Wall, if you measure things that way, then Android's a P..O.S., right? Only one of the Android makers make money!
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Professionals Successfully Push Mac Pro to Absurd Limits With 558-Day Video Timeline in Final Cut Pro
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Wall, if you measure things that way, then Android's a P..O.S., right? Only one of the Android makers make money!
The Mac Pro seems like a really great computer, more modern and more powerful than my 5,1. It is amazing how many people here want to argue the point.
Very funny
This guy is exactly why the industry didn't see the iPod and the iPhone coming, and when they see what they did, they all imitate. I think of Ballmer saying, people won't spend $600 for a phone!
There's a thing you call this kind of thinking: reductionism. A computer is as much a collection of parts as human beings are. How much could you get for us on the chemical market? $20?
The first iMac was just a bunch of parts, too. And it didn't even have a floppy drive!
This guy is exactly why the industry didn't see the iPod and the iPhone coming, and when they see what they did, they all imitate. I think of Ballmer saying, people won't spend $600 for a phone!
There's a thing you call this kind of thinking: reductionism. A computer is as much a collection of parts as human beings are. How much could you get for us on the chemical market? $20?
The first iMac was just a bunch of parts, too. And it didn't even have a floppy drive!
No. 52.
You apparently are too young to distinguish what is real innovation vs just believing what Apple tells you is innovation.
Come back when you have a reality filter.
what about power consumption?
I've seen the back and forth opinions in this thread, but haven't seen another discussion, as part of the 'parts' discussion - what about the insanely low power consumption!?!?!
Compared to the PC equivalent or the previous Mac Pro versions, this tower is incredible at crunching what it can at lower power consumption.
Calculate that and add it into your cost savings of parts vs parts for your ROI (return on investment for those who aren't aware).
With today's continuing rise of energy costs, I think it's a huge factor.... or at least one will bring down the 'supposed' cost of a new Mac Pro vs it's apparent equivalent (which, in my opinion, doesn't really exist
Cheers,
Keebler
I've seen the back and forth opinions in this thread, but haven't seen another discussion, as part of the 'parts' discussion - what about the insanely low power consumption!?!?!
Compared to the PC equivalent or the previous Mac Pro versions, this tower is incredible at crunching what it can at lower power consumption.
Calculate that and add it into your cost savings of parts vs parts for your ROI (return on investment for those who aren't aware).
With today's continuing rise of energy costs, I think it's a huge factor.... or at least one will bring down the 'supposed' cost of a new Mac Pro vs it's apparent equivalent (which, in my opinion, doesn't really exist
Cheers,
Keebler
it was $500 fully subsidized and with a plan. apple for some reason lowered the price not long after. so apple was the one that looked silly and not ballmer.
the first imac was without a floppy drive but if i recall quite fairly priced for what it offered. my brother had a g3 powerbook and i recall him telling me about rumors of a new mac with same processor as his powerbook for a rather good price.
Apple must really be on to something to get these trolls out from under their rocks and bridges to pause their building of a 2000 dollar super computer long enough to argue a moot point that's already been proved by tech media and professionals to be impossible before the Mac Pro even delivered to the general public. But they are the self-proclaimed experts with soddering irons and acne at the ready!
Is this a computer using OSX and doing exactly the same function as before? YES. So - no innovation there.
Is this computer just doing a proprietary form of SSD internally. Yes, so no real innovation there.
Is the GPU set up nothing more than past ATI chipsets on a proprietary board(s). Yes - SO no real innovation there either.
Smaller is better - we see several devices over the year shoved into smaller form factor with limited "slots" ranging from computer inside keyboards to laptops to ITX cases. Sorry, no real innovation here.
There is nothing really new or innovative other than some parts being proprietary but dependent on present technology. TB2 is the upgrade path from TB1 and some might call that innovative yet Thunderbolt has already existed. Not one thing inside the case is really new. This has all been done before. Making CPUs that are more powerful and draw less power - that too has been going on a long long time.
We can agree it is a matter of how the term is used. I appreciate however your thoughts and response here but we will disagree on the basic notion of technical innovation as this Mac Pro might have some powerful components but not one of them is anything novel or really 'different.' If you wish to call every proprietary board, card, cable as innovation then pretty much every new computer out that uses the latest Intel chipsets, ATI or NV's GPU chipsets as being innovative. I'll accept your take on the term but I merely don't use it that way in context of technology. - Most items are nothing more than advancement of the same ol' technology.
Add: When Apple brought in Thunderbolt 1, I would consider that possibly innovative.
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Now I would like to see what Apple can make with absolutely no regard to price.
Step 1: Announce a preorder list for a limited edition, umm, Power Mac.
Step 2: Give Jonny and Dan an AMEX Black and some playtime.
Step 3: Call the first 5 people and tell them what you made and the cost. Give them 24 hours to decide, if they say no then move down the list.
Step 4: Repeat.
Seems your primary argument is anything related with computers in general is not innovation.
But these small form factor PC's don't have anywhere near the power of the new Mac Pro. If they did they would have to over come thermal issues and over heating because its much smaller size with fewer/smaller fans.
Innovation takes many forms. It does not have to use a brand new technology to be innovative. It can use existing technology and use it in a way that no one has before to make it faster/smaller/more efficient/useful.
Your last couple of sentences strike a chord. We just see things a bit differently. I don't chide people for using terms differently than I do but I really don't see much innovation with the nMP. If you consider "more power" as innovation we simply again see things a bit differently. Please do understand, I absolutely respect your POV on the topic.
The "More power" I'm talking about has to do with the limitations of putting a workstation class computer in the same size enclosure as the New Mac Pro. It has a lot of thermal issues to deal with. Not simply using a typical consumer grade home PC.
A small form factor PC is more likely using an integrated graphic card not suitable for workstation tasks and could not handle the full load of dual workstation graphics with out over heating. As you meantioned before:
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Not really. Many great artists and musicians and writers are broke. Sometimes they go together and sometimes not. Money comes from luck and marketing.
Also we see people make loads of money by selling "old" products like gasoline or hamburgers.
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I am confused by your narrative. Money is what is generated when someone or something (a corporation) creates something of value.
I've seen the back and forth opinions in this thread, but haven't seen another discussion, as part of the 'parts' discussion - what about the insanely low power consumption!?!?!
Compared to the PC equivalent or the previous Mac Pro versions, this tower is incredible at crunching what it can at lower power consumption.
Calculate that and add it into your cost savings of parts vs parts for your ROI (return on investment for those who aren't aware).
With today's continuing rise of energy costs, I think it's a huge factor.... or at least one will bring down the 'supposed' cost of a new Mac Pro vs it's apparent equivalent (which, in my opinion, doesn't really exist
Cheers,
Keebler
What you've forgotten is that the Mac Pro requires significantly more peripherals than a normal desktop.
If you add the inefficiencies of all the external enclosures things aren't looking so good are they and let's be honest. There will be peripherals. Lots.
Four extra hard drives requires at least one additional box with its power supply and not forgetting the hardware costs of this box and packaging and green footprint of the whole setup.
ROI might look a little different now?
I have quite a few friends who are gamers (I am not at any level) that have put together some pretty impressive systems in smaller cases as they want them to be portable. We are talking fairly high end dual GPU, higher end CPU (not Xeon) and then some. Some use "wind tunnel" within the typical shaped boxes that serve a similar purpose as the shape of the nMP.
There are indirect savings though. Normal expansion cards are cheaper than thunder bolt devices and adapters. And it won't be necessary to upgrade the whole machine to change the video cards when they're no longer competitive.
Something like that would sell for a price in the six figures. Make it for charity (like a project red) and that figure won't start with a 1.
I find it pretty laughable how many people support the nMP through wrong statements and non-existent tech knowledge. You can't build a better PC for less? Oh yes you can! Most people think that the D700 are workstation grade GPUs, when in fact they're not. They are just 7970s with 6GB VRAM. Big deal. OS X per se can't use SLI or Crossfire aswell (only on export) - another decent screw up, when you think Apple was "so nice" building 2 GPUs in this "workstation" grade computer. Also, there are no FirePro drivers for OS X, they only exist on Win and Linux. Then we have a 450w PSU. For 2(!) GPUs and a Xeon CPU. No wonder clock rates of both CPU und GPU go way down and are limited to low end grade performance, but yeah, Apple buyers don't care about performance, only about design.
Thunderbolt 2 is the best feauture you can think of? Way slower than PCIe 3.0 and 4.0 is coming in 1-2 years. Again, no performance, just style. And a lot of cables on the table. PCIe SSD? Buy 2x500GB 840Pro from Samsung, put them in Raid 0. Additionally to the same performance, you can add multiple SSDs later. With the nMP? Ofc not, you're screwed again.
Seriously, I own the "mobile garbage" part of Apple products, like a MacBook Air and an iPhone 4s, but when it comes to video editing performance (the area I work in professionally) Apple screwed us big time with the nMP. I'd love to see a "pro-grade" machine in Apple's portfolio, but it seems this time has passed, unfortunately. :/
Thunderbolt 2 is the best feauture you can think of? Way slower than PCIe 3.0 and 4.0 is coming in 1-2 years. Again, no performance, just style. And a lot of cables on the table. PCIe SSD? Buy 2x500GB 840Pro from Samsung, put them in Raid 0. Additionally to the same performance, you can add multiple SSDs later. With the nMP? Ofc not, you're screwed again.
Seriously, I own the "mobile garbage" part of Apple products, like a MacBook Air and an iPhone 4s, but when it comes to video editing performance (the area I work in professionally) Apple screwed us big time with the nMP. I'd love to see a "pro-grade" machine in Apple's portfolio, but it seems this time has passed, unfortunately. :/