widely expensive, but I'm not totally convinced I'll get 6 years out of it, like I did with my 2012 MBP"

 

[Newtons Apple]

That's true Newton! I was in the Apple store last week and I saw a couple looking at the Macbook anad the Air. I whispered to them that allegedly they were to updated soon. They didn't seem to care. As for me, I would wait : )

We sometimes forget that there are great advantages to the knowledge gained in our Forum! The majority have no idea what Apple is doing.

 

[Wags]

Few thoughts.
Retailers discounting machines up to $300 at end model year hurts too.
Lose even more with Apple’s pricing structure with upgrades ram and ssd.
Prices may go up but the used value does not proportionately
People feel forced into AppleCare and may lose on that also.

 

[Harlowgold1]

We sometimes forget that there are great advantages to the knowledge gained in our Forum! The majority have no idea what Apple is doing.

I agree Newton! I have to remember that there aren't a whole lot of people like us. Over the summer, I had a friend wanting to switch from Android to Apple. I told them that's great...but you may want to hold off until September. I must drive people crazy!

 

[baypharm]

Your notion that the 2016 models have keyboard issues may be slightly overstated. Not everyone who is a fan of Apple products even knows about MacRumors. I am sure there are lots of folks with 2016 models who have no keyboard issues of any kind. My 2016 MBP has performed flawlessly from the gate and still is. Knock on wood....

 

[SDColorado]

Value is derived by the notion that the buyer is getting value for his money. The 2012 MBP (both the classic and retina) are good examples. The rMBP, because of the bold design, quality engineering, retina screen. Its quite a departure from the prior non-retina machines. The cMBP held its value because, it was the last upgradeable MBP.
I suspect 2015's values are holding up because of the issue of the 2016 and 2017. That is supply of the 2015 is depressed but the demand is up there. The demand for the 2016/2017 is low given the poor reputation of the keyboard.

Buying used, people want some peace of mind that the machine will last them x years, with the latest models that assurance isn't that strong, hence the lower values on the used market.

Only time will tell if the 2018 holds its values but I suspect not. I think the pinnacle of design, function and form, was the 2012 MBP. I really do like my 2018 model, its widely expensive, but I'm not totally convinced I'll get 6 years out of it, like I did with my 2012 MBP.

You are probably on to something about the value of the machines vs their perceived value. I just sold a couple of my older Macs and the 2011 17" model sold for more than the 2013. That is likely due to the fact that the 2011 was the last of the 17" models and the last of the matte displays. But the funny thing was the Apple Store Trade In, only gave me the option of sending in the 17" for recycling.

I agree that I don't know if 6 years, particularly 6 trouble free years is possible with these new machines. I don't have the confidence in mine that I did in past models.

 

[maflynn]

You are probably on to something about the value of the machines vs their perceived value.

I'm not as dumb as I look

All those years of college and an accounting degree has finally paid off

I don't have the confidence in mine that I did in past models.

I didn't consider resale value in my purchase decision. I didn't when I looked at windows pcs and I didn't for the Mac. For me its a losing proposition, I'd rather get a machine that meets my needs now and the foreseeable future. Once it stops meeting my needs, I'll move on. As I stated, I think that will come a lot sooner then it did with my 2012 MBP.

 

[DjanSeriyAnaplian]

Your notion that the 2016 models have keyboard issues may be slightly overstated. Not everyone who is a fan of Apple products even knows about MacRumors. I am sure there are lots of folks with 2016 models who have no keyboard issues of any kind. My 2016 MBP has performed flawlessly from the gate and still is. Knock on wood....

This point is trotted out regularly and fails to appreciate the fact that Apple has publicly admitted it's a problem; they simply wouldn't have done so if it wasn't a significant issue.

 

[maflynn]

Not everyone who is a fan of Apple products even knows about MacRumors.

Agreed, but other tech sites, blogs and vlogs have mentioned it to a high degree, so its not a Macrumors thing.

I am sure there are lots of folks with 2016 models who have no keyboard issues of any kind. My 2016 MBP has performed flawlessly from the gate and still is. Knock on wood....

Agreed, but that doesn't mean its an insignificant issue. Truth be told, we have three class action lawsuits, and a repair program, you don't see that on insignificant issues.

 

[Gamer-Dad]

I never purchase a computer or even build a system with thoughts of resale value. This is the tech world and as soon as you purchase, something better, faster, and cheaper comes out right around the corner. Sorta like buying a car. As soon as you purchase the car and sign the paperwork, it drops 5-7K before even leaving the lot.

Unfortunately, while Apple products have usually always had higher resale values, this only really holds true for the lesser end products. Apples prices for upgrades are ridiculously overpriced, and the odds of recouping those costs with resale is negligent.

I touted in the problems thread a few days ago that my 2 week old MBP 15" has been problem free, and lo and behold last night when I opened it, I got my first KP attack. All that I had done different on Sunday before closing the lid was had my iPhone plugged into and my Nucleum adapter plugged in transferring a iMovie to a USB drive. Go figure...

All products have issues, but we are now all beta testers from the start of product cycles. The consumer demands new products, R&D gets passed along to us. It sucks, but we keep buying and these companies get richer and richer

Same thing can be said about my wife's Surface Book 2, which costs just as much as our MacBook Pro's. Can't tell you how many times she has went to tablet mode, only to plug it back into the keyboard for it not to find the GTX1060 graphics card. This has been ongoing for almost a year now and MS still can't fix the problem.

Even with the few quirks with the 2018 MBP's, I'd still rather have a MBP vs a Windows Laptop. The build quality of Windows laptops is getting better, but I still prefer the quality of Apple in general.

 

[maflynn]

Even with the few quirks with the 2018 MBP's, I'd still rather have a MBP vs a Windows Laptop. The build quality of Windows laptops is getting better, but I still prefer the quality of Apple in general.

For me, its also the Apple ecosystem. I think there are number of makers that are on par with Apple as of now, so then I have to come to terms of what intangibles does the macOS bring that windows doesn't. For me, there's a lot, which is why I dropped a truck load of cash for a MBP.